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Mon Aug 31, 2020, 12:40 AM

My take on the Kenosha shootings/murders

I've watched as many videos of the events as I could find, and plenty more commentaries as well. This is as objective as I can be. I am disgusted that our laws allow open carry of assault weapons. I am disgusted by these so-called "patriots" who abuse our 2nd Amendment. I am particularly disgusted by Rittenhouse's decision to go larp-cosplaying with a loaded assault rifle, and with any parent who either encouraged or allowed it, or both.

Unfortunately, I think there's some chance that he successfully claims self-defense and gets away with it.

My take is that this kid was a cop-wanna-be, and feeling emboldened by open-carry laws, thought it was the "manly" and "patriotic" thing to do to show up armed and ready to defend some local car dealerships. His relationship to those businesses is unclear, but unless he was the owner (doubtful), it doesn't matter. To his testosterone-fueled adolescent brain, he was "proving" his manhood by showing up to the protests, ready to defend "property rights" with heavy firepower that, for unfathomable reasons, are legal for citizens to wield (putting aside for the moment his underage status).

Predictably, a confrontations ensued, and this young man reacted in a completely predictable way.

And, owing to the extremely destructive weapon he was shielding himself with, two young men lost their lives, and another his arm.

There was nothing extraordinary about the sequence of events. It was entirely predictable.

From the protestors POV, here's this young guy, mingling with them, clearly posing as an LEO surrogate, heavily armed. The first guy who chased Rittenhouse (Rosenbaum), had earlier engaged in a verbal altercation with some of the armed men, although it is not clear to me whether Rittenhouse was involved (but my guess is he was). Rosenbaum was filmed taunting someone to "shoot me" (why? Seems like a bad idea.).

It appeared, to me, that Rosenbaum saw Rittenhouse, separated from his comrades, and decided to take the opportunity to disarm him. Rosenbaum chased Rittenhouse, threw a plastic bag at him (?), and both men fell between some cars (unclear if a tackle was involved).

Right at this time, another (unidentified) man fired a handgun into the air (WHY??? So stupid! I hope they find him and charge him with instigating this!)

From the POV of both Rosenbaum and Rittenhouse, someone was firing a weapon, and both justifiably would have felt threatened. Unfortunately for the unarmed Rosenbaum, Rittenhouse used his weapon to shoot, and ultimately kill, Rosenbaum.

Within seconds, Rittenhouse circled back around to look at his victim, and then pulls out his cellphone to call....911, of course, right?

No! Wrong! He called a friend. Why? To boast? Because it was just the first contact that popped up on his cell? I think that, more than anything else, this action will become the main focus of determining his state of mind. When I first saw the video of this shooting, and saw how quickly he got on his phone, I thought: well, at least he is being responsible enough to call 911 immediately. I was shocked when I learned that, instead, he had phoned a buddy. This is a big deal.

Rittenhouse starts moving away from the scene, and witnesses are shouting that he just shot somebody. He runs down the road, with people following him.

He trips and falls, and Huber and another man try to immobilize him, but only momentarily. Huber had struck him with a skateboard. He shoots at Huber, hitting and ultimately killing him. Another nearby man, Grosskreutz, is apparently holding a handgun, holding his arms up. Rittenhouse shoots him in the arm (which later had to be amputated).

So, again, as had happened just moments ago, everyone involved felt immediately threatened and were trying to defend themselves. Huber and Grosskreutz were being heroic, trying to disarm a man who had just shot Rosenbaum.

So the difficult question: was Rittenhouse acting in self-defense, or was he the aggressor?

Set aside the fact that he was underaged--not excusing or ignoring it, just setting it aside--and why he was there in the first place--again, not ignoring it, but rather, to simplify the analysis of whether this was self-defense--and just focus on the shootings themselves.

Just looking at the likely states-of-minds *during* the confrontations.

I will not be surprised if Rittenhouse's attorney manages to convince a jury that he feared for his life, and acted in self-defense. It sucks that he put himself and those others in that situation. One way or another, he will be paying for that error for the rest of his miserable life.

As for his blue gloves, I really don't believe they were an indication that he intended to commit murder. Most likely, he wore the gloves because he fancied himself a "medic" and wsnted to look the part. Or, (and), he thought it wise to be able to show his hands to LEO, and have them plainly visible. Or, his hands sweat and he thought the gloves would help him control his weapon. I just really doubt the narrative that it was to conceal powder burns and fingerprints.

This fucking "kid" is a piece of shit, don't misunderstand me. He deliberately inserted himself into a volitile situation, thinking he coulds play the "patriotic good guy" but instead, he fucked up the lives of several others, including his own.

He should have to pay a high price for his naive mistake.



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Response to intrepidity (Original post)

Mon Aug 31, 2020, 12:52 AM

1. The kid has the same attorney that represented that Covington teen.

That attorney sued media corporations and probably got millions in out of court settlements for that boy. He's a great attorney. I expect him to get this kid off of most charges. It's sad.

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Response to Beakybird (Reply #1)

Mon Aug 31, 2020, 01:42 AM

2. Then Covington teen and Kenosha killer will become the new leaders of the Trump Youth

They can design the uniforms and program for indoctrinating the youngsters with their survival skills. They can take their lead from this pair.

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Response to Beakybird (Reply #1)

Mon Aug 31, 2020, 02:06 AM

4. Apples and oranges though

The kid was a Catholic school student who was an A-hole...He didn't commit any crime.

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Response to Beakybird (Reply #1)

Mon Aug 31, 2020, 06:26 AM

7. The people he killed were white so I think there is a chance he may not get away with it. If they

had been black I would say it's very likely he would get away with it.

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Response to intrepidity (Original post)

Mon Aug 31, 2020, 02:01 AM

3. Don't think the citizens of Kenosha asked kids with AKs to come and protect their property.

From reports I've read, their coming to town was instigated by unknown right-wingnuts on social media intent on stirring up unrest and violence. Same as they've done in Portland, Minneapolis and numerous smaller towns claiming pending antifa invasions.

Those people should be identified and hauled in for questioning with the possibility of charges later as this case plays out. Of course, they would be screaming "First Amendment rights" all the way to court.

IMO, social media could eventually be the final nail in the coffin of American democracy. We had nails aplenty already with Faux news and right-wing talk radio in the past, plus big corporate money influencing elections.

KY........

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Response to intrepidity (Original post)

Mon Aug 31, 2020, 06:13 AM

5. I sat on a jury this last January in a criminal trial. I'm fairly confident that an average jury

will vote to convict Rittenhouse just on the facts now generally available.

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Response to intrepidity (Original post)

Mon Aug 31, 2020, 06:15 AM

6. I'm interested in what the prosecutor has to say

He is charged with double homicide and think a self defense defense is very thin.

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Response to intrepidity (Original post)

Mon Aug 31, 2020, 07:40 AM

8. Talk about white privilege! Go back in that long analysis and substitute

a black guy for Rittenhouse and see if you can come to the same conclusion.

I don't think so.

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