General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIs blocking highways an effective form of protest?
I can't see how pissing off a bunch of people is going to increase support for a cause.
malaise
(268,887 posts)And it only took you a minute.
malaise
(268,887 posts)peggysue2
(10,828 posts)Snake Plissken
(4,103 posts)Right now the protest around the country are Trump's only hope for reelection
Zambero
(8,964 posts)Ratf*ckers and RW propagandists would definitely want to see more of this "tactic".
RazzleCat
(732 posts)endless repeat.
Bobstandard
(1,303 posts)The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.― Edmund Burke
underpants
(182,739 posts)Bobstandard
(1,303 posts)mahatmakanejeeves
(57,379 posts)It only succeeds in pi$$ing off everyone trying to get to work, to school, to pick up the kids from daycare, the doctor, the grocery store, etc. Even if I agree with the cause, it irritates me to no end. If your protest can only succeed by causing great inconvenience or harm to others, your protest is successful only in feeding your own ego and feeling of self importance. EOM from cranky old lady 😄
gratuitous
(82,849 posts)If all you people would just come up with a quiet, dignified form of protest the didn't inconvenience me personally, and that I didn't have to see, and that didn't draw my attention to whatever injustice it is you're trying to remedy, I'd be okay with that.
In fact, it would be best if you just learned to continue living with that injustice without objection that would be best for me. Thanks for finally recognizing and conceding that my right to get a pack of smokes at the neighborhood store without delay is far more important than whatever picayune concern it is that you have.
There is a huge balance, inconvenience is not on the wrong side of protest.
Bettie
(16,086 posts)The point of protest is that it isn't comfortable, it isn't convenient.
bluewater
(5,376 posts)Vivienne235729
(3,383 posts)GemDigger
(4,305 posts)Dial H For Hero
(2,971 posts)As for persuading them to one's side on a political issue when doing so....not so much.
maxsolomon
(33,284 posts)or just criticism?
How do you make suburbanites listen? Come to their town, dressed in black, on school buses?
TheRealNorth
(9,475 posts)But if your goal is to change or win hearts and minds, then I think blocking freeways is a shitty tactic
But if you're goal is 4 more years, then I guess you have a winner.
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)Trust me when it comes to BLM there is no right way to protest.
It seems so many people in this thread are unaware of the controversial police tactic called "kettling".
TheRealNorth
(9,475 posts)Historically, the results of those that implement collective punishment is that it turns people that are indifferent and/or sympathetic to your cause against you.
Kettling is an altogether different issue. I mean, if you are willing to break the law and block a freeway, what is stopping you from just ignoring the attempt to kettle?
maxsolomon
(33,284 posts)Criticism is easy.
TheRealNorth
(9,475 posts)I said if the police try to "kettle" you, then practice civil disobedience at that point. That is what they did in the '60's.
Now please answer my question about whether you think Collective punishment of everyone on that highway that you block is justified because of the indifference or actions of (presumably) some on that highway?
maxsolomon
(33,284 posts)You want people to hear your message, not ignore it. It's not supposed to be polite.
I accept that someone else's protest may inconvenience me, and I don't think it is a matter of "justice" or "fairness" that is does. Life is unfair. You can call it collective punishment, but I bet BLM activists would disagree with that framing. Collective Impact or Collective Awakening, maybe.
BTW, you proposed a strategy when the Police "kettle" protestors. The decision to march onto the freeway is usually voluntary and not forced on marchers. It's not a particularly common tactic here in the Soviet of Seattle, but it was used this summer when the anger was burning brightly.
TheRealNorth
(9,475 posts)That results in no impact except to turn people against you.
GemDigger
(4,305 posts)It would stop pissing people off.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)judeling
(1,086 posts)But it depends the strength and control of the leadership. It moves protestors to a controlled environment away from business and residential. It is significant and aggressive enough to draw attention and if after some violence the leadership is able to denounce looting and destruction it plays well and can inject some separation of the movement and the violence.
Darn this takes me back to the 60's.
maxsolomon
(33,284 posts)Let's say you are protesting injustice in a major city, a place that many white people have removed themselves from, except to traverse it on an interstate highway.
You need them to pay attention, to acknowledge the injustices, to be impacted, to not simply dismiss you (which is what the privileged prefer). No justice, no peace. Maybe you can see how it begins to make sense to the activists.
The effect, however, is to infuriate the privileged suburbanites (or whomever), creating resentment against the protests, because they are inconvenienced.
It has resulted in deaths, committed by infuriated drivers: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/marchers-say-hit-and-run-that-killed-protester-on-i-5-isnt-the-only-time-theyve-been-targeted-by-drivers/
Give me convenience or give me death, as the Dead Kennedys once sang.
judeling
(1,086 posts)in context.
My commute took an extra hour, does not stand up over time to, They are fucking killing us.
brooklynite
(94,489 posts)Th y are working class folks in buses, delivery people, taxi drivers...
maxsolomon
(33,284 posts)Can you propose a good alternative that gets working class folks in buses, delivery people and taxi drivers to hear, acknowledge, and support BLM's cause?
brooklynite
(94,489 posts)maxsolomon
(33,284 posts)It is asserting that it is counterproductive.
Instead of criticizing my assumptions or generalizations, can you propose a more effective method of protesting that will not alienate freeway drivers?
Happy Hoosier
(7,277 posts)how does that help?
If I am late to work, or late to pick up my kids, or miss a doctor's appointment, I an guarantee you that will not be inclined to support your cause.
maxsolomon
(33,284 posts)Can you propose an alternative form of protest that would garner support for BLM?
Happy Hoosier
(7,277 posts)We had a scheduled rally with announced road closures. Lots of signs and detours. Local cops supported it and it went great.
maxsolomon
(33,284 posts)Got it, thanks,
Happy Hoosier
(7,277 posts)So you are fine with people being late to pick up their kids, or getting in trouble for being late for work?
Does that show human compassion? It does not.
maxsolomon
(33,284 posts)I said why I believe activists choose to do that, and asked for effective alternatives, which seem to be few and far between on this thread.
Are you saying that BLM activists who lead these marches do not have human compassion?
Happy Hoosier
(7,277 posts)... demonstrates a certain disregard for the lives of other working people.
I don;t give a shit is Chad and Buffy are late for their tee time. But if a blue collar worker has to pay a $50 dollar late fee when picking up their kid from daycare, I think that sucks, and I think organizers need to consider that.
My daughter is older now, but I remember having to pay a late fee for picking her up when stuff hapens, and when when money is tight, it's a big fuggin' deal.
Bettie
(16,086 posts)there should never be any protests anywhere.
Wow, that's sounds effective , just wait and hope that someone notices the injustices or oppression, yeah, nothing will ever change, but no one will be inconvenienced.
W_HAMILTON
(7,859 posts)brooklynite
(94,489 posts)Might want to brush up on your history.
W_HAMILTON
(7,859 posts)One person's """blocking traffic""" is another person's peaceful protest.
bluewater
(5,376 posts)JonLP24
(29,322 posts)To me it doesn't matter if there are protests or not I'm going to continue to challenge racism as best I can.
Police kettling is often the cause
On Tuesday evening, as a large group of peaceful protesters marched over the Manhattan Bridge, members of the New York Police Department parked on opposite ends of the span, trapping 5,000 people over the water for nearly an hour. The night before, in Dallas, police officers corralled protesters on the Margaret Hunt Hill Bridge before arresting 674 of them (they were released later that night, with at-large charges for blocking traffic). That same night in Washington, D.C., police officers drove protesters into a crowded intersection of Swann and 15th NW with teargas. All over the country this week, police officers have surrounded protestersand then refused to let them leave.
This tactic is called kettling, a word you might have seen popping up in social media posts from and about the protests. The term evokes a boiling tea kettle, but it actually comes from a German military term referring to an army thats completely surrounded by a much larger force. Kettling is a law enforcement tactic specifically applied when the police have chosen to criminalize existence in public spaces, says Blake Strode, Executive Director of ArchCity Defenders, a legal advocacy group that has handled kettling cases in St. Louis. So separate and apart from who is caught in them and how people are impacted, which is all true and well-stated, it is also fundamentally about police dictating whom is allowed to be where and when.
Ostensibly a form of riot control, kettling occurs when police officers block off streets and push people into confined areas, like a city block or a bridge. While protest and riot management traditionally focuses on dispersing crowds, kettling is all about containment. When youre kettled, you have no access to bathrooms, very little space, and no place to go. Critically, no one gets to leave until the police say so. Basically, its a pressure cooker without a valve, said civil rights attorney Javad Khazaeli, ArchCity Defenders co-counsel on kettling cases.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gq.com/story/what-is-kettling/amp
Police do this for exactly these kind of reactions. When I see this sort of police presence at protests I feel like we don't have a first amendment.
Kaleva
(36,294 posts)The Vietnam War and Civil Rights protests pissed off people, many were arrested, and a few even killed but they were effective.
brooklynite
(94,489 posts)Kaleva
(36,294 posts)The anti-war, civil rights and pro-union protests generated a great deal of hostility and some were killed but results were achieved.
brooklynite
(94,489 posts)...rather than businesses, elected officials and politicians?
Kaleva
(36,294 posts)You had neighbor pitted against neighbor. Those who wanted the mines to stay open so they'd have a job and those who supported the strikes in an effort to improve working conditions and such. The mines were the economic lifeblood of the region and when they were shut down, most everyone was affected. It's been said that the bodies of the murdered are still at the bottom of the air shafts of the long closed down mines.
Buckeye_Democrat
(14,853 posts)... didn't help them either.
Someone will needlessly die inside an ambulance eventually, if it hasn't happened already.
LuckyCharms
(17,425 posts)You're blocked between exits , for example, so there is no way to take an alternate route.
1) You've been unemployed for over a year, and you are driving to a competitive interview for your dream job that you think you have a very good chance of getting.
2) You have just parked your car somewhere. You have a friend of yours with you. You leave your parked car to go out jogging on a jogging route that you and your friend run a few times a week. While starting your run, your friend has a very severe allergic reaction to some environmental stimuli. Their throat is closing as a result of the reaction, and they are struggling to breathe. No time to call an ambulance. You manage to get them back to your car to drive them to the hospital. Now you are stuck on the highway, between exits, with no escape, and your friend is starting to pass out. (I type this because this happened to a friend of mine once when we were out running. I was literally driving up on the sidewalk to avoid stopped traffic in order to get her to the hospital).
3) You are grocery shopping with your elderly mother, and while driving home on the highway, she turns pale and dizzy, and says she has chest pains. You decide to drive her to the ER because it is only one exit away. but you are blocked between the exits.
4) Your wife is in labor. You are driving her to the hospital. You now are stuck between exits.
I don't think blocking a highway is a very good idea. Sure, it's a good way to call attention to your cause, but it can be more than an inconvenience...it can cost lives.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,316 posts)Is the goal of a protest to get observers to support a cause? Not usually.
MenloParque
(512 posts)But I have to hear snarky comments from my conservative colleagues every time there a road closure due to protestors. Ughhh!!! I cant believe in progressive SF Bay Area and a top IT company Im surrounded by Right Winger Gun humpers!! I guess teenage government hatin hacker types have to work somewhere when they grow older.
All this does is piss off the public to your cause. Americans support protests but expect rules to be followed when doing so.
tenderfoot
(8,425 posts)TheRealNorth
(9,475 posts)If we could spin that as the narrative because only RW gun-humpers were doing it.
Bettie
(16,086 posts)about nearly every protest.
Of course, no one seems to mind heavily armed white people who are angry that they can't get haircuts and go to bars, that's cool.
But boy howdy, Black and Brown people protesting in literally any way pisses off a whole lot of people.
So, please, do tell, what is the "appropriate" form of protest that will inconvenience or annoy no one?
0rganism
(23,937 posts)yeah some people are going to get inconvenienced and some are going to harden their hearts as a result, but sometimes a message can't be heard otherwise
same with rioting and vandalism -- these are (often, not always) the voices of the unheard and the under-represented speaking in terms that maybe bring some awareness, if not sympathy
TheRealNorth
(9,475 posts)But congratulations for having your message heard. Although I am not sure the message being communicated is the same as what you intended.
0rganism
(23,937 posts)i think you misunderstood my post but that happens sometimes.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Time to move your goalposts.
roman88
(52 posts)I'd have to say no to an extent. Blocking traffic as an immediate response is effective, but to continue to do it everyday for a prolonged period of time is not only a good way to piss off those who'd lend thier support, it also shows a lack of planning for further action on part of the group protesting. I've been in many situations where organizers didn't know what to do next after having the spotlight on them or fellow protestors break off to do thier own thing or heckle bystanders (which is a big NO NO imo).
Basically if protesting stops at blocking traffic then its a sloppy effort at best.
Rhiannon12866
(205,161 posts)The local gathering we had to protest caging immigrant children was disrupted by a handful of Trump supporters - with a megaphone - who got into the street (the main road through town) and stopped traffic. The few hundred of us protesters stayed out of the streets, respected the largely benign police presence and carried signs while we listened to speakers. They spoiled it for the rest of us from then on.
Wanderlust988
(509 posts)Sometimes that is what it takes. You gotta make people uncomfortable sometimes in order to get attention and get things done. If you only hold up signs downtown in a city park, you are most often ignored. Sometimes you gotta get into good trouble to get things done.
And continue doing so until the 'authorities' are so totally pissed off that they adress the reason for protest.
I have to agree.