Fire & Rain

[H2O Man]

I'm happy to be able to say that I am alive. Some slight discomfort, short of actual pain, in my face and sides. For when one reaches my advanced age, prolonged laughter has consequences. This has been on-going for a few days of my existence in a very republican section of upstate New York.

There was a "Black Lives Matter" rally in a public park in the largest town in the county. For days, on a facebook gossip group that too often channels the inner demons of Sean Hannity, rumors competed to reach the staus of "most delusional." George Soros was busing very dangerous black people to burn the town. Soros was encouraging Antifa to come by caravan to do unpeakable evils. Both men and women, perhaps intoxicated on liquor, chattered about the security that their gun collects provided them.

The rally, by the way, was both called for and organized by students attending the town's high school. They are all good young people who in most other times are known to make the community proud. The danger to the community was posed not by these students or there rally, but by the adults who seem incapable of listening to and understanding their message.

There are a number of good people who participate on the facebook group's page, but they are a tiny minority. I admire their calm determination to communicate sanely and rationally with the conspiracy theorists. But that can prove difficult in the face of imaginary non-white people who -- despite not existing anywhere but between the theorists' ears -- crowding reality out of the hearts and minds of the other side.

One man did post something about American Indians. He clearly did not want his land, located some thirty miles away from the rally, stolen from him. He also wanted to make it clear that he isn't a racist: he loves the Indians from the cowboy & western flicks he grew up on, and only hates black people. I know, dear reader, that like myself, you are thinking that the word "Noble" surely applies.

When family and friends ask me if things can possibly get worse, I assure them that they indeed will get worse within the next 24 hours. Frequently, one need not wait that long. Below that noble ode to open-mindedness referenced above was a response from one of his even more ignorant -- and fucking stupid -- buddies. "Fuck them! Indians kept declaring war on our country. They lost."

That stunned me. My mind was temporarily as foggy as if Sonny Liston had jabbed me. Is it humanly possible to be this dumb in 2020? I suppose about 25% of the voting public is. But wait! Could this be comic genius, making an uncomfortable yet hilarious joke at the racists' expense, like an Abbie Hoffman or a David Chappelle? If so, I was almost jealous.

Yet a quick check of this fool's FB status revealed that he was as stupid a human being as he appeared. I do not have the time, energy, or inclination to try to reason with him. Instead, I will sit out on my lawn, and enjoy the fact that there is absolutely no smoke rising on the horizen, darkening the sky above the town that didn't burn.

It must be a scary world the Trumpites inhabit.
H2O Man

[spanone]

1. ⭐️⭐️⭐️K&R ⭐️⭐️⭐️

Take best care.....

Nashville, TN just had a rally that expected 200 people.

Over ten-thousand showed up

3 Policemen took a knee and hugged protesters.

Good News. My daughter called me crying. She felt like a part of History.

[H2O Man]

2. Thanks!

It seems like these people are afraid of their own shadows. But not in the spiritual sense of their shadow.

[coeur_de_lion]

3. I'm going to remind you of something Bandy Lee said recently

The ability to tolerate uncertainty is a sign of health, and what Trump supporters evidently lack: their lives are so uncertain and intolerable, they are drawn to demagogues who say, “I alone can fix it,” or “I know everything” (which, of course, no honest individual would say).

These people watch Faux News every day and scare themselves to death. That's the aim of Faux News. Then they hear an authoritarian make a promise, decide he's the tough guy they need despite all evidence to the contrary, and now we have to deal with ridding the country of rump.

Their minds are small and their fear is huge, stoked by Faux.

[H2O Man]

5. Yes.

I have a very high opinion of Dr. Lee. She is one of the most rational and sane voices in our country today.

There is a documentary that a friend loaned me a while back, made by a lady concerned with how a constant diet of Fox News had changed her father from a decent guy into a lunatic. The family was able to prevent him from accessing Fox, and in a relatively short time, he recovered.

[coeur_de_lion]

7. That is what we need

to remove Faux News permanently.

[livetohike]

4. Living in rural PA for the past 13 years has been eye opening.

Some of the locals thought the radical “Muslins” were hiding behind every tree and the Black Panthers would come to our one room school house polling place and disrupt the vote. (I work at the polls so I get to hear all these fascinating fears).

They are the most fearful people I have ever met and I have lived in five other states. Fear of the other because there is little diversity here, so those who have lived here their whole lives have no experience with hardly anyone not their cousin or distant relations. Their news comes from FOX. I often think what a sad life it must be to be so uninformed and fearful all the time.

[H2O Man]

6. Yep.

There is a high level of ignorance in a lot of areas in our country. I'm familiar with some rural parts of PA that are caught in a time warp. When I was young, we used to joke that some of the rural NY & PA populations went to family reunions to look for dates.

There has been a great deal of paranoia about an Islamic settlement outside the town of Hancock, which is a stone's throw from PA. Every year or two, some fearful people exposed to a fake fil on youtube plan to attack them. And, of course, there are other examples of hate and ignorance in action.

[Scarsdale]

11. Well, reading the comments

it seems likely that those who attended family reunions looking for dates not only found them, but possible married them? Since their golden leader is so infatuated with his own daughter, maybe they really look upon him as one of them?

[malaise]

8. But but but

Last edited Thu Jun 4, 2020, 09:20 PM - Edit history (1)

do those nobles own a confederate flag?

What a delightful read - glad to hear about the rally.

[H2O Man]

9. Ha-ha!!!

Nothing says, "Hey everyone -- I'm a flaming asshole!" quite like a rural NY resident who has never traveled more than 20 miles in any direction flying that rag. And there are plenty of them, with more in the Trump era.

[malaise]

10. What I will never get is that they always say they hate losers

Last edited Fri Jun 5, 2020, 08:11 AM - Edit history (1)

Who are bigger losers than the Confederate army?

[Scarsdale]

12. Well, let's see

6 bankruptcies, 3 failed marriages, lots of failed business ventures. Surely, that says LOSER loud and clear?

[malaise]

13. Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

The biggest LOSER

[burrowowl]

15. And may he lose the election hugely!

[malaise]

16. I'm living for November 3

Believe me on that

[FrankTC]

14. No Smoke Rising . . . .

I've often thought that Republicans are the true snowflakes. Even brain scans indicate that conservatives tend to be more threat sensitive than liberals. However, fear-stricken Republicans are discriminating in their fearfulness. Their paranoia is attached to some types of threats more than others. Global warming, global pandemics -- these don't elicit a realistic level of concern. On the other hand, brown people, muslims, gays -- these are seen as agents of doom, the end of civilization. It's difficult to understand the distinction. Perhaps it's a function of right-wing propaganda? That is, Republicans fear whatever their leaders tell them to fear, and they scoff at whatever their leaders proclaim to be a hoax? But their leaders must have a basis for making the distinction. Perhaps a differentiating factor is the type of social response necessary for protection: military and police-state measures designed to attack and punish allegedly bad individuals vs. welfare-state measures that would either place limits on corporations or directly enhance the health and prosperity of all.

[H2O Man]

17. Well said!

Very well said, indeed. Thank you.

I was talking to my cousin last night, about a mutual friend who is pro-Trump. He is a retired carpenter, who gets SSDI and a pension from his union. He does not have the mental capacity to connect those sources of income to the Democratic Party. It amazes me that this fellow thinks that Trump cares any more about him than he does me.

[malthaussen]

18. I've been laughing a lot the past week.

It is my firm conviction that the momentum has shifted. Mr Trump's actions are those of panic and weakness. Though he has begged for the violence to escalate, the protesters aren't cooperating, and many police departments are showing great restraint. Of course, many are showing themselves barbarians, and thus marking themselves for reform. The Pentagon has shown unprecedented resistance to Mr Trump's bloviating and threats. The actual reach of his little fingers extends no farther than across the street -- and he is finally building his fence, but to keep us out, not immigrants. And he's doing it in the full light of day. (And that pathetic fence will be no more a barrier than the other one)

Things will get worse, here and there, now and then. But the secular trend looks to me to be upward. The cowards Mr Trump relies on are as afraid as he is, and the courageous are moving in the right direction. Times may be troubled, but I do believe that is the sound of crumbling institutions that were rotten to begin with. They will be replaced, maybe, by ones more fitted to the ideals that supposedly created our nation, and made it strong in the darkest times.

-- Mal

[H2O Man]

19. Right.

I have seen some photos of yesterday's rally. It was well attended and peaceful. From the pictures, it appears that about 75% of the crowd was comprised of female high school students.

Reading some FB comments today, I am reminded that for every action, there is an equal reaction. As happy as I am that the rally went very well, I know that there is someone who is equally unhappy that their dark and disturbed fantasies about Antifa showing up were not based in reality!

[Warpy]

20. They are terrified, but their terror is largely self inflicted and so not my problem.

I spent part of my growing up years in upstate NY. While I wasn't able to appreciate a lot of the jaw dropping stupidity then, I was able to file it away for later. It did help me cope with Dixie, they're everywhere.

I don't try to reason with them and haven't for a very long time. While you can discuss things and change opinions, there is nothing you can do about belief. Your example believes at his very core that Jesus is a white Scandinavian and anybody with more melanin than that is trying to topple both him and his lord and savior.

I've taken to asking "Where did you hear a dumb thing like that?" which takes the onus off the target and puts it elsewhere, making a defensive posture a little more difficult to assume. Once you've wrong footed them, changing the subject is possible and that is often the best you can do.

At least the kids seem to have their numbers. Most of the kids are really OK.

[H2O Man]

21. Definitely!

Your post reminded me of one of Vine Deloria's books, where he discusses a minister preaching that not only was Jesus a blond man, but that he wore a crew-cut.

[bucolic_frolic]

22. That's a prescient observation

A scary world in their minds ... could it be entered? defused? dissipated? medicated? If they were continually confronted with loathsome demons that failed to materialize, would that soften up their mental rigidity??? Seems to me it would be a long process, but worth a try.

[H2O Man]

23. Great questions.

In the past 24 hours, as a result of watching the news, I got out my copy of "Shadows of Forgotten Ancestors," by Ann Druyan & Carl Sagan (1992). I suspect that the majority of Trumpites are the modern version of superstitious early humans. And a significant amount of it is tied to multi-generation issues. Yet I do not think we have the option to not try.

[bucolic_frolic]

25. There is a lot of mental triangulation being seeded into discussions here

in an attempt to weaken our minds.

For example, they will take a small portion of a position you post and absolutely magnify it to trounce you with some accusation. This is a logical fallacy of blowing it out of proportion. You are being conditioned to not say that again anywhere.

Another example is whining and subsequent accusations of having crossed a line into insulting them. You don't know what you're talking about in other words. I'll offer a recent example. I think I'm being accused of far more than I stated here. https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1018&pid=1367035

It's all based on gaslighting - undermining your integrity and resolve. So we can use such tactics out in the world, on other social media, on message boards too. Throw the US Constitution at them. Cite sources that they respect, military leaders, Republicans, who break with Trump here and there. Ask what they plan to do when Trump comes to gas THEM.

This is a war for our souls and minds. It is being waged every day. It is not reassuring to see troops and steel walls around the White House because it sounds like he's not leaving and is prepared to lockdown civil rights with military precision if it conflicts with his desire to remain in office.

[H2O Man]

26. Right.

I took a look at the OP/thread you linked to above. While I did not read the entire discussion, my initial thoughts focused on how at different ages, with different experiences, we view things differently. And that's a good thing generally. If a person thinks exactly the same at age 60 as they did at age 30, they likely wasted about three decades of life. That seems to apply to relationships. (The Irish laugh at what we call a "Catholic divorce," where people remain in the same household out of habit, despite living separate lives.)

I've always liked the manner in which Malcolm X responded to those attempting to attack him based upon his past. He not only never denied who he had been in his troubled past, but used it to his advantage. And then he used that to turn the tables upon his opposition.

[soldierant]

24. "I know, dear reader, that like myself, you are thinking that the word "Noble" surely applies."

Well, I'd spell it differently:

No. Bull.

[H2O Man]

27. Very good!