Nowadays when someone tells me they're a Christian...

[alterfurz]

[Silent3]

1. I don't often hear liberal Christians call themselves Christians...

...because right wing nutjobs have so completely co-opted the word.

[JHB]

4. If you really want to open fissures...

...maneuver a conversation to where an evangelical blurts out "Well, Catholics aren't Christians".

Better still if you can get it on camera and circulate the video.

[tblue37]

9. They also don't consider Mormons Christians. nt

[Polybius]

32. And Jehovah's Witnesses

Probably others too.

[Silent3]

10. Catholics are close enough to "Christian" when they are anti-abortion, anti-gay zealots

...for the other right wing Christians to kinda, sorta accept them.

And/or toadies for Trump, like Barr.

[JHB]

14. The key there is "sort of"

What I'm suggesting is to make the anti-Catholic part more visible.

Visible enough that Republican politicians get publicly asked "Do you think Catholics are Christians, or not?" Especially in areas where the "wrong" answer could cost them votes.

Use their own bigotries against them.

[Crash2Parties]

24. They'll team up readily enough

Catholic clergy joined with Mormon clergy to create California's Prop 8.
Starting in 2010-ish, Catholic priests, bishops & archbishops began a Johnson Amendment violating effort to campaign for Republican candidates by name. They went so far as to buy half page editorial section ads, put up YouTube videos, preach from the pulpit and send home fliers with the weekly bulletin. All teaching that if Believers didn't vote for [Republican candidate name] they would "risk their eternal soul". It was a hard shift to the right based solely on their anti-abortion and anti-LGBT stance (both of which are based on misogyny).

We're at the point now where the main difference between the two is that the RCC is international and cannot afford to appear to be racist. American Evangelicals, despite attempts to export to Africa & a few other countries, remain a primarily American phenomenon and have become nearly synonymous with white supremacy.

[hunter]

69. I was directly involved it the Prop 8 mess and got into a fight with our local bishop.

He threw a bunch of money into the Prop 8 cause to "control the hateful narrative," or something like that. I have the letter he sent me.

He succeeded in silencing the most vile of the anti-LGBT scum but his message was still hateful.

At that point I remembered my mom who got into a literal bitch slapping fight with the local bishop when I was a kid. It was a seriously bad cat fight, claws and blood. Shortly after my mom was ghost writing a book for someone who'd been abused by the Catholic clergy.



Sometimes it's best to walk, or run, away.

When I was a kid we were living in Franco's Spain when my mom decided to tell one of Franco's men exactly what she thought of him. My dad couldn't sleep that night so we packed all our stuff in the van and left for France.

In any case, the Bishop I fought with is gone, and I'm still here.

My youngest child and I collected pickup trucks full of pro-proposition 8 signs which we separated into metal and plastic and dumped into the recycling bins.

My child is courageous in a way I've never been, knocking on doors and telling people their Prop H8 signs were offensive. Which is how the signs ended up in my truck.

[jayfish]

31. I Was In Just Such A Conversation Last week.

I didn't get it on video.

[fierywoman]

35. Listen, when I lived in Italy, I (a lapsed Methodist) was accused of not being a X-ian.

[txwhitedove]

38. Wow, exactly! Once sat beside my So.Baptist mother-in-law at a Catholic wedding and

heard her mutter about them being pagans. I gagged but didn't say a word. 😬

[Mossfern]

44. That's not a compliment?

[txwhitedove]

61. Ha, I would say it was, but obviously she didn't think much of them.

[JHB]

70. That's what I mean. Put that attitude out where people will see it...

A religious version of "It's not new, it's just being filmed."

And once it's "out there," where it gets talked about in the media, get conservative politicians on record about it. Ask them the question, push them to give a straight answer, and highlight their evasions.

If they answer one way it will piss off the muttering MiLs, if they answer the other way, it'll piss off Catholics, and wheedling evasiveness will piss off both.

In some areas their choice will be easy due to the local numbers, but they'll be on record in a way that will work against them if they try for higher office and need broader appeal.

[hunter]

60. Most especially the leftist Catholics.

The evangelical Christians are quite comfy with the fascist Catholics.

[grobertj]

11. I'm a Democrat BECAUSE I am a Christian

And I don't hesitate to tell people both. Have you ever heard of Christian Democrats of America? If not, google it.

[rwsanders]

21. Nice to find others!

I used to be in a house church and they allowed me to put together a teaching on the environment. Their jaws literally dropped with the scriptures I presented.
When I asked to do one on war they firmly declined.
My favorite trick though is to offer to go through the issues one by one and compare the positions of democrats and republicans to the Bible. I've been turned down by pastors and bible school graduates. Just lil ole me and my better than average reading comprehension!

[phylny]

36. Me too!!

💕

[niyad]

46. My dearest friend (and sister DU'er) liked to point out that she was a left-wing Christian

evangelical. She said she was the worst nightmare of the rwnj's. I can just imagine her commentary on what the zealots and funnies are doing these days.

[LAS14]

65. Might I suggest also SOJO.net? They're not only Christian, they're evangelical.

I'm not evangelical, but I respect them up the Wazoo.

[Steelrolled]

20. Those with a backbone call themselves Christians

Too many people afraid of what some people "might think".

[LAS14]

66. Absolutely! nt

[SWBTATTReg]

2. Ironic isn't it? It's literally down to 'Jesus' vs. trump. Should not be any hesitation what-so-

ever, but these people have been blinded by GOP dogma, fake drama right and left, etc. when it literally does all boil down to one thing and one thing only, the passing of the 2017 tax cut and jobs bill (what jobs?). The only real bill of substance passed by the republican controlled Congress and signed by the POS in the WH was this tax cut bill, where over 83% of all benefits went to the top 1% to 5% of top incomes in America (and some outside the US).

Why are the peons in the republican party supporting this party of the 1%ers? ... The 1%ers by the way, have been laying off people right and left, some now permanently, after of course they got their hefty benefits paid to them (in the first 3 covid virus bills to pass Congress).

[uponit7771]

3. K&R

[Bettie]

5. If they are proclaiming their religion

Nine times out of ten they are the Republican type.

[PJMcK]

6. They can call themselves anything they want

Matthew 7:16

Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

In my own experiences, mega-churches are the antithesis of Jesus' teachings. They preach the Gospel of Greed.

Objectively, it's quite remarkable to see otherwise rational, intelligent folks follow teachings that are the exact opposite of what Jesus taught.

[Lonestarblue]

47. That's because the mega church pastors give permission for their greed.

They want to be told they’re Christian so they can hoard their riches and insist that the poor should just work their way up the ladder as they did. Following the actual teachings of Jesus would cost them too much money. I think it’s Joel Osteen who tells followers that Jesus wants them to do well (code for be rich). Never mind that eye of a needle nonsense.

[Towlie]

7. ... or maybe Al Franken's Supply-Side Jesus.

https://www.google.com/search?&tbm=isch&q=al+franken+supply+side+jesus

[KS Toronado]

16. Here's a direct link...........

https://www.filmsforaction.org/watch/al-frankens-supply-side-jesus-an-animated-comic-strip/

[niyad]

49. I love your gif.

[GoneOffShore]

8. I go straight to Terry Pratchett -

“The figures looked more or less human. And they were engaged in religion. You could tell by the knives (it's not murder if you do it for a god).”
― Terry Pratchett, Small Gods

[Hekate]

13. My favorite philosopher & social commentator...

I love how part of the ceremonial outfit for the High Priest in Ankh-Morpork is a rubber apron. Sir Terry just follows the logic: sacrifice, knives, rubber apron.

GNU Terry Pratchett

[GoneOffShore]

43. I was introduced to PTerry's writing about 30 years ago. I've been a fan ever since.

[Hekate]

48. I know it's been well over 20 years for me, but can't remember exactly...

At a certain point I went on Amazon and collected all his books in hardcover, keeping the paperbacks in a box to loan out.

It’s always nice to meet a fellow fan of the Discworld.

[niyad]

51. When I would introduce people to TP's books, I always warned them of the dangers of reading them

in public places. One tends to get very odd looks when one is chortling, snickering, or laughing out loud. No sense of humor, some people.

[Hekate]

56. I have read that in his native country, you could tell who on the Tube had the latest Pratchett book

...by the very behaviors you mention.

In Witches Abroad, the running with the bulls section absolutely had me in stitches. The man clearly knew his Hemingway — and a whole lot else, enough to make a world. But in the same book, Magrat inadvertently killed the vampire with the help of Greebo; and Granny won back the money and Nanny Ogg’s broom from the riverboat gamblers; and

Oh shoot, now I have to go re-read it. The day is improving after all.

[niyad]

59. Exactly! Enjoy the rest of your day, tucked safely in Discworld!

[Mossfern]

45. Love Terry Pratchett

wish he was still with us.

[GoneOffShore]

53. Yes, totally miss his take on stuff. Though the 'Long Earth' novels were 'disappointing'.

[blueinredohio]

12. Are you a Christian if you have to tell peop!e you're a Christian?

[csziggy]

55. Good question - here is what the Bible (New Testament) has to say

James 2:14
What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?

Titus 1:16
They profess to know God, but by their deeds they deny Him, being detestable and disobedient and worthless for any good deed.

1 John 1:6
If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth;

1 John 2:6
the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.

Source: https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Claims

[Old Crank]

15. How fare back

Do we go for Classic Christian? Crusades, Toquemada, reformation?

[dchill]

26. Yeah, pick one - it'll fit.

[Crash2Parties]

34. I know this one!

A: Somewhere around 80-100 CE, a group of Roman generals and mayors got together to create a new roman empire out of the old one.
Since Roman society was based on a religious state with multiple gods & sub-gods, they decided to go with monotheism. So they appropriated the name & some teachings of the "Christists", an underground monarchist ("christ" means "king" in Latin) doomsday cult whose doomsday had passed. It was "underground" because Roman law & religion were so intertwined that publicly denouncing the religion denounced the civil authority structure as well and was thus illegal. Once appropriately weaponized, this made it the perfect anti-force for reshaping The Roman Empire into something new, rebadged as The Holy Roman Empire. The first few hundred years were marked with a relatively flat structure as local officials built up a local hierarchy. It wasn't until the first handful of Councils that they started unifying all that local power into a larger hierarchical structure & thus a true empire. Primary texts were standardize, rules drawn up and a unified message then allowed them to influence societies by reforming local serfdoms into religiously backed kingdoms. But all were still under the control of a centralized semi-stable power structure (or two).

So, I'd say "classic" would have to be the by-then-mostly-fictional Gospels only compiled after the Councils had created a single theology on which to base their Empire.

[malaise]

17. If someone tells me they are Christian

I check the silverware

[MontanaMama]

27. That post should have come with a warning, malaise.

I'm eating lunch at my desk...

[malaise]

29. ROFL

[rainin]

18. I like this, but I'd tweak it just a little and say 'Biblical Jesus or Trump Jesus'

I don't personally know a single Biblical Christian. Not a principled one in the bunch.

[RVN VET71]

68. "Biblical Christians" professed segregation

and denounced interracial relationships because the Bible, and Jesus, said keep the races apart lest your daughters become entranced by the rhythms of black jungle music and your sons turn away from the Lord and become gay dope users.

I've known christian men and women and none of them, not a one, ever wore their faith on their sleeve. They acted their faith, or tried to, every day. (Note: I haven't known many people like that. Actually just a few. OK, I have known exactly one couple, man and woman, like that, and they are extremely proud of their son and daughter, one of whom is gay. Couple as rare as a five leaf clover.)

[rainin]

71. good points. Tweaking further "jesus from the bible vs. trump-humping christians"

[Escurumbele]

19. Excellent, thank you

This must be sent to all your friends, and not friends

I am ready now to ask the question whenever someone tells me they are Christians, mostly when I have not asked.

[Aristus]

25. Welcome to DU.

I was once talking with one of those evangelical, pentacostal, charismatic, spirit-filled, Bible-believing (you know, all the ways they have of saying 'we are and you aren't' ) Christians, and she said "If you don't tell people you're a Christian within five minutes of meeting them, you're not a real Christian."

My response: "If I can't convince them by my actions, nothing I tell them will matter all that much."

[dchill]

28. It really shouldn't come up.

Nutshell.

[niyad]

67. Welcome to DU.

[rwsanders]

22. Thanks, love it!

[IronLionZion]

23. Biden is Christian, it was featured prominently in the convention

The Christian Left not only exists, but it's more love thy neighbor and less smiting and wrath.

[DFW]

30. It's a legitimate question

One poses no danger to anyone. The other poses a danger to LOTS of people.

[liberalla]

33. That little girl's expression is priceless!

[Delmette2.0]

37. 44 years ago I moved to a house, the neighbor described the former renter as a "Fine Christian Woman

I immediately rattled off all the garbage left in the cupboards and that the big black outdoor cockroaches were nesting in the drapes and chewing on the telephone wires. I asked my neighbor "Isn't cleanliness next to godliness?" She had no answer. This was in Oklahoma.

It also was another milepost on my way to atheism.

[fierywoman]

39. I was sure when I clecked on this that you were going to present Mrs Betty Bowers'

latest: How to spot a fake Christian in their natural habitat:

[GoCubsGo]

40. I have always just said, "Thanks for the warning."

[catbyte]

42. LOL.

That's what we Indians usually say. There's a reason that only 4% of Native Americans identify as "Christian."

[GoCubsGo]

57. For me, it's decades of living in the BuyBull Belt.

I also know to stay clear of any business that uses a "Jesus fish" in its advertising. I consider it a "We're going to rip you off" symbol.

[catbyte]

63. No kidding. They're the worst.

[Evolve Dammit]

41. Militant Agnostic. I don't know and you don't either. Or I tell 'em I'm a Zen Buddhist. Crickets...

[Upthevibe]

50. Hysterical! n/t

[niyad]

52. Every time I hear "I'm a Christian". "Plastic Jesus" in twang, pops into my head. MOST annoying.

Both the song and the announcement.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

64. Mojo Nixon and Jello Biafra do my favorite version of the song.

Though I entered adulthood in the 80s and will always have a place in my heart for the Dead Kennedys.

&ab_channel=JelloBiafra-Topic

[NNadir]

54. I try not to summon images of Fawell, his wife and the pool "boy."

[littlemissmartypants]

58. I just finished watching Frontline From Jesus to Christ: The First Christians

Synopsis of the Program
"From Jesus to Christ: The First Christians" tells the epic story of the rise of Christianity. The four hours explore the life and death of Jesus, and the men and women whose belief, conviction, and martyrdom created the religion we now know as Christianity.

Drawing upon historical evidence, the series challenges familiar assumptions and conventional notions about Christian origins. Archaeological finds have yielded new understandings of Jesus' class and social status; fresh interpretations have transformed earlier ideas about the identity of the early Christians and their communities.

Through engaging on-camera interviews with twelve scholars--New Testament theologians, archaeologists, and historians--the series presents their contributions to this intellectual revolution. For example they talk about the quest for the historical Jesus - what can we really know? And how do we know it?

The scholars together represent a range of viewpoints and diversity of faiths and a shared commitment to bring new ways of thinking about Christianity to a public audience. They discuss the value in a historical approach to Jesus and the Bible and whether Christian faith can be reconciled with such an approach.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/etc/synopsis.html

It was really interesting.

❤ lmsp

[LAS14]

62. Perfect! Did you come up with this yourself? nt

[alterfurz]

73. heard someone express similar phrasing...

...and then just added it to a popular meme photo template that seemed to fit.

[OregonBlue]

72. I run the other way. They are so scary.