He Shot the Elk on Saturday. It Killed Him the Next Day

[Demovictory9]

He Shot the Elk on Saturday. It Killed Him the Next Day

An Oregon man managed to hit a bull elk while archery hunting on Saturday—and in a terrible twist, be killed by the animal the following day. The Statesman Journal reports Mark David, 66, was on private land near Tillamook when he shot the elk, but darkness set in before he was able to track it down. David, of Hillsboro, and the landowner set out shortly after 9am Sunday and did successfully locate the animal, and KOIN reports he then again wounded the elk with a bow, but it charged and gored him in the neck fatally despite the landowner's attempts to help him. The elk was subsequently killed; KATU reports that following the investigation the meat was donated to the Tillamook County Jail

https://www.newser.com/story/295625/hunter-killed-on-sunday-by-elk-he-shot-saturday.html?utm_source=part&utm_medium=uol&utm_campaign=rss_top

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. My sympathies are with the elk. The hunter got what he deserved, and richly too.

Hunters should use cameras instead of guns--that way nobody gets hurt.

[Wicked Blue]

3. I agree

The poor elk...

[Tribetime]

6. Yes it had to suffer horribly overnight

[sinkingfeeling]

27. Me as well.

[Ferrets are Cool]

41. This

[WhiskeyGrinder]

42. What if I'm hunting for the meat?

[lunatica]

46. Why? Are the supermarkets low on meat?

That excuse is bull crap.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

47. What if I like meat that I know died quickly and was butchered and processed just the way I like it?

Can't get fresh venison at the store anyway. Have to do it myself.

[lunatica]

50. Is that your excuse?

Supermarket meat is not fresh enough?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

55. Nope.

It's that supermarket meat is generally raised, slaughtered and processed in an ugly way, driven as it is by capitalism. It hurts animals and people alike. When I shoot a deer -- which is an invasive species where I live -- I am entirely responsible for how it dies. I don't pay someone to do my dirty work for me. And then when I butcher and process it myself, I don't have to worry about exploitative employment practices or working conditions. Venison is versatile, tasty, and keeps well. It's high in protein and free range. But I can't get it at the store.

[Celerity]

73. after COVID-19, come to Sweden, we have fresh elk, moose, and reindeer meat in most stores

here is a pic I took when I was drunk (lol, its why it is blurry, just like I was) last Jultid (around Christmas) in a Hemköp (one of the big foodstore chains here)

[niyad]

79. Doesn't come much fresher than that!

[Doremus]

125. "Invasive species"

A sick way to refer to wildlife, which incidentally were on your land before you were.

Deer were hunted to extinction where I live in Ohio in the late 1800s. It took them almost half a century to regroup in enough numbers to allow them to be hunted at all, and then with strict quotas. Now that they've adapted to the theft of their habitat by the ever encroaching humans and their mcmansions and condo developments, they are called "invasive species."

I think it's the humans, and our penchant for killing less powerful beings, who are invasive. We need to learn to coexist with nature so that we all thrive. The penalty for not doing so is eventually fatal for all of us.

But by all means you enjoy that deer roast. It's worth it, right?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

126. The whitetail, in fact, are not native to the area where I live; they didn't come in until after

colonial and settler expansion took out the north woods and made it easier for whitetail to move in. This certainly happened before I was born, but the whitetail are hard on species that have been here longer than they have -- the white pine and white cedar, changing entire tracts to spruce, which is susceptible to a devastating budworm; as well as plants such as trilium, ginseng and orchids. They've also brought parasites that have weakened the native moose herd.

Hunting enough deer so I've got meat through the winter to stretch my budget helps my family thrive, the herd thrive (less competition for resources) and the land I live on thrive (by managing the herd that passes through the land). That sounds like coexisting with nature so we all thrive, to me.

But by all means you enjoy that deer roast. It's worth it, right?

As part of the other work I do, it is, indeed.

[Doremus]

131. So if stretching your budget is the true goal,

why not avoid meat and dairy all together?

You will save far more money on the cost of health care than keeping your fridge stocked with venison, bacon and burgers. To say nothing of the priceless value of your health. The country's #1 and #2 killers are caused by eating animals, fyi.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

135. It's not the "true goal." It's a goal. I listed a few in that response, and I can list some more.

I like eating venison, I like being out in the woods, I like honing and exercising the skills I have when it comes to hunting, shooting and cutting up a deer, and I like the work it requires. I'm confident that my enjoyment of alcohol is doing more damage to my body than my enjoyment of meat and dairy, and I generally feel good about my choices.

[dware]

172. Here's a novel thought,

why not let people choose the lifestyle they want?

Most of the people on planet earth are meat eaters and choose to be.
I have no problem with people choosing to not eat meat, more power to them, but, again, the vast majority of people on earth are carnivores, including myself, and I choose to remain that way.

[soldierant]

64. "Dies quickly" does not describe the elk in question very well.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

66. I was talking about my own experience hunting.

[soldierant]

68. If you did not and do not do what is being criticized here,

then don't take offense.
You probably are also not a bow hunter, which carries a much higher risk of causing animal suffering like that in this story.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

109. This thread stems from my response to "hunters should carry cameras instead of guns," which I

object to.

[soldierant]

167. OK, I agree yu can't eat film.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

168. Ha!

[treestar]

84. Those animals were killed too

in worse conditions, as some describe on this thread.

[smirkymonkey]

86. +1000

Hunting is pure bloodlust and nothing more.

[Doremus]

124. Agree.

[Codeine]

89. Supermarket meat is infinitely more cruel than hunting.

Hunting sucks in my opinion, and the honest unspoken reason people do it is because they enjoy killing things, but at least those animals aren’t subjected to the lifetime of horror that the animals killed for “supermarket meat” endure.

Eating meat is mean and shitty no matter how you dress it up.

[Drahthaardogs]

108. Oh, so animals from the supermarket didn't die?

Are they donating legs or something?

The only bullshit is that statement.

[Polybius]

169. It's not free in the supermarket

It's not a bad excuse, it's the only time I can ever justify hunting. With that being said, I live in NYC. I never hunted anything.

[totodeinhere]

74. If you are hunting for meat to feed your family you won't be using a bow and arrow.

A bow and arrow is used exclusively for sport. But shooting an innocent animal with an arrow is not a legitimate sport in my book. If you want use a bow and arrow use it to shoot at a bullseye target, not an animal.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

110. I don't bowhunt, but I do know people who do, and they use the meat to feed their families.

[hamsterjill]

97. No honorable hunter let's one suffer

He should have been out all night tracking the elk. My father was a rancher and that’s the code. You don’t subscribe? You don’t hunt.

[DBoon]

140. with a bow and arrow?

If I had to hunt for my dinner, I would use something that would kill the animal quickly and surely.

Someone who hunts with a bow and arrow probably eats a lot of vegan meals.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

141. Plenty of bowhunters fill their tag during the season.

A shot in the right place, and the deer doesn't even flinch.

[2naSalit]

176. Fair chase...

In reality means that the prey win sometimes.

[zentrum]

58. Thanks for saying it.

[totodeinhere]

71. Agreed. n/t

[Raine]

96. Absolutely, for a change the hunter got just what he deserved 😆

I just wish the elk had gotten to go free.

[Johnny2X2X]

115. Human lives Elk lives

Sorry, I hate hearing of animals suffering, but there is nothing wrong with hunting and it's a loss when a human loses their life.

[alphafemale]

2. I read that paragraph three times.

Where is the "terrible twist?"

[CaliforniaPeggy]

5. The "terrible twist" is that the elk lived long enough to gore the hunter.

This is not supposed to happen.

More power to the elk, in my not-so-humble estimation!

[NurseJackie]

4. Hmm. Pity.

[Codeine]

29. . . .

[Karadeniz]

7. The elk had the right...and I despise bow and arrow hunting the most.

[Beakybird]

8. Sorry for being callous, but I don't caribou. Poor elk.

[cayugafalls]

9. Never bring a bow to an antler fight.

[bigtree]

118. winner

...

[johnp3907]

10. " the meat was donated to the Tillamook County Jail."

Uh ... which meat?

[coti]

14. lol nt

[Crunchy Frog]

18. Maybe from both carcasses?

[Talitha]

30. Served... "with some fava beans and a nice Chianti."

[lunatica]

48. Both?

[Ilsa]

51. The secret's in the sauce

?itemid=16162013

From Fried Green Tomatoes

[johnp3907]

54. !

[Ilsa]

78. You said "frank" but don't you mean "flank"?

Or, "Is the frank the right side of the flank?

Or, "what part of the animal is the frank?"

[niyad]

76. I was just thinking about that scene the other day. Had to explain it to someone.

Like explaining the pecan pie scene in "The Help".

[renate]

11. Turnabout is fair play

I know, hunting is ostensibly necessary to prevent overpopulation. But the idea of killing a living, breathing, sentient animal for fun is just so off-putting. How is it different from killing small animals for pleasure like psychopaths do? Take a picture, it will literally last longer.

[hunter]

127. If there's a problem with the elk population it means there's not enough wolves.

LARAMIE, WYOMINGTwenty-five years after gray wolves returned to Yellowstone National Park, the predators that some feared would wipe out elk have instead proved to be more of a stabilizing force. New research shows that by reducing populations and thinning out weak and sick animals, wolves are helping create more resilient elk herds.

For the past 12 years, elk numbers in the park’s largest herd have leveled off between about 6,000 and 8,000, instead of extreme boom-and-bust cycles due to climate fluctuations.

“Elk aren’t starving to death anymore,” says Chris Wilmers, a wildlife ecologist at the University of California, Santa Cruz.

--more--

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/2020/07/yellowstone-wolves-reintroduction-helped-stabilize-ecosystem/

Human hunters are unnecessary.

[grumpyduck]

12. I can't handle hunting with bow and arrow.

Unless the hunter can kill the animal instantly with the first shot, it's just fucking torture.

And then they get all dressed up in camo gear and hide and pretend to be tough hunters.

Shoot at targets all you want, but keep away from animals.

[dem in texas]

13. Years ago, a similar accident hunting accident killed our neighbor.

It was when we loved in Alaska, the neighbor shot a grizzly while on a hunt in a wilderness area. The bear ran into a willow thicket; the man followed and the bear was waiting for him and attacked. The man didn't stand a chance.

[Crunchy Frog]

23. Placing oneself in the vicinity of a justly enraged grizzly

doesn't really sound like an "accident" to me.

[ecstatic]

77. Lol! nt

[Celerity]

85. it sounds like dinner............... for the bear!

[Coventina]

93. Trophy hunters are the scum of the earth.

I'm glad the bear won.

[NightWatcher]

15. They made prisoners eat a dead hunter? Ew gross

[Wednesdays]

26. Soylent Green, ya know.

Can't have that going to waste.

[Crunchy Frog]

16. Ooh, well played Mr. Elk! 🦌

I love seeing stories like this, even though it's sad that the elk didn't survive.

[Withywindle]

17. It only counts as a "sport" if both "teams" have a fair chance to win

In big-game hunting, I don't get sad if the animal wins. I only wish the odds were closer to 50/50.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

43. But they do.

Animals have instincts that do a pretty good job of keeping them alive against a lot of predators -- they smell, see and hear much better than we do, can sense movement better than we can, and can run a lot faster. They can deal with tough weather better than we can. We're smarter, that's all. It's actually pretty close.

[Withywindle]

72. No, I don't mean the animal has a fair chance of staying alive

I mean the animal should have the same chance of killing the hunter as the hunter has of killing it. THAT is fairness.


They need to be playing for the same stakes and with reasonably comparable odds.

[Coventina]

94. Thank you!! n/t

[WhiskeyGrinder]

111. Do you feel this way about all animals raised for food?

[Drahthaardogs]

19. Unless you all are vegetarians who don't wear leather

You all are a bunch of hypocrites. I grew up on a ranch, and I can assure you that cow, pig, or chicken values it's life just as much as an elk values his.

Bottom line is if you eat meat, something had to die. As far as bow hunting, yeah it has its issues - especially primitive bow. However, in some cities overrun with deer, it is a good option. Wishing a hunter dead, that is pretty fucked up unless you are Ghandi.

[AkFemDem]

24. Yes!! THIS.

Personally I think eating ethically hunted wild game is more humane than eating farmed meat. (I eat both, but I’m real about where my food originates)

[hatrack]

25. Never had a problem with people who hunt to eat . . .

Trophy hunting like the Trump spawn? Another matter entirely.

[Disaffected]

31. The difference is

killing for food vs killing for pleasure.

Surely anyone can make that distinction.

Bow hunting has its issues alright, just like all recreational killing.

[mtnsnake]

57. Exactly. You nailed it. Too bad the same thing didn't happen to Trump Junior

when he shot and killed an endangered Argali in Mongoli or any of the other beautiful animals he and his dumbass brother, Eric, killed, including big cats, etc in Africa. I'd love nothing more than to see those two assholes get gored to shreds by a lion or leopard or stomped flat by an elephant.

[Disaffected]

70. Exactly. You nailed it too.

Same for that troglodyte dentist who killed (Cecil?) the lion.

[panader0]

34. Even if you are a vegetarian, something had to die.

Plants are living things too, not with a brain like animals, but living nevertheless.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_Life_of_Plants

A controversial book, but there is evidence of some of it's findings.
I was a vegie for two years with my first wife. I missed meat.

[Voltaire2]

123. It is pretty clear that plants do not have anything resembling consciousness.

So that particular attack on the 'hypocrisy' of vegetarianism is pretty much bullshit.

If you really are concerned about this, which I doubt, consider taking up Jainist diet practices. They recognize the rights of plants to live their lives too, and avoid injury other than that which is essential for human existence.

[dware]

82. Thank You!!!!!

I just love the rank hypocrisy I'm reading here.

[treestar]

83. very true

Interesting how people prefer animals to people, sometimes, too. This guy was a hunter, but why be glad he died?

[garybeck]

88. I do not eat meat or wear leather

I suppose in your mind that being a vegetarian gives me the right to comment on this. I'm certainly not Gandhi but I don't have a lot of sympathy for the hunter. Hunting with a bow and particularly cruel it results in a long drawn-out death proven by the fact of this story. How would you like to walk around with a arrow in your body for days. It is not the same as farm animals but that is another story which I also do not think fondly of. I also think that if people were conscious of what happens to animals in order for them to eat them that many people would stop eating them. If they had to observe what the animals lives are like or how they are killed they would stop eating it immediately. people are allowed to compartmentalize and ignore what happens on farms because they don't have to witness it. Eating meat is also not good for the environment so people who claim to be environmentalists should give serious thought to being vegetarian. Have a nice day.

[Codeine]

90. I don't do those things,

because meat and leather are unnecessary and fucked-up.

That said, I don’t wish any hunters dead, but if you go out in the woods to murder things they might just choose to murder you first, or in this case simultaneously. Fuck with the elk, sometimes you get the horns.

[Coventina]

95. I don't eat meat or use leather.

I also didn't wish the hunter dead.
I never even knew of his existence until I read this thread.

I don't see why the elk's revenge is anything to be sad about.
I always rejoice when that lopsided, cruel "sport" backfires on the perpetrators.

[Iggo]

100. I didn't wish him dead. I'm happy he lost. There's a difference.

[Drahthaardogs]

106. No, there's not.

You keep lying to yourself though.

[Iggo]

114. There absolutely is.

I WISH he wouldn’t have tried to kill that elk. Once he’s out there it’s him and the elk, and I’m happy the elk won the fight. But I WISH he had left that elk alone.

Sport Hunter keep telling himself he’s doing me a favor every time he pulls that trigger though.

[Drahthaardogs]

120. Nah, that's fucked up and it just plays into the whole Republican "liberals are crazy" message

Saying that you are against hunting, especially with a bow since the animals suffers is completely cool and rationale. Saying you are against it so much, you are happy when a hunter is killed is just fucked up. It sounds looney, and it kind of is. Most people would not want to see that happen.

[Iggo]

132. Republicans haven't called me crazy and a liar this morning.

You have.

I don’t care about what they say about me.

I DO care what my fellow Dems say about me.

And I’m not here to fight with Dems, so have yourself a nice fucking life, and watch out for elk.

[Drahthaardogs]

139. Well, a lot of blue collar democrata hunt

I grew up eating elk because we were poor. I find your opinion repugnant and an attack on my childhood and way of life. Valuing a damned deer over a human is fucking warped.

[Raine]

101. I am a vegetarian and I don't wear leather

I guess can comment and say I love when those who participate in a violent activity end up with it literally getting them in the ass.

[Withywindle]

103. I have no problem with ppl who hunt common species like whitetail deer if they're hungry.

What I DO have a problem with is ppl acting like rare-species game hunting is FUN. If you NEED to hunt locally-common, non-endangered animals for food, I don't judge.

But killing another living being should never be considered "fun." It's not a sport. It should never be done for recreation only. There are a LOT of people who get high off the power trip of killing, and call that "hunting." If you're hunting only for the thrill and the "outdoor experience" and you're not needing it for food, use a goddamn camera instead of a gun. You're much braver because you have to get up closer, and it requires much more skill, and it produces a lasting work of art while doing no damage to wild creatures.

Trophy wildlife photography creates works of art. Trophy wildlife hunting creates rotting corpses.


And also, our early ancestors were on more equal ground, yeah? Shooting any animal from yards away with a rifle will never be anything but cowardly and unsportsmanlike, in "game/sports" terms

A handful of people fighting a woolly mammoth or giant cave bear with knives and spears? OK, THAT'S a fair fight. I might even consider rooting for the humans in that case!

[Withywindle]

105. I eat meat and I wear leather (Vintage, in the latter)

And I know that DOMESTIC animals die so I can have that.

No RARE NATIVE animals, though. Depending on where this happened, Elk are fairly rare (almost wiped-out by white settlers and only recently returned to some areas). Ranchers justify killing bison, elk, wolves, mountain lions, coyotes ETC to defend their livestock, and this is totally wrong. All them are encroachers on Native American land, as am I, and the wildlife was here first.

I don't wish trophy hunters DEAD automatically. I wish them to have the same odds to survive as the rare animals they're stalking. It should be 50/50. In my ideal world, sometimes the hunter kills the animal, and sometimes the animal kills the hunter. Both outcomes are fine within the rules of fairness.

[Drahthaardogs]

107. Elk are NOT rare

Ridiculous defense.

[dware]

116. Elks are rare?

Since when?

[Withywindle]

128. I admit, I was thinking more of those African trophy hunter dickheads.

I don't honestly even have a problem with hunting for food, at all.

I just sometimes cheer when the animal wins. Not much of a sport if the outcome is always the same.

[dware]

159. Trophy "hunters" are, IMHO, are not true hunters,

their main goal is to bag a "trophy", the meat is secondary to them.

I do know that some do donate the meat to the homeless shelters and also to friends, but for the most part, they cut off the head and leave the rest to rot or for the scavengers to take care of.

Why the hell anyone would mount a head on their wall is beyond me, IMO, it's ugly as hell.

I guess it's a dick thing.

Unfortunately, a beautiful animal has to die so they can prove what a great "hunter" they are.

Just for the record, I haven't hunted since I retired from the Corp, I don't want to ever again be responsible for taking the life of another living entity, but, that said, I have no problem with someone hunting for food as long as the animal is dispatched quickly and humanely.

[Voltaire2]

122. vegetarian who doesn't wear leather here!

I'm ok with hunting for food, it is generally less cruel than the consequences of buying factory farmed meat from the super market. I think 'sport hunting' is a bullshit sport. Sorry about both the elk and the human, although the human started it.

[LanternWaste]

154. Your self-righteousness is most likely brought on by simple bias.

Don't pretend people who eat meat receive the same joy or entertainment from killing sentient life that you receive.

That being the critical and relevant distinction.



Try the corollary: "Wishing sentient life dead, that is pretty fucked up..."

[Drahthaardogs]

155. And your self righteous comes you believing your"above" it

I've slaughtered countless chickens, hogs, lambs, and cattle growing up.

We did it for ourselves, our friends, and our family. I never relished it, but I never found it shocking either. It was simply the way things work.

At least I have the sack to get my hands dirty, admit I am willing to take a life because I like eating flesh than some pretentious "I'm better" bullshit.

You may fool yourself but you don't fool me. You are just comfortable throwing stones and letting someone else do your dirty work.

[dware]

160. +100. nt

[demmiblue]

20. Now if all the tortured and abused factory-farmed animals could do the same thing!

Oh, wait...

[renate]

129. I wish they could

My skin crawls at the idea of hunting, but at least the animal had a free and animal-y life first. Factory farming breaks my heart. And I feel terrible for the slaughterhouse workers who have no other employment choice but to spend their working lives slicing and eviscerating innocent animals. Even if they don't sympathize with the animals, seeing that suffering or the sequelae thereof, hour after hour and day after day and year after year, must eat away a little bit at their souls.

[Yavin4]

21. If hunting is a sport....

Elk 1
Hunter 0

[Happy Hoosier]

32. More like one all

The elk died too.

[Codeine]

91. Nil-nil draw.

Like soccer, but with blood and poetic justice.

[Jack-o-Lantern]

22. Elk 1 Hunter 0... Karma.

[Codeine]

28. "A terrible twist"?

More like an absolutely delightful turning of tables!

[geomon666]

33. Good on the elk.

I'd try to kill the guy who tried to kill me too.

[RhodeIslandOne]

35. Oh well

[Totally Tunsie]

36. And yet, Gums and Junior live.

[C Moon]

37. I wouldn't call it a terrible twist. Justifiable, yes.

[TeamPooka]

38. Pretty good twist to me. Not terrible at all.

[Susan Calvin]

39. Shouldn't have been shooting

If he could reasonably expect he didn't have the daylight to track it down.

I have become more resigned to hunting as being more humane than factory farming if done correctly. But you have to kill clean or track it down immediately.

I mean shooting for food and non endangered species, of course

[TheBlackAdder]

40. In remembrance of the hunter, the prison should serve the elk with tots and pears

[SheltieLover]

44. Karma is not pleasant

[GulfCoast66]

45. I'm a deer hunter. Usually put 1-3 in the freezer every year for the world's healthiest meat.

But not that down with bow hunting. It takes a perfect shot on a whitetail deer to get a real quick kill.

On an huge animal like an elk the chances go way down.

That said. Even an animal killed with a bow dies a better death than factory farmed animals killed in a slaughter house. I’ve seen them.

I don’t make a shot unless I’m completely confident that it will result in a very quick death of the animal. I pass on way more shots than I take. As do the hunters I hunt with.

Feel bad for the guy’s family. He failed on a hunter’s primary obligation. To make a quick kill. Which is real tough with a bow and an elk.

[Major Nikon]

59. I can't agree

The method of dispatch in slaughterhouses is heavily regulated and instantaneous. This just isn’t the case for any animal shot at a distance. An instantaneous kill is always more a matter of luck as anything. Many animals must bleed out before dying, and for some death will not come for hours if not days. I understand the conservation aspect of hunting, and I’m not opposed to it, but calling the method more humane seems to be far afield from reality.

[Susan Calvin]

61. Not talking about just the method of dispatch.

Talking about the life before that as well.

[Kali]

65. yep

[GulfCoast66]

98. I'm still not sure we disagree. I don't bow hunt.

I think it is normally done by folks who are really good hunters and who have forgotten their basic responsibility. To insure a quick, clean kill.

And I actually agree with you on one of your main points. When I shoot a deer at 200 yards it is not the same as a spike to the head like a steer gets in a slaughter plant. Even if I hit them in the heart and lungs, which only once in 54 years I have failed to do, they take a minute or so to bleed out. May run 100 yards.

But you are focusing on the few minutes when the animal is actually dispatched. You forget the dumb ass steer first being loaded on a truck to go to market. Then on a train to the feed pens in the Midwest. Then being loaded up to take them to the slaughterhouse. Every step which created stress. So when that bolt goes into their brain and before they are actually killed they are oblivious. I’ll grant you that. But every step leading to that is hard on them.

And hogs? They are smart. They know what’s coming. I’ve been to a hog slaughter plant. Those guys know they are about to be killed.

And it’s not like the deer that are not shot and live out their natural lifespans get a comfortable retirement. They are destined to get eaten alive by coyotes or wild dogs where I live. I’ve seen the results. It’s obvious they were still fighting as they were consumed. Nature is often cruel.

But back to the subject at hand. I don’t like bow hunting. Where I hunt it is a way for people to get more deer per year.

I choose to eat meat. I don’t alway leave the dirty work to someone else to absolve myself of the responsibility.

And I take that responsibility seriously. I consume as much as I can. Heart, liver and tongue. Been looking at kidney recipes lately. If I’m going to kill it the least I can do is respect it by using all of it.

Be safe and have a nice week

[Major Nikon]

121. I'm just replying you your statement about the death itself

I know a lot of people that hunt, and most of them are folk I wouldn't trust managing a portable toilet. Whatever suffering an animal receives is the farthest thing from their mind. Certainly some hunters are very responsible in this regard, but that is hardly representative of the group as a whole.

As far as stress goes, wild animals receive far more stress than domestic animals who don't have to worry about the constant threat of just staying alive. It doesn't mean many, if not most states have a long way to go in regards to regulating the treatment of livestock. It does mean comparisons between the two are apples and oranges. Wild animals have the serious stress of famine, disease, predation, and habitat destruction which just doesn't happen to any large degree with livestock. Controlled hunting and conservation programs relieve some of this stress, but it's never going to be anywhere close to the level of domesticated animals. As far as any method of dispatch goes, stress before dispatch reduces the quality of meat produced and decreases shelf life. So not only do commercial operations have a regulatory interest in reducing that stress, they also have a financial interest. Hunters should have that same interest, but many just don't understand why and ignore or are ignorant of it.

[Susan Calvin]

62. Factory farms is not just the method of dispatch.

It is a life before as well. In other words, I agree with you. I used to be rabidly anti-hunting, but I'm not now, as long as it's for food and non endangered species and you do it correctly.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

49. This place is amazing sometimes.

[Disaffected]

75. Yes, it is amazing in many ways.

A lot of good information and commentary here and a great place to hang out with (mostly) thoughtful, like-minded people.

The best forum I've yet to find.

[Lars39]

52. And that's why you don't hunt close to dusk.

[Susan Calvin]

63. Bingo. nt

[Marcuse]

53. Not so tough without a gun.

[Disaffected]

80. WoW

Why am I watching that over and over??

I wonder what led up to it and what the outcome was?

[smirkymonkey]

87. Yes, I am finding myself strangely mesmerized by that gif.

Would also like to know how it turned out, but doesn't look like the hunter fared very well.

[OMGWTF]

56. My dad once killed a deer with his bow and arrow. It had a muscle reflex and broke his leg in two

when he approached it. He was in the woods, away from his hunting buddy. He blew his whistle while dragging himself on the ground back toward the truck. My dad's friend first drove him to the hospital and then showed up at our front door with a boot in one hand and a deer tail in the other, saying, "I've got good news and I've got bad news."

As an aside I loathe hunting, especially with high powered rifles, and especially big game with douche bags named Trump. When my dad found out from his mother that he was 1/16 Cherokee Indian, he switched from a rifle to a bow and arrow. He used very bit of that animal too, so I respected the way he did it, even though it still feels like he was killing Bambi's mom.

[Susan Calvin]

69. I know what you mean about Bambi's mom.

I am edging closer and closer to being a vegetarian myself. Unless I raise my own animals and slaughter them myself or supervise their slaughter. I'm not sure I'm up to that. But I'm also not sure well actually I'm pretty sure I couldn't unless I hired a personal chef, get proper nutrition as a vegetarian. Now if I were Paul McCartney, I would be vegetarian in a heartbeat.

[Nitram]

60. Poetic justice.

[Stinky The Clown]

67. Karma, Motherfucker. K A R M A ! !

[niyad]

81. Is it elk season in OR? Did the man have an elk license?

[Coventina]

92. Go Elks!!!!

[Iggo]

99. Go Elks!

Trophy hunting is a sport, right?

So I get to root for whichever team I want, then.

Sorry trophy hunters, you fucking scum.

[North Shore Chicago]

104. You want to kill?

One argument I hear concerning hunting bigger game is "Meat is expensive and I am feeding my family!"

After buying equipment:

1. Camo garb

2. Deer stand

3. Weapons including ammo

4. Licenses

5. 4 wheelers

6. Deer stands

7. Doe piss (really?)

8. One needs a big'ol truck

I am sure I'm missing numerous items..... other DU members could probably pitch in.


That sure sounds expensive to me. Seems more like an excuse to get away from the little woman and stroking your masculinity.

[Codeine]

112. Killing things gets their sad little dicks hard.

Pathetic.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

113. Hunting is certainly different things for different people. But it doesn't have to be expensive.

I use two things on that list when I hunt, and I could borrow one. On a $40 license, some pleasant hours in the woods, and a few hours messy work, I can end up with 50-70 pounds of meat, which kicks the grocery store's ass.

[essme]

134. See my reply below-

Next time someone on DU asks "why people in the country vote Republican," I am going to refer them to this thread.

Amazing, really- the disconnect here is unreal.

[Doremus]

144. You need to add in the costs of health care for the chronic illnesses that eating meat cause.

The human body doesn't need to eat meat. It's a preference and culture, not a physical necessity.

People can and are perfectly healthy eating a diet that lacks any animal products of any kind. In fact, they are much MORE healthy without it.

[dware]

161. I'ven been eating meat since I was just a wee little child,

I'm now in my 70's, and my last annual physical was a clean bill of health.

I enjoy eating meat, as does the vast majority of the world, it's a thing called freedom of choice and most people choose to eat meat and live a long and healthy and happy life.

[Paladin]

117. If you're hunting elk, use a high-powered rifle.

A .308, minimum. A .338 mag would be better.

Subjecting a magnificent, enormous game animal like an elk to a guaranteed slow death by bow hunting is just sick. I'm shedding no tears for the dead hunter.

[MrScorpio]

119. Sometimes you get the elk, the other times the elk gets you.

[GoneOffShore]

151. Exactly - Well said.

[dware]

162. Not really, it's sometimes you get the elk,

and sometimes you come home empty handed.

[jeffreyi]

130. Turn about is fair play.

As far as I'm concerned...maiming widlife via arrows and archery is brutal and inhumane. These techniques very seldom result in a quick kill. Not a good way to go. If you are killing an animal for food, get on with it.

[essme]

133. If anyone wants to know why people in the country tend to vote

Republican, all one has to do is read this thread.

I live in a city- not huge-- drive an old Subaru, wear Birkenstocks, and eat a pescatarian diet. I have a double masters, and a double BS in history and religious studies.

Watching DUers pile on someone who hunts is amazing. Even more amazing are the threads, "why do the people in the country vote for Republicans?"

Your answers are all right here, in this thread.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

136. Hunting threads are classics on DU. They're always hilarious.

[essme]

137. Yep, but let's put 2 and 2 together, shall we?

Why do people in the country vote against "their own self interests?"

Maybe they AREN'T. Maybe we do (myself obviously included) look like elite fucks to them.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

138. People never vote against their own self interests.

Anyone who says someone else is voting against their interests simply doesn't understand what that person's interests actually are.

[hurl]

165. I almost always agree with your posts

I'll agree that people don't knowingly vote against their interests, but I am equally certain that people can be duped into believing that voting against their self interests is actually in their interests.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

166. People almost always know what is best for themselves in the moment.

If someone is "duped" into "voting against their interests," it's academic whether it's actually in their interest or not, I think. If someone is racist and votes for a racist who undermines their economic standing, has the voter been duped? If they don't think they're racist but like the way the racist sounds, have they been duped? Honestly it's easier to understand other people's motivations if you take their actions at face value.

[Polybius]

170. I agree

When people say "Why do poor whites in Alabama vote Republican, it's against their own self-interests?" they are wrong. They are 100% in agreement with the Republicans on guns, abortion, police, gay rights, and sticking it to black people.

[Willto]

145. You are spot on essme

Threads like this are why we lose in most rural areas. Almost all the Democrats I know here in Alabama black or white hunt, myself included. I find it especially laughable in a sad way to read the comments by people who buy all their meat from a store as if that makes them morally superior to a hunter. Ever seen the conditions in most slaughter houses? Ever seen the kind of lives most animals raised purely for meat endure.

Oh but don't worry. By the time it makes it to the meat counter at Kroger it will be all cleaned up, sanitized and packaged neatly enough that those hypocrites can feel like they are less cruel than we mean old hunters.

Republicans make a point to shine the spotlight on these extreme views (like being joyful over the death of an elk hunter). And trust me it moves the dial in rural areas. Crap like this is one of the few effective things that Republicans can show black men in my neck of the woods to dissuade them from voting. Hunting and fishing is one of the main ways poor black families here in the south boost the amount of meat they can provide for their families. This notion that the typical hunter is someone who flies to Africa to shoot a lion just for it's pelt is bull$#%t. Most do it for meat. For the cost of one cheap shotgun or rifle (often passed down from father to son) and a few cheap boxes of shells a poor family here in Alabama can put hundreds of pounds of meat on the table over the course of a year. Deer, wild hog, rabbit, squirrel etc.

So keep it up. Lets alienate all the people we can that are engaging in a perfectly legal activity that puts food on the table for their families. Let's make our tent smaller and smaller. When we are all standing in a political re-education camp somewhere in year 8 of Donald Trumps reign as he issues an executive order abolishing all future elections and naming Donnie Jr as his successor, perhaps then we will think to ourselves, "gee maybe we shouldn't have acted like such condescending intolerant douche bags to anyone who wasn't exactly like us".

[essme]

148. Right on. WE are giving the impression

that we only put down our lattes and march when it is fashion.

[Paladin]

150. Lighten up, Willto. (nt)

[Dial H For Hero]

142. On a recent visit to my father in his nursing home, he reminisced about his hunting trips.

He took great pleasure in them, even when he didn't get anything (although he enjoyed it much more when he did). I grew up eating duck, goose, pheasant, deer, and elk. It was delicious.

He was telling me how much he missed going on them, and I wanted to cry. If there was a way to make it happen, I would.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with hunting. It's not my thing (I tried it once, it was boring), but if you enjoy it and you follow all the game laws, more power to you.

[Dial H For Hero]

143. Some pictures of hunters for this thread.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

146. Ginsburg and Kagan as well.

[FakeNoose]

152. Sure, but there's a difference between a big bull elk and smallish game birds

Just sayin'

[Dial H For Hero]

157. Yes, elk are much bigger and more photogenic. But many posters on this thread are attacking all

Last edited Tue Sep 1, 2020, 09:29 PM - Edit history (1)

hunters and wishing them harm, are they not?

[Yeehah]

147. Nature gets a win

No tears from me.

[GoneOffShore]

149. All the meat? Not too many people will eat 'long pig'.

[LanternWaste]

153. Can't really respect anyone who is entertained by the killing of sentient life.

And am frustratingly unsurprised by the rabid defense killing for joy consistently engenders.

[Codeine]

158. "We just do it to put food on the table"

Baloney. They like to kill things. They can dress that shit up any way they’d like but in the end they’re still getting their jollies by ending lives. Killing is fun for them. Fuck em.

[Disaffected]

163. Also for their

endless attempts to rationalize the irrational.

[dware]

164. I'm curious to know,

what is irrational about hunting to put food on the table?

When I was growing up, we had to hunt meat to supplement our food, we were poor and depended on hunting to keep us fed.

I just love the bashing of hunters here, and people wonder why the Dems do so bad in the rural areas of the country, well, all one has to do is read the threads on hunting here on DU.

[Disaffected]

171. I'm referring to recreational, trophy, thrill-kill etc. hunting,

not genuine hunting for food if it is done in a responsible manner.

And I'm under the impression that most of the negative comments here have that same general frame of mind.

[Dial H For Hero]

173. My father can accurately be described as a recreational hunter. Ww did eat everything he killed

(or gave it to friends), but he didn't hunt because it was cheaper than going to the grocery store. He did so because he enjoyed it.

Was he being "irrational" for doing so?

[Disaffected]

174. No, if he wasn't using the "we eat everything"

or, "they would die of starvation etc. if I don't kill them" excuses.

Otherwise he was just being cruel (IMO).

[Dial H For Hero]

175. He never used any excuse at all. The issue of hunting being unethical never came up a single time

to my recollection.

As for being cruel, would you describe someone buying meat at the supermarket in the same manner?

[Disaffected]

177. No.

That's the "don't complain if you buy meat" rationalization.

[Dial H For Hero]

178. He wasn't rationalizing anything. As I said, the issue never even came up.

He didn't rationalize hunting any more than he rationalized going for a Sunday drive. His hunting was simply one of many things he enjoyed.

[Disaffected]

179. OK, my last post on the topic...

The rationalization was yours (last sentence of your previous post).

[Willto]

180. You call it....

a rationalization. I call it a glaring fact that exposes the rampant hypocrisy of people who buy meat from a store yet act morally superior to a person who hunts for and then butchers their own meat.

[Disaffected]

181. You really haven't been

following the discussion very carefully.

I have already clearly stated my comments are not directed to those who hunt for food and do it in a responsible manner.

[Dial H For Hero]

182. I was asking you to clarify *your* position. I don't rationalize hunting for pleasure with the

supermarket argurment. I don't think that hunting hunting for pleasure needs justification in the first place, as I have no issue with it.

[XanaDUer2]

156. Thoughts and prayers

Nt