USC Fratboy Email Calls Women “Targets;” Declares “Giving Them A Name Is Pointless”

[one_voice]

In another “isolated incident” involving a college fraternity advocating misogyny of the highest order, an email has been circulating around the campus of the University of Southern California that, at first blush, would appear to be a tasteless joke. Unfortunately this does not seem to be the case and, as the email lists the Kappa Sigma fraternity as its source, is under investigation by the Kappa Sigma Fraternity nationals.

The author of the email celebrates the concept of getting a woman drunk for the purposes of taking advantage of her. He calls it “loop n’ doop” and cautions potential “cocksmen” to “Be careful with loop n’ doops, because too much loop and they will get sick and be useless entities.” Entities. Not people. Entities.

The worst part about this email, to me at least, is that the author is fully aware of what rape culture is and advises his fellow cretins on how to use it to their advantage:

Non-consent and rape are two different things. There is a fine line, so make sure not to cross it.

When utilizing the loop power of 4 Lokos, be careful. A target on one 4 Loko is putting the odds in your favor of getting some pie. A target on two 4 Lokos is going to get sick and pass out. A target on three 4 Lokos leads to instances of litigation and lawsuits. Terms like “sexual assault” seem to be used in this case.

I would love to say “He thinks there’s no difference between non-consent and rape? Boy, is he in for a surprise when his inevitable court date comes up!” But I can’t and this piece of dirt knows it. You see, in rape culture, it’s possible for non-consensual sex to NOT be rape. Was the woman drinking? On drugs? Was she dressed like a whore? Well, then she must have wanted it on some level so it can’t possibly be rape even if she was screaming and crying the whole time. See how this works? The author certainly does.

*snip*

Much more at link, including the full sick repulsive email.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/01/07/usc-fratboy-email-calls-women-targets-declares-giving-them-a-name-is-pointless/

[seabeyond]

1. it is a free for all on women. here on du, too. sexism and misogyny has gotten a thumbs up.

this is just one more in a long line of threads

time for me to go away.

it is a sad place. not your OP. thanks for calling attention, once again, to the really sick, fuckin sick, way we are going today.

[dana_b]

4. ....

[one_voice]

6. Seems like we're going backward...

You wouldn't know that we had a woman run for president when you read stuff like this. It's beyond sick, someone like this isn't right in the noodle. You can't think like this and not have some kind of mental defect. Unless you believe there's evil real evil out there. Doing the crap he wrote about IS evil or a mental thing.

I have 3 brothers, my dad would have kicked their asses if they even hinted at anything close to this. They were raised to respect women, same with my son and my nephews. My son treats women/his girlfriend the way he sees his father treat me, and his pop pop treat his mom mom and so on.

Have to say she's a lucky girl.

[seabeyond]

13. i have been saying for too long that we are, and why, and it is a huge issue. we address it or we

dont. we are choosing not to address. we are seeing the very same thing on du. it is the "little" of the whole.

look at wht the popular book and movie is drawing in both genders. tattoo girl. all the advertising is thru sexual objectification/dehumanizing. the scenes editor told author to add, just porn with hot young things to a middle age mediocre man. and a long graphic rape scene for titillation of the audience.

rape porn is the rage for our young men. commons at colleges have the guys with lap tops playing their hardcore porn making it an hostile environment for the women.

we have the repug discussing women like cattle

and our dem men treating them like playthings

our sports dude raping them and becoming heros

a 15 yr old girl puts a picture up and men type how they want to rape her

a forum that is special from du rules here on du, allowing bullying and sexism.

juries with people that say no censorship and even if someone breaks the rules, let it stand so everyone will see.

men getting off on girls in grocery stores excited for rest of day and blood flowing.

another thread about womens sexuality inherently about money

and more

and if a woman dares to speak out.... are you ready, hysterical, pearl clutcher, asexual, anti sex, prude, jealous, ugly, swooning on a couch and on and on

where are he threads demeaning the men?

[one_voice]

24. I have seen a trend...

where men almost seem bitter and resentful because of sexual harassment laws. Jesus, just look at what Ron Paul said...wth?

You've got Rick Santorum, saying women shouldn't work, but should stay home and take care of the kids. He believes that women working is one of the reasons for so much divorce. Look at his stance on birth control and abortion. He's all but saying women need someone to make their decisions, to take care of them.

I wish more men that have a voice...athletes, entertainers, etc would really speak out against this kind of stuff.

I don't know what's going on...

[Fawke Em]

48. What forum is that?

"...a forum that is special from du rules here on du, allowing bullying and sexism."

If this is true, how can we petition to fix this problem?

[seabeyond]

49. that has already played out and we can't. it is what it is. nt

[mistertrickster]

54. Of course, there's also this:

The Duke lacrosse case is a common name given to a criminal investigation into a 2006 false accusation of rape made against three members of the men's lacrosse team at Duke University in Durham, North Carolina. The fallout from the case's resolution led to, among other things, the disbarment of lead prosecutor Mike Nifong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_lacrosse_case

[seabeyond]

58. what does that have to do with this issue? divert to talk about all the zillion of men being falsely

accused.

well, there we go. there is no problem at all then. we can all shut up now.

[mistertrickster]

59. What I posted was entirely factual.

The conclusion you drew was entirely your own.

My point is that if we really lived in a "rape culture," rape wouldn't even be a crime. Take for instance, lynching blacks before Civil Rights--racism was so ingrained that lynching wasn't even prosecuted. When the mutilated body of Emmett Till washed up in Mississippi in 1955, the jury found the sadistic killers "not guilty." Medgar Evers was shot in the back and his cowardly murderer was widely known, and not brought to trial until thirty years later. The church bombing in Birmingham that killed four little girls was never solved and was never really investigated.

Rape is illegal, ethically unacceptable and morally indefensible. No one makes light of it except a tiny benighted minority.

According to this website http://www.mincava.umn.edu/documents/sexoff/sexoff.html, "On a given day about 234,000 offenders convicted of rape or sexual assault are under the care, custody, or control of corrections agencies. About 60% of these sex offenders are under conditional supervision in the community."

This sounds to me like sex crimes are taken very seriously by our society . . . not at all as though we live in a "rape culture."

Using a sketchy e-mail without provenance and touting it on the internet as an example of "what men generally and what frat boys specifically think about women" is just not good science.

But it does whip up the hysteria here on old DU . . .

[seabeyond]

60. you are wrong. nt

[zappaman]

65. you are right. n/t

[BlancheSplanchnik]

95. red herring. The subject is, "dehumanizing women"

"False rape reports" are a different subject. Changing the subject does not constitute a win.

Please post appropriately.

[redqueen]

131. But... what about the men!

I'm serious. We really should start using MRA bingo cards here.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

134. What's "MRA"?

sorry to be dense!

[redqueen]

135. Men's Rights Advocates

Kinda like white people who claim 'reverse racism' is a serious problem, only worse, cause at least racism is widely acknowledged and socially unacceptable.

They're too stupid to realize their problems are caused by patriarchy and not women. And too idiotic to figure out that feminists aren't attacking 'all men' because women can advocate for the patriarchy as well as men can. They all have giant chips on their shoulders and some of them are downright vicious.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

136. Ohhhhhhhh DUHHHHHHH

Unbelievable, aren't they.

hey I gotta run, they expect me to work.

[redqueen]

138. Hah yes...

have fun.

[mistertrickster]

61. We're not going backwards. Sex crimes are down.

Women in the 60's used to get expelled from college for reporting rape routinely.

Things are much better than they used to be.

That doesn't mean that our society can't do better, but to say "we're going backwards" is contrary to all evidence.

[seabeyond]

64. again, i disagree, in some respects.... nt

[zappaman]

66. you are right. n/t

[seabeyond]

71. not that there is concern a man does this, but your need to dismiss women, again.

jumping in this thread.

[zappaman]

72. jumping in cuz I agree

could care less about the sex of a poster.
you seem to.
seems sexist to me.

[seabeyond]

73. i have seen you dismiss sexist and misogynist behavior in every post. no one should bother with

interaction. it is a waste of time, with you.

[Occulus]

81. I've seen you display open misandry in nearly every thread on this subject.

You were pissing and moaning about the mere fact of the men's group before DU3 ever went live ("a place for the boys to play.... lol..." I think is what you said, or something very like it). This, in spite of the fact that there are more explicitly and specifically women's groups on DU than there are men's groups.

As a member of DU for several years running, I can state with total certainty that, apart from obvious trolls, you are, in fact, the most sexist person I've ever seen on DU. That's saying quite a lot, actually, because if I were to say about women the things I've seen you say about men, I'd have long since been served my pizza.

[seabeyond]

82. i supported the mens forum on du2. comtec actively went after that forum

and i supported him all the way thru and afterwards.

[Occulus]

83. Then why'd you complain about it for DU3?

That's what you did and you know it.

[seabeyond]

85. i didnt complain about the mens forum. you might be getting confused with a different

issue.

[Occulus]

89. Nope.

[seabeyond]

91. nope? you accuse, know for a fact, but you cant clue me in what you are accusing me of?

really?

[Occulus]

96. I already gave what I remember to be very close to a direct quote.

I can't help you see beyond that. I'm sorry.

[seabeyond]

97. the issue i had before du3 opened was no moderators and a jury system. that has nothing to do with

the mens forum. i still have issues with no moderators and the jury system. for ALL the 'isms in du and civility. i have posts up. i have them in meta. go at it haus.

you were wrong. you pulled out a little piece of nothing and create a huge accusation. and you were wrong. see beyond that.

[Occulus]

104. I think the DU3 preview threads, the testing ones, are gone.

This was during that period.

I did find this while I was searching, though.

as for "for ALL the 'isms in du and civility. i have posts up. i have them in meta. go at it haus."

Who the what the fuck?

[seabeyond]

105. ya. so?

The isms, racism,sexism, homophobia. These groups are the ones I am concerned about. And other isms. And civility.

I have threads in meta forum about this issue.

Now, YOU were WRONG.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

94. actually, he's not.

Please see my post, #77.

[one_voice]

67. I wasn't just talking about sex...

crimes. I guess you don't know about the game boys play where they keep notebooks with girls names in them and rate them as well as share them with their friends. There are other examples I could use, but you seem intent on defending this/making less than it is and/or suggesting this isn't a real email--yes I've read all your comments here. You're very defensive of this poor persecuted boy.

Suffice it to say, I'm glad you're not a male in my family.

Have a nice evening.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

77. "Sex crimes down"--NOT according to MY sources. Please update your information

Most Violent Crimes Down, Sex Crimes Up In NYC
December 28, 2011 7:43 PM

NEW YORK (CBSNewYork) - Mayor Michael Bloomberg is closing out 2011 by touting how safe the Big Apple is, announcing near record safety levels were maintained in this year.
<snip>
It’s the 10th consecutive year the city has seen fewer than 600 murders in a year since 1960. There were just over 500 this year.

<snip---much further down in the article, separate from Bloomberg's emphasis on dropping crime rates, is this, emphasis mine:>
Sex assaults, rapes, and domestic violence, however, are on the rise.

“We see an increase in rape. We see an increase in sexual assault,” said NYPD Commissioner Ray Kelly. “Obviously it’s something we are concerned about.”

So far this year, 1,380 rapes have been reported, which is a a 3-percent increase over last year. And just over 3,000 misdeameanor sex crimes have been logged, a 4-percent increase. http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/12/28/mayor-bloomberg-touts-nycs-safety-record/

Another report, from Scotland:

Sex crimes up despite sharp fall in recorded crime
New figures show overall decrease in crime of 10% in last year - but crimes such as rape are on the up.

Violent crime has dropped by 11% in the last year - but sex offences such as rape are up, according to figures released on Tuesday.

The Recorded Crime in Scotland figures for 2009-10, published by Scotland's Chief Statistician, show an overall decrease of 10% in crimes committed over the last year.

07 September 2010 10:40 GMT http://news.stv.tv/scotland/196082-sex-crimes-up-despite-sharp-fall-in-recorded-crime/

Research article, Dr. Tom O'Connor

PATTERNS AND TRENDS IN VIOLENT CRIME
Wicked people exist. Character is more often wicked than errant. --(James Q. Wilson)
The one thing they have in common is the mixture of a sexual urge with the desire to dominate, pursue, capture, pressure, cajole, bully, seduce, or "persuade" another person to come around to "their" way of thinking -- that it is the offender's right to hunt and hound their prey (Box 1983). These vile predators firmly believe their victims will eventually come around to believing that satisfaction of their pleasure is also their victim's pleasure. The consensus of most experts is that, in 80 to 85 percent of all rape cases, the victim knows the defendant, and this is the factor that makes this an underreported crime.

As psychologically intriguing as the study of sexual offending is, the fact is we aren't really sure whether known sex offenders are similar to those who go undetected. This is a consequence of the low reporting rate for sexual assaults. Victims only report a small fraction of offenses for many reasons: "It was a private matter"; "didn't think anything could be done"; or "afraid of reprisal from offender." It seems reasonable to assert that what we do know is based on socially inept or careless offenders. Over time, rape rates have fluctuated wildly, but there is a long-term upward trend. Periods with low rates include the 1930s and 1950s. Every other decade has seen high rates, with the most dramatic increases from 1965 to 1995. Currently, about 450,000 rapes or attempted rapes occur every year in America, and the figures for sex offenses (other than prostitution) are about two to three times higher than that. These high official figures mean the United States has the highest sex offense rates in the world. Rwanda is the only other country to come close, and the U.S. is still four times higher than it. Citation: O'Connor, T. (2011). "Patterns and Trends in Violent Crime," http://www.drtomoconnor.com/3220/3220lect03a.htm

Note in the above excerpt that currently, about 450,000 rapes or attempted rapes occur every year in America, and the figures for sex offenses (other than prostitution) are about two to three times higher than that.---AND THIS IS IN SPITE OF THE FACT THAT RAPE IS HIGHLY UNDER_REPORTED.

[redqueen]

88. I'll definitely be checking back

to see what sources he provides to back up his claims.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

92. I have a feeling he won't reply

but hey, I could be wrong.

He's a College Professor, after all.

[mistertrickster]

113. Ridiculing my profession is not fair.

Last edited Mon Jan 9, 2012, 04:09 PM - Edit history (1)

Also it looks as though your feeling was incorrect as well, heigh ho.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

128. I wasn't ridiculing your profession. I was ridiculing *you*....

and your petulant objection that "ridiculing your profession is not fair".


I have worked in college and university classrooms for 28 years, interpreting lectures, meetings and a variety of other events.
I have become familiar with a wide spectrum of teaching styles and personalities.
There are excellent professors, experts in their field, who love the material, and respect their students.

Then at the other extreme are the arrogant people who are more interested in waving their ego about, do not encourage student discussion, belittle some, favor others, attack disagreement, and seek out weaker personalities aiming to puff themselves up.

Judging by your behavior here, and knowing that peoples' behavior is consistent and a guide to their character, I can deduce what kind of professor you are.

Your posts in this thread have been consistently dismissive of the issue at hand, insinuating that the offensive email is a hoax, referring sneeringly to "rape culture", replying smugly, purposely trying to provoke female posters here.

Your methods include throwing in red herring topics meant as a smokescreen for your arrogant superiority--clearly, not in the spirit of cooperative discussion. Looking at the number of offenses, the census figures you provided show a continuing decrease in Murder and Robbery with a significantly lower final figure at the last finding, 2009.

Forcible Rape and Aggravated Assault however are not as clear, both with a large spike in 1990.
Agg. Assault then trends downward, but still ending higher in 2009 than it started in 1980.
Forcible Rape, however, trends down briefly after the 1990 spike but then then rises again, peaking in 1995. After this second peak, it then trends down again, but still ends higher in 2009 than it started in 1980.

As you can see, these figures are deceptive and do not support your claim that rape rates are down. Furthermore, the census figures refer to "Forcible Rape", a categorization that the FBI has just very recently acknowledged is a flawed definition of rape, excluding as it does many types of assaults that do qualify as rape.

Including rapes involving deliberate introduction of drugs and or alcohol in order to make the woman vulnerable, as delineated in the OP email. The census does not even include other types of sexual assault or domestic violence--these ARE included in the sources that I referenced in another post, and drive the already high numbers up further.

So, you see, I was not avoiding a reply---it's just that a thoughtful in depth response takes much longer than a casual poo-fling. (Well, actually, poo-fling isn't the best description. Maybe the thrill is more like a quick monkey slap.)

[mistertrickster]

127. I guess silence is easier than a simple "you were right." nt

[BlancheSplanchnik]

129. Actually, my life got in the way--halfway through my reply to you too.

surprisingly, you are not the uppermost issue on my mind.

So, here is the reply you're thinking I've run away from. http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002135290#post128

It took me awhile, since it's much more effort to compose a comprehensive response than to post drive-bys.

[mistertrickster]

140. My God, if snark were money, you'd be a billionaire. You're blocked. nt

[BlancheSplanchnik]

149. well, for anyone *else* reading then....

confident rebuttal ≠ snark, at least in honest, respectful dialogue.

All I did was stand up to someone who thinks himself a smooth operator. You know...expose someone's tricky tricks for what they are.




it's especially amusing that I'm poutragedly being accused of snark, when you yourself soak your every post with it, even without provocation.

I guess someone doesn't like getting pwned---by a gurrrl



(Do you realize you're staging a tantrum and blocking me before responding to my rebuttal of your census figures and your general behavior here? You only just finished snarking at me today, for not replying expeditiously. HOW CONVENIENT.)

[mistertrickster]

116. see the following

http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0306.pdf

[mistertrickster]

126. I'll definitely be checking back too, lol. nt

[redqueen]

132. LOL indeed.

Blanche cared enough to explain things to you.

Comprehension. It's a good thing.

[mistertrickster]

142. You know, clever sounding personal insults

don't make up for your getting your ass handed to you on the facts.

[mistertrickster]

115. How about the US census for "updating my sources"?

http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0306.pdf

According to this site, rapes per 100,000 people went down from 37 to 29 pretty steadily.

But that just shows that your consciousness raising campaign is working. And I say that without irony.

[boston bean]

70. this guy should have lost his job.

[chrisa]

63. Don't leave! Then they win. :-(

[Suich]

2. His parents must be very proud.

[CurtEastPoint]

3. I was just thinking that someone should send that email to his parents.

smarmy little jerk

[RainDog]

5. hope the guy gets kicked out of USC nt/

and his stupid frat.

I hate fraternities. they're asshole factories.

[petronius]

7. Again!? This text sounds very familiar - is this an old report, or did USC

completely fail to squash it the first time around?

Or perhaps it wasn't at USC last time, and this asshole picked it up from the earlier event?

[Tunkamerica]

19. 4 years

the end of the post clarifies

[mistertrickster]

55. How do we know this is even a real e-mail message?

Last edited Sun Jan 8, 2012, 06:13 PM - Edit history (1)

I mean, it's convenient for folks that want to rail about a "rape culture," granted.

But what would be the point of sending these supposed "tips"? To tell the pledges how to get laid?

It doesn't pass the smell test to me . . .

Also, I teach in college. If I see anyone viewing pornography in any of our buildings on campus, they would be immediately reported to security and called on the carpet with a dean. If it happened in my class, they would be expelled from the class.

I spend a lot of time on my college campus and others nearby, and I've never seen this going on. Nor would I tolerate it.

On edit: you know what really rings false about this e-mail? The word cocksman. I think my dad used that word back in the 50's. I haven't heard that for about forty years. Is that what the hip-hop millennial generation uses these days? News to me . . .

[BlancheSplanchnik]

79. Haven't heard that term in 40 years? Time to update your information:

Urban Dictionary

4. Cocksman 114 up, 74 down
A male that is a user of women. Simular to a gigolo but does not neccesarily rely on a monetary goal. For no other reason than conquests of women closely surrounding this persons life are his driving force.
That John gets all the women in the office. What a Cocksman!
buy cocksman mugs & shirts
gigolo pimp stud player rockstar
by TOMMY L Sep 29, 2006 share this add a video
6. cocksman 10 up, 8 down
A man who thinks with his cock first, and his head second.
Why are you surprised that all I think about is sex? I'm not going to apologize. I'm a cocksman!
buy cocksman mugs & shirts
cock's man cocks man gigolo stud player casanova baller
by khrazy5150 Jul 16, 2010 share this add a video
7. cocksman 48 up, 82 down
A term, popularized by Owen Wilson in the movie; "Wedding Crashers", to identify a man who lives to have sex, usually in the absence of real love. Tends to think with his penis.
"I tried to practice abstinence for a period of time, but I gave up. There are too many sexy ladies, and I'm a cocksman at heart."
buy cocksman mugs & shirts
sex sex-addict sow your oats live to get laid fuck and run.
by Lauren M Jan 19, 2007 share this add a video

A Blog called A GUIDE TO GOOD COCKSMANSHIP:

A GUIDE TO GOOD COCKSMANSHIP
MANY HAVE UNSUCCESSFULLY ATTEMPTED TO DEFINE, IN A SIMPLE SENTENCE OR TWO, WHAT IT MEANS TO BE A COCKSMAN. WHILE I WISH THE MEANING OF COCKSMANSHIP COULD BE ACCURATELY CONVEYED WITH SO FEW WORDS, IT IS, QUITE SIMPLY, IMPOSSIBLE. AS A RESULT, I HAVE CREATED THIS BLOG, WHICH SHALL SERVE AS A GUIDE FOR BOTH THE COCKSMAN AND THOSE WHO WISH TO UNDERSTAND HIS WAYS.

THURSDAY, JULY 24, 2008

The Cocksman Never Stops Exploring
The Cocksman recognizes that vaginas can be found all over the world in a variety of situations and he must press his way into that new vaginal territory. The Cocksman knows that different holders of vaginas are found in a large assortment of not only areas, but also circumstances. As previously stated, The Cocksman values diversity, and the chance to interact with a new species of vagina makes his heart quiver. The Cocksman recognizes it is his duty to pursue these vaginas as if they were filled with sunshine and candy canes. Fight on, Cocksmen!
http://cocksmanship.blogspot.com/

Currently, Zazzle also has a T-shirt: I can't help it, I'm a COCKSMAN (I suppose no one would admit to buying this in size SMALL!!)

[Occulus]

98. I grew up in the country in MI

SW. I'm 36.

I have never, not once in my life until now heard the term 'cocksman'. Interestingly, and at the same time completely irrelevant to the conversation, the word cocksman is underlined as a misspelling in the text entry box in this Firefox Nightly build 12.0a1, yet the word sequence 'fuck shit tits faggot dyke nigger spic' is apparently spelled correctly. Kind of says something about the word 'cocksman', doesn't it?

Until you defined it, the word 'cocksman' was unknown to me.

I think the poster you're responding to may be right.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

103. hey, I was just citing popular, contemporary websites,

proving it IS in current usage.

It caught on after being used in the movie, "Wedding Crashers"

&feature=colike

Just because you personally haven't heard it doesn't mean it's an antiquated, out of use term.

So, YOU haven't heard it...so what are you trying to claim here? That it therefore does not exist? And because the spell check flags it, it must therefore not be an actual word?

The poster who originally claimed the email in question must be fake, because he hadn't heard the word in 40 years must be correct because....you haven't heard this word?

That's some pretty fatuous argument, there.

Ebaum's World, YouTube, TheMen'sRoom blog....it's not hard difficult to find the word cocksman in actual usage. Just google it; you'll find some pretty hellaciously pukalicious misogyny too. ("hellaciously" is getting flagged by spellcheck, by the way. In fact, "spellcheck" is getting flagged by spellcheck!)

I provided dated links proving it is in current usage, yet you argue with me.

O rly?

[Occulus]

107. Good God, that's an over-the-top response

I say the poster you are responding to may be right and you jump down my throat.

Nobody during my childhood, adolescence, and adulthood has ever used the word "cocksman" in my presence and I've never once even read it in print until now. I'm not arguing with you; I'm making a statement of fact from my own memory.

It's interesting you see that as an attack, though.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

109. You think someone correcting your misperception is an attack?

You think being provided with information counter to your beliefs is "jumping down your throat"?

You have an need to respond by tearing me down, rather than process new information, or participate in fair discussion?

That's interesting....are you like this with everyone?

[virgogal]

8. Written by a pig,and other than that words fail me.

[a kennedy]

14. and other "pigs" are listening and learning from him....

[Occulus]

101. And THAT *is* true.

The only 'explanation' I have for this as a man who was "that age" once is that the little head is thinking for the big head.

It's still vile behavior, and it's recurrent nature in these organizations pulls me in the direction of abolishing both fraternities and sororities entirely. School spirit is fine, and should be to a point encouraged, but these organizations seem to all too 'occasionally' foster bad behavior now and nobody seems to be able to get a reliable handle on it.

[seabeyond]

111. only 'explanation' ... "that age" once is that the little head is thinking for the big head.

i think it is comments like this that feed it. as if the all pwerful little head....

yes, you went into the vile of the man. the first sentence is troublesome.

[ProfessionalLeftist]

9. Well that's disgusting . .

. ..unnerving, actually. Question: if we want to stop rape, domestic violence, and the epidemic of human rights abuses against women in the U.S. - shouldn't this (or before they even get to college) be where to start - ie: at its SOURCE?

[iverglas]

10. I fear

that some of our stalwart male members are too busy drooling over beauty pageant contestants to see this thread and post the, um, outrage they would surely post if they saw it ...

[seabeyond]

17. they are not even drooling over her. they are making comments to degrade, dehumanize women

because they can and they are only using her and that thread to do it.

[Peregrine Took]

11. I bet he comes from a "prominent" rethug family.

Did they ever find out who the little shite was?

[seabeyond]

18. why, because this is not a male issue, just a repug male issue? really?

look around you buddy at our progressive du board.

[Tunkamerica]

23. what board are you reading?

I've never read anything even remotely like this on DU. You may misogyny here but you are being disingenuous implying that anything like the email in the OP gets posted here.

[seabeyond]

25. no i was not saying rape. yes i was saying misogyny. thank you for allowing me to clarify. nt

[Occulus]

87. "male issue"

What was that?

[seabeyond]

90. did you read post 25 or just conveniently ignoring? nt

[Occulus]

99. Oh, I read it, all right.

I failed my saving throw vs. goalpost and it got up and walked away.

[seabeyond]

100. wow. read it and ignored it. bully for you. nt

[Occulus]

102. Let's go back for a second

"why, because this is not a male issue"

What's "this"? The poster you initially responded to was talking about the subject of the OP- in this case, a vile and degrading piece of fratboy hormonal emission in text that the poster responded with a "is it connected to a Republican 'Family'" insinuation. You immediately pulled it over to misogyny on this board, specifically.

The goalpost got up and walked away.

[seabeyond]

106. lets not. you have wasted too much time on your garbage. nt

[Raine]

12. I'm curious, I wonder what kind of relationship

he has with his mother. I'm guessing she weaned him or potty trained him way too soon.

[Ecumenist]

16. OMG, really?? If someone did this to me, being the person I am today?

Pray for his ass because I would rip his f*^&%(ng d*ck with my bare hands and beat the rest of him to death with it. So help me God.

[Ecumenist]

20. This sumbitch is acting like there's no such thing as AIDS

His Raw Dog comment and telling them the the wrost that could happen would be having to visit the clinic. that getting a shot of penicillin is "not that bad" , REALLY? WTF is wrong with some people?

[Swede]

21. What I don't get is that these guys have female family members.

Would they want a sister,cousin,or niece violated like this?

[seabeyond]

26. college chant ... no means yes. gang rape porn a favorite. where does sisters, mothers

or any other female, being a human being come into the equation. female is perpetrated as a tool for males entertainment everywhere in our life today. why would we be surprised if our boys are desensitized to such an extent that woman are to be used, solely for their pleasure.

i am surprised at the surprise

[redqueen]

52. Exactly. Anyone who is surprised

is not paying attention

[Heywood J]

56. What college did you go to that had gang rape porn or "no means yes"? (NT)

[seabeyond]

57. yale. first google. didnt read

http://msmagazine.com/blog/blog/2011/05/18/yale-bans-no-means-yes-fraternity-for-five-years/

listened to NPR talking about the college campus.

[Heywood J]

124. Thank you for the link.

I wasn't about to google "no means yes" and gang rape - the results would probably have been pretty bad.

[seabeyond]

125. you are welcome. i am the worst googler around. kids laugh

if it doesnt come up immediately, i give up.

i could find the one with NPR college campus though. i tried

[dogknob]

93. San Diego State University n/t

[proverbialwisdom]

117. Wrong - YALE.

[abelenkpe]

22. I know this happened to two friends of mine in college

Both at fraternities, too. And five of my friends in grad school. (Not at fraternities, two at a bar in LA both by bartenders and three from parties.) Gotta be very careful out there...

[Odin2005]

27. "Isolated Incident" my ass, close all these frat houses.

[Initech]

28. Ugh... These thugs are an embarrassment to real men everywhere.

[flvegan]

29. Dumbass fratboy should read the paper. The term "rape" has been redefined, so to speak.

Secondly, I call for all men of large stature and/or ability to call USC fratboys from Kappa Sigma to be called "targets" because giving them a name is pointless.

Senseless violence for everyone!

Lastly, I do hope to the gods he's not a law student. Cuz he's a fucking idiot when it comes to the law.

[Bohunk68]

30. Solution

According to a recent fb posting, a 911 operator suggested that a woman exercise her second amendment rights when someone tried to break in. But, officer, he was trying to break in!!!!!! Problem solved. Take him out of the gene pool.

[redqueen]

31. Objectification = dehumanization.

Seriously, why is anyone surprised by this?

As long as women are presented as things, decorations... objects (do you get it yet? is it sinking in? OJBECTification?)... this will get worse, not better.

Stop ignoring what is staring you in the face almost constantly. Objectification is creating the environment for this. Wake the effing hell up.

[seabeyond]

35. post 26. i am surprised you are surprise. YES. lets all pretend

That we have not been watching all of this manifesting right in front of our fucking face. Like it isn't a huge ass.... duh

[redqueen]

51. It is sad.

We see women presented as things all the time, but most people seem to think its fine and dandy.

Then we see the results, the expected results, of this dehumanization... and its all shock, shock, horror, horror.

What the hell else would you expect?

[seabeyond]

74. what i am finding is when it is blatanly presented, how consistently people ignore the issue

anything to divert the conversation from the issue. it has to be for self motivated purposes.

[redqueen]

86. Either deny it exists or pretend it's ok.

It is absolutely shocking how thoroughly it is ignored.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

80. The Military sure understands the value of DEHUMANIZING

They have always known it; that's why the marching "songs" reducing the enemy to gooks, jerrys, or other pejoratives. Makes it easier for the recruits to do their job. It's hard to kill a person, but easier to kill dehumanized things.

Or this famous one:
"This is my weapon, this is my gun
this is for killing, this is for fun"

Yet even people HERE deny that objectification of women could have any correlation to the escalating violence against us.

Isolated incidents my ass.

[redqueen]

84. Some deny that objectification even exists.

Most of the DUers that do at least acknowledge that much think its no big deal. Just good sexy fun.

Woo flipping hoo.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

130. yeah...

the military psy-ops part, dehumanizing your opponent, just occurred to me then, when I said it. Duh, so obvious!!!

drives me nuts....the stubborn blindness arg!

[redqueen]

137. It's amazing that so many people can apparently maintain such a huge blind spot...

but no, not really it isn't. I keep forgetting, power concedes nothing without demand... and this behavior... dominant groups fighting to retain every scrap of privilege as minorities fight for equality... is really not amazing at all. It is sadly typical.

[annm4peace]

32. Kappa Sigma.. doesn't surprise me

sounds like guys I came across in college.. same frat.. but other frats were just as bad.

I was never assaulted but had seen them in action and at two parties pulled assholes off drunk girls.
If I was a guy I would have punch the H out of them.

Sadly last year I found out my young cousin was raped by a friend of a friend.. a frat guy.

She was visiting a friend at Salt Lake City... so not sure what frats are there. or what colleges.

[annm4peace]

33. Shouldn't Campus Police be investigating this?

not the just the Fraternity.

The letter is basically a terrorist letter.. calling upon others to create terror against women.. and also hate crime against women.

i'm glad the new definition of rape was established.

It is rape if the victim was unable to respond.. due to being too drunk or high.

[Suji to Seoul]

34. Kappa Sig. . .not surprised!

I am also Greek Letter and alumni of fraternity. At my university, these people were scum too.

[LTR]

36. I wouldn't blame the greek system for this

Misogyny exists both inside and outside the greek system, even more so outside.

Keep in mind, we're talking about teenagers here with developing social skills. If he still feels this same way in 5, 10 or 15 years, that would be even more of a problem.

I was a greek and I can tell you we were encouraged to carry ourselves at the highest level. Of course, there was always a little debauchery here and there, but no more than any other high-testosterone college male. To use something like this to attack fraternities is a stretch.

[seabeyond]

40. high-testosterone college male.... oh those silly boys. nt

[LetTimmySmoke]

37. That email is a disaster.

The guy who wrote it is a fucking retard.

[quaker bill]

38. There are many good reasons to avoid frat parties

this would add to the ever growing list. Several frats attempted to recruit me in college (for my high test scores). They needed guys with high test scores to keep the Frat's "test library" for various courses filled with the most current correct answers. I was not interested.

[_ed_]

39. They should plaster his name all over the internet

so a record of this comes up every time this piece of filth goes for a job interview for the rest of his life. I really hate how adults in college seem to be able to avoid adult consequences for their actions just because they're going to school. If any other person his age did this at a job they'd be fired immediately.

[seabeyond]

41. +1. yes the nets, for all to see, when applying for a job. i could do without just testosterone

what can a person say.

[_ed_]

42. Actions should have consequences

It's a free country asshole, write whatever you want, but enjoy flipping burgers for the rest of your life.

[fascisthunter]

47. Excellent Idea... we should help

ooops, already done.

[dynasaw]

43. USC Tends to Attract this Type

An expensive private school, pro big business orientation. The sort of people who want a USC degree wear their degrees like designer labels. Did graduate work there, taught there and hated the whole culture of well heeled brats and equally obnoxious nabobs who ran the place.

[Fawke Em]

46. As a University of Tennessee football fan, I have to smile at this statement.

For those who don't know, in January 2010, our football coach of less than a year, Lane Kiffin, quit suddenly to go to USC to be head coach, leaving our football program in shambles.

[Starfury]

62. Go burn another couch...

It'll make you feel better.

[Fawke Em]

118. Huh???

For your information, I'm not a student. I'm an alum and I've never burned a couch.

I just don't like pigs like Kiffin.

[Cali_Democrat]

68. Blame Pete Carroll. n/t

[Fawke Em]

119. Na... I'll blame Kiffin.

[proverbialwisdom]

75. What a ludicrous post filled with grossly offensive overgeneralizations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Southern_California

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_University_of_Southern_California_people

http://dailytrojan.com/2011/03/10/ifc-statement-says-e-mail-did-not-originate-at-usc/

IFC statement says e-mail did not originate at USC

By Dara Weinraub · Daily Trojan
Posted March 10, 2011 at 8:38 pm in News

USC’s Interfraternity Council released a statement Thursday to clear up rumors that have been circulating about the viral e-mail that was linked to USC’s Kappa Sigma Fraternity.

In the statement, IFC and the Panhellenic Council condemn the “racism, sexism, and other bigoted content of the e-mail,” and provide several updates on the investigation into the e-mail’s origins.

The e-mail, the statement says, did not originate at USC. According to IFC, the e-mail was forwarded to USC’s Kappa Sigma chapter by someone who “is not a registered member of the USC greek community.”

IFC and PHC will be taking a stand against the offensive language and concepts that were in the e-mail, according to the statement.

The two organizations have created a Gentleman’s Pledge for every fraternity member at USC, and it was signed by all of the fraternity presidents. The Pledge emphasizes proper conduct and respect toward all women and individuals.

The two councils will also work with the Women’s Student Assembly and the Center for Women and Men to fight sexual violence.

IFC and PHC plan to further review the priorities on The Row.

[Fawke Em]

44. No. 5 of the Fourteen Signs of Fascism

5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.

Considering that the United States is gating toward complete corporate control, it's not much of a surprise that misogyny is becoming rampant and approved.

[seabeyond]

50. we have a twofer. keep wemmez as virgins, all wemmez is whores for mans play.

" complete corporate control, it's not much of a surprise that misogyny is becoming rampant and approved."

agreed.

[fascisthunter]

45. Ah yes... another conscienceless meathead

[treestar]

53. This is someone who women don't like

Bet he has big problems getting "laid."

It would be impossible to think most women did not see through him when they met him.

[Fire Walk With Me]

69. Tomorrow's corporate executives and politicians. nt

[proverbialwisdom]

76. FYI, read here including comments at links: http://dailytrojan.com/?s=kappa+sigma+viral+email

Also see post #75. Agenda, much?

[one_voice]

78. excuse me? are you accusing me of having an...

agenda?

[proverbialwisdom]

120. Please see post #114, thanks. Now if you'd posted about this upcoming DVD release, no argument.

DVD: http://video.barnesandnoble.com/DVD/The-Whistleblower/Rachel-Weisz/e/24543780502
BOOK (hardcover currently $4): http://www.amazon.com/Whistleblower-Trafficking-Military-Contractors-Justice/dp/0230108024/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1326057550&sr=8-5


The following article is the cover story of the most recent Columbia magazine "sent free of charge to all alumni of Columbia University in the U.S. and abroad, as well as to faculty, staff, and friends." Good news - presumably included are both the highest ranking Columbia College graduate in government and daughter of the current Secretary of State.

EXCERPT: "I had a diverse background in finance and economics and literature, and eventually law as well, and I thought, let me take a plunge and see what I come up with," Kara says. "I knew that in essence these were economic crimes."

http://magazine.columbia.edu/features/fall-2011/long-night

COVER STORY: The Long Night

Tackling the scourge of sex trafficking, from the big screen to the big street

by Paul Hond
Published Fall 2011

With her debut feature, The Whistleblower, director Larysa Kondracki '01GS has sparked a worldwide discussion on human trafficking.

[one_voice]

121. I didn't know it was a year old...

there should be no argument, since there is no agenda. I saw a story, from a source that's used on DU often, and I posted.

No agenda.

[one_voice]

123. Also wanted to add...

a story that is over a year old doesn't make it any less true. I guess your point (since you referenced post 114) is since ONLY ONE person wrote this email then it doesn't matter, and that it's a year old makes it a 'who cares story'.

Seems to me the agenda here is to defend this University, sweeping this under the rug as it was only one person, and a year old.

[Dorian Gray]

110. Whoever

wrote that original email is a total misogynistic creep. I don't know how anyone could defend it. (Luckily, I don't think any rational human being would defend it.) It's definitely a case of dehumanization of women. Sick sick sick.

[Le Taz Hot]

112. I would think it would be an embarassment

to admit that the only way he can "get some pie" is to ensure his victim is in some way incapacitated. As for the rest of his missive, it speaks for itself.

[LeftinOH]

114. This story is nearly a year old. ONE student wrote this (and he was not from USC); it

went viral because nobody got on top of it right away. "Isolated incident" is a perfect description of what happened here. If anyone thinks that this email is a typical example of intra-fraternity communication, you are mistaken --it's simply too ridiculous to be anything other than what it is: A sick prank.

What's more, the truth behind the original email suggests that the person who wrote it is not a member of Kappa Sigma nor any other greek-letter orgznization.

[mistertrickster]

122. Awww, Leftin, you're spoiling the OUTRAGE!

Every good movement has to have atrocities to spur the faithful on.

If a good atrocity doesn't happen naturally, the movement will fabricate one.

See for instance, "the Iraqis are throwing babies out of their incubators" that preceded Operation Desert Storm.

Just because it's not true doesn't mean it can't have immense propaganda value.

(heavy sarcasm)

[redqueen]

133. All the people who chimed in with their personal stories were lying?

Or they just don't matter?

Do you think rapes on college campuses are not a huge problem?

Really?

Actually no, that isn't surprising at all... forgot who I was dealing with for a moment.

[mistertrickster]

141. Way to go for the personal insult. I guess

that's what people fall back on when they got nothing.

BTW, you did see that sex crime had gone DOWN per 100,000 people, didn't you.

Yup, you're welcome. And feel free to update your talking point to the contrary.

[redqueen]

143. Way to avoid addressing the problem,

and the explanation provided for you upthread.

Feel free to look into how common rape is on college campuses. And then you can continue dismissing these stories with your bros.

[mistertrickster]

144. I never said that rape in college was not a problem.

I said 1. that this fairly old and probably bogus e-mail doesn't prove much and 2. because of rape-awareness, rape is going down.

Both of those points are pretty factual observations. It doesn't mean I'm the enemy as you and a couple of others seem to think.

But this issue is something that you and the other two or three are VERY ANGRY about, and your anger is directed at anyone who isn't equally angry.

Take a breath.

[redqueen]

145. I'm not angry at anyone who isn't invested in minimizing the issue of rape culture.

Did you see the thread about the woman who was raped repeatedly while hotel workers accepted the word of her rapists that everything was fine, despite her screaming?

Did you see that that thread was dismissed by an outraged DUer who found it unconscionable that we discuss the incident?

Do you not see that the post below, claiming that just because this is an old email that it's somehow meaningless and this is a non issue dismisses the issue of rapes on college campuses?

Just because you're comforted and reassured that the frequency of rape is decreasing, that doesn't mean that everyone is so all fired up and satisfied that we think that now we can just ignore this crap and pretend that anyone dismissing it is just ducky and we shouldn't be annoyed about that attempt to dismiss it at all? That many of us are aware of how many women never report the rape to begin with, so such statistics really aren't so comforting that we can allow people to attempt to minimize these things?

[mistertrickster]

146. Yup, you win. nt

[redqueen]

147. I'm not trying to win.

This isn't a contest. I just want to understand and be understood. That's it.

[mistertrickster]

148. Heh, BS. nt

[MadrasT]

139. "Isolated incident"?

OK... then never mind what happened at Yale...

University administrators are investigating an anonymous e-mail circulating through the Yale undergraduate community that ranks certain women in the freshman class based on their physical attractiveness.

The e-mail message — which was originally sent from an anonymous e-mail account — came to the attention of administrators and freshman counselors earlier this week after first being circulated among athletic teams and fraternities. Titled “The Preseason Scouting Report,” the message lists the names, hometowns and residential colleges of 53 freshman women, who are organized into categories based on appearance. Some of the names are accompanied by vulgar commentary on the students’ Facebook photos or Facebook profiles.

The e-mail classified the women into several categories, including “sobriety,” “five beers,” “ten beers” and “blackout,” based on perceived degree of desirability. Some are also given “overall grades” of “HIT” or “miss.” (The News obtained the e-mail but is not reprinting it in full to protect the privacy of the students named in the message.)

The Yale College Dean’s Office informed residential college masters of the e-mail Tuesday morning, prompting some masters and deans to alert freshman counselors that they might need to provide support to affected freshmen.

snipped to not violate copyrights, more at linky: http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/2009/sep/03/vulgar-e-mail-targets-freshmen/