The straw that broke the camel's back.

[Laelth]

This is it.

We have often speculated about what it might take to sever Donald Trump from his irrationally-devoted base. Was he right, we wondered, when he said he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and not lose a single voter? Was he right when he proved he could brag about grabbing women by their genitals and not lose his base? Was he right to assume that lying to the American people—over 20,000 times and counting—wouldn’t cause him to lose his loyal base of support?

For nearly four years it has appeared to us that Trump couldn’t lose his base no matter what he said or did. I think that changed today.

I would be willing to bet that 80% or more of Trump’s supporters (especially the Proud Bois, the Bugaloo Boys, and his vigilante wannabe warriors) are either ex-military, themselves, or closely related to one or more persons who served in the armed forces. What you CAN NOT do to those people is piss on the graves of their honored dead. THAT crosses the line.

Trump was on the right track with these folks when he was defending the statues of their honored dead (their exceptionalist history), but the recently released Atlantic article, unless denied and debunked, paints Trump into a corner that will significantly damage his standing with his militant, white, poorly-educated, and highly-patriotic base.

You can’t call our war heroes losers. You can’t ask why they bothered to fight if there was nothing in it for them. You can’t call them suckers and refuse to honor their sacrifice just because you don’t want to get your hair wet. You especially have no right to hold such beliefs if you are a five-time draft-dodger.

Trump just crossed the line with many of his most devoted supporters, and I imagine that Trump’s support will dwindle SIGNIFICANTLY as a result.

-Laelth

[msongs]

1. one wonders if there is audio or video of him saying this nt

[Laelth]

10. Presumably not.

I want to see Joe, The Lincoln Project, and all our allies hammer this issue.

Even if Trump has to deny it (and there are multiple sources available to refute his denial), we win. His having to deny making these statements will give the issue greater exposure.

I think we should run with this one if we want to see an LBJ-style 1964 electoral landslide.

-Laelth

[onecaliberal]

14. At least 4 sources are confirming they heard it first hand.

[Laelth]

35. Precisely.

The article is strong.

-Laelth

[onecaliberal]

46. It is very strong. One gets the sense they may come forward if push comes to shove.

Goldberg even admits He didn’t believe the story when he first heard it. It wasn’t until he started making calls and it was confirmed. And then confirmed again and again. It’s a new low, but not really. 185,000 dead. I’m not sure that people are keeping track of it anymore.

[Withywindle]

115. It's totally in line with what he said about John McCain

which IS on the public record, the whole country can see and hear it. It wasn't an isolated incident. That is really how he feels about those who fought and died and suffered. Not just indifference, but active contempt.

So I don't know why Goldberg found it so hard to believe. It's very easy to believe. That's the kind of POS the POTUS is.

[smirkymonkey]

129. +1000

[markpkessinger]

157. Yes, but the Trumper response to this is . . .

. . . to point out that 5 current and former staffers who claim to have been there at the time say it didn't happen.

It frankly doesn't matter how strong the evidence is -- these people believe Trump because they want to believe him, and are heavily emotionally invested in doing so. Thus it will be nearly impossible to convince them otherwisel

[Eyeball_Kid]

92. More than anything, this forces Trumpy- Boy

into a defensive posture. He can’t attack without looking guilty as charged. There is too much corroboration. Half of those serving in the armed forces dislike him as it is. This story will send them into a frenzy. Our Commander in Chief thinks we’re suckers for putting our lives on the line FOR OUR COUNTRY.

I hope all you Trumpers suck this one in. Taste it on the way down.

[Laelth]

102. Hear! Hear! n/t

-Laelth

[markpkessinger]

158. Don't you see that it simply wouldn't matter to these folks?

If there were an audio or video, they would rationalize it away the same way they did with the Billy Bush audio. These folks are profoundly emotionally invested in supporting Trump. They believe him because they desperately want to believe him, and no amount of evidence is likely to convince them otherwise.

[lapfog_1]

2. wanna bet

the cult will reject this story as "left wing MSM fake stories"

[Laelth]

15. Initially, perhaps.

But these statements will be difficult for Trump to deny, and, even if he denies them, it gives the issue exposure. The Atlantic article is well-sourced. It’s awfully believable. Regardless, I think it will hurt Trump with his base in a way that his mismanagement, sociopathy, sadism, selfishness, and lying have not.

-Laelth

[regnaD kciN]

30. He doesn't have to deny them, he just has to ignore them...

...and his followers will do it too. And, of course, presenting them with the facts will just get them waved off as "more anti-Trump propaganda from the desperate liberal media."

[Laelth]

33. He will want to distract, agreed.

He doesn’t want to talk about this, agreed, but any reporter could bring it up (and I suspect that one or more will), and Joe could bring it up in the debates (and I hope he does).

We’ll see.

-Laelth

[hurple]

103. Yep

Already seeing it happen all over my FB feed...

[lastlib]

105. Looking into my crystal ball.....

I see Iran "suddenly" attacking an American naval vessel........

or some such distraction....

[Laelth]

118. That's entirely possible. n/t

-Laelth

[ego_nation]

19. They already are.

[Takket]

37. they will.......

drumpf has always said "you cannot believe anything with anonymous sources. it is all fake news" and his supports will just write this off immediately. but hopefully it will help push more vets into Biden's camp.

[Mick Travis]

72. I agree unfortunately

There is NOTHING that will break the hypnotic trance Trump has over his cult followers.

[Laelth]

86. Ye of little faith.

Maybe this time will be different.

Hope springs eternal.



-Laelth

[Eyeball_Kid]

98. If his happy crew of believers

gets wind of this article, some of them might catch a corroborative statement, then a few other quotes, etc. The entire story is quite credible. No one should expect an entire desertion away from the Trump Party. Realistically, a 5-10% shift would be historic and would guarantee a landslide.

[Laelth]

99. Absolutely, and I would happily take a 5% shift.

That would guarantee a landslide.

Let us hope.



-Laelth

[Stuart G]

131. Yes, I believe there will be at least 5% shift after this story is totally varified.

Four sources say this is true. Trump can lie, and say that he didn't say this, but that will not work.
I think this story insures the landslide.

[progressoid]

80. Yep. They'll find a way to link it to George Soros.

[Sherman A1]

139. Agreed

This will peal off a few but not very many.

[oswaldactedalone]

3. Not sure about this

Trump will lie about saying it, call it fake news, and his supporters will eat it up. I’d like to think that he’ll lose some votes but no guarantee.

[Laelth]

21. Of course he will call it fake news.

Last edited Thu Sep 3, 2020, 10:58 PM - Edit history (1)

But it isn’t. The article is well-sourced, and no fewer than 5 people could come out and say, “Yes. That’s exactly what he said.” These accusations will be difficult for Trump to deny, and even his denials will give his unpatriotic statements broader exposure and increased coverage.

The rats are probably ready to jump ship. This might be just the excuse that they need.

-Laelth

[rufus dog]

42. Can I respectfully give you some advice?

I'll assume yes. You are projecting.

You think because you have morals, are a decent person, that tRump supporters have morals, are decent people. They aren't.

Now are you or I better off because of what we believe they have in their heart? I could argue it both ways. I would love it for you to be correct, that they aren't horrible people. In November 2016 I finally gave up on them. It is dark, really fucking dark, but I believe they are the biggest enemy to Western Democracies that I have seen in my lifetime. Until they prove me wrong, and show minimal decency, I will continue to hold my belief.

[Laelth]

73. I admit to being subject to projection.

I project my inherent “goodness” (for lack of a better word, and as cocky as that may sound) upon the world. I know this (now). It took a long time to learn this lesson, and this habit has been the source of significant misery and pain in my life.

Thank you for the well-intentioned comment and advice.

But don’t you think that a good number of people on the right (not all, obviously, but a goodly number) are ready to jump ship, and wouldn’t Trump’s pissing on the memory of our honored dead be a sufficient excuse to allow them to do so?



-Laelth

[rufus dog]

81. I really hope you are right

It just sucks to believe friends, family members, neighbors, on on on, are so horrible. But for my mental state, I had to take the opposite approach from you.

Babies in cages didn't get them. Yesterday I had a text going with an ex and current neighbor regarding the Rittenhouse situation. The ex-neighbor went down the self defense approach, as expected.

Let's agree on this, we can work together and be the Yin and Yang. You hug them, I'll punch them. Not at the same time of course.

[Laelth]

84. I'm not hugging any of them. No way.

But I can empathize with them. I try to understand how they think, and I sense that Trump’s dishonoring our military dead will have a significant effect on the psyches of many of them—perhaps not enough to get them to embrace Biden, but maybe enough to get them to stay home.

Or, so I hope.



-Laelth

[rufus dog]

85. Good for you

I can't promise that I won't punch them.

[Laelth]

87. I wouldn't mind if you did. n/t

-Laelth

[doc03]

59. I figure this to be just another of a hundred stories we get all excited about. Unless like you say

no fewer than 5 people come forward and confirm it. Even then he will say it is fake news and his cult won't
believe it. Everyone that he has fired has told us how incompetent and stupid he is they have ever wrote books
but nothing sticks.

[Laelth]

82. This just crosses a sacred line with his base, I think.

It appears that most of his followers positively adore the fact that he’s an a**hole. Nothing he has done so far seems to bother them, but I suspect that pissing on the graves of our honored military dead will be enough for many of his followers to, at least, question voting for him.

The sane ones, I assume, are actually looking for a good excuse to bail on this lunatic at the helm of our ship of state, and this offense might just be enough.

We’ll see; I suppose.



-Laelth

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

4. Maybe, but his fluffers will dismiss it as fake news, and the MAGAts

are likely to swallow that explanation. We'll see. I'm hoping enough veterans raise enough hell to make a difference.

[Laelth]

24. I assume that many rats are ready to jump ship.

This might be just the excuse they need.

We’ll see.



-Laelth

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

26. I hope you're right.

[regnaD kciN]

32. I think any who wanted to "jump ship" did it long before now...

Those who continue to support Trump, even before this revelation, are die-hards who will never abandon him.

[Acornsouth]

93. If Russians putting bounty's on their heads wasn't enough.....

what makes you think this will be the backbreaker?.... They will not care as long as their "Dear Leader" continues his hate filled rants

[dflprincess]

5. I doubt if many in Trump's base pay attention to "The Atlantic"

and, unless Hannity reports it, they won't believe it.

[DarthDem]

16. It's been picked up by the AP now

So they might not be able to avoid it. However, I agree that it won't convince those who act like cultists. However, if anyone's wavering, this will hurt Trump in their eyes. It's unforgivable.

[Laelth]

27. Precisely.

As I said above, I am guessing that a large number of rats are ready to jump ship. This might be just the excuse that they need.

-Laelth

[enough]

6. If they didn't care about the McCain comment, they aren't going to care about any of this.

[Laelth]

122. Somehow, I sense that this is different.

McCain didn’t count as “the honored dead” for many Republicans, but when Trump dissed whole graveyards full of our war heroes, he dissed the ACTUAL RELATIVES of millions of Americans, many of whom are his own supporters.

-Laelth

[electric_blue68]

7. I sure hope you're right;

I did hear that someone (didn't catch their name) corroborated the core of that Atlantic reporter's article.

[nolabear]

8. Oh yeah. He was just on Rachel. Ex marine. And PISSED.

I think this one might get corroboration.

[Leghorn21]

17. James LaPorta, blue - AP reporter, former Marine infantryman

A senior Defense Department official I just spoke with confirmed this story by
@JeffreyGoldberg in its entirety. Especially the grafs about the late Sen. John McCain and former Marine Gen. John Kelly, President @realDonaldTrump former chief of staff.

Link to tweet

[electric_blue68]

25. Thanks!

[Eid Ma Clack Shaw]

9. I disagree. If the devoted had to chose between the lives of all their loved ones & voting for Trump

they would pick voting for Trump every single time. This might - and only if there is a recording - turn away a considerable portion of the small % of Trump voters who fall outside of that category, but it will probably improve his standing with the true believers. Even a recording of him saying worse things about deceased soldiers would probably be seen by them as proof that he is the most patriotic hero of all time; you could have all the evidence in the world, but if he denies it, it never happened. Audio, video, doesn’t matter because his is the most dedicated and dangerous cult in the world.

[regnaD kciN]

38. I hate to have to make this analogy...

...because I know someone whose godchild was among the victims of Jonestown, but this is a little like saying that killing Congressman Ryan had to be the last straw that would make the members of the People's Temple refuse to drink the Kool-Aid.

[JDC]

11. One would think. It will most likely be chalked up as "fake news"

Unless there are tapes/audio. And even then, his cult doesn't care.

[ooky]

12. They didn't care when he dishonored McCain, and

they didn't care when he said nothing about the Russian bounties, and they didn't care when he dishonorably abandoned the Kurds and left them for slaughter.

I'd really like to believe this will take him down, but my gut says he'll just lie about and Republicans will remain silent again, and his approval will remain about 40%.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

31. I agree.

He might lose a small percentage, but it won't be significant at all.

[regnaD kciN]

40. What it MIGHT WELL do...

...is energize non-Trumper military types to vote for Biden, even if they worry about him being "too liberal."

[Laelth]

41. All true, but ...

... the state of the nation is so bad right now that I assume a sizeable number of sane rats actually WANT to jump ship. They just need a good excuse. This might be enough.

-Laelth

[ooky]

60. It certainly can't hurt. I do agree we can expect a few to

jump off and stay home, or vote for a Libertarian. Maybe even enough to push us over the finish line in a tight battleground state. Let's hope.

[Mariana]

56. They've hated McCain since he lost to Obama in 2008.

They don't have anything nice to say about McCain, and they don't give a damn what anyone says about him. This really isn't the same as that.

However, I think you're right, and this will turn very few of them against Trump.

[electric_blue68]

13. May be different this time .. at least somewhat...

perhaps McCain was too "moderate" for many of these people.

He just dissed all these injured and died in relatively recently (20 yrs) to the current war vs Viwtnam.

It might be the breaking straw for some - hopefully enough of them;

[Laelth]

44. McCain was a moderate, and he was still alive.

The honored dead are far more sacred, and Trump dissed them—hardcore.

-Laelth

[doc03]

18. It will have zero affect unless they have an actual video and the vast majority will

say it was fake.

[Laelth]

47. If this story gets legs, it will be ugly for Trump.

The article is well-sourced. The allegations contained in it will be difficult to deny. We just need to focus on this betrayal of the armed forces so that the issue can not be ignored.

-Laelth

[qazplm135]

20. nah, no audio, no video, no high level person coming out and verifying

it will all just be fake news and deep state blah blah blah.

Trump voters don't want to know, they actively do not want to be exposed to what Trump truly is.

[nolabear]

49. It's early yet.

[qazplm135]

62. well if someone has audio or video

or Kelly comes out and verifies...that will help, but they will just say Kelly is bitter at being fired and move on.

There's nothing tougher than purposeful cognitive dissonance.

[Wounded Bear]

22. Don't count on it...

He's been doing all of that from the beginning. He won't lose any of his base, they don't give a shit.

This should move some of the soft middle, though. Trump will still get 35-40%. Book that.

We need to GOTV like never before.

[Laelth]

69. I am not counting on it, but I do believe it.

Trump (finally) crossed a line with his own base that will be difficult for them to forgive.

I must assume, given the dismal state in which this once-proud nation finds itself, that the sane rats on the right are looking for any good excuse to jump ship. Perhaps blatantly pissing on the graves of our honored dead will be enough for a significant number of them.



-Laelth

[MyOwnPeace]

127. I agree, Wounded..........

if they didn't dump him after locking up kids in cages, this isn't gonna' make them change now.
They have a "bull-headed" determination to support him at this point.

My GAWD, I'm seeing "shrines" being put up in my "red" county to support him - banners, flags, and yard-signs.

[JI7]

23. No. his supporters don't care. He has a history of treating soldiers like shit

but it might get some republicans that didn't like him to actually vote Biden instead of not voting or voting something like third party.

[regnaD kciN]

28. I doubt it will make much of a difference...

I have a friend from back in college, who went on to have a long military career, and now has a daughter serving as well. I knew he'd turned pretty conservative since joining the service, but, at least a few years ago, he was posting negative comments about Trump and his ties to Russia. Recently, he's gone full QAnon; I stopped him seeing my Facebook posts a few days ago, after he replied to something I had posted with the flat-out statement that Biden (who, I guess, he's sure has turned far left since his days as VP) would, if elected, not only confiscate everyone's guns but also "outlaw churches." When you're that far down the rabbit hole, I doubt any disrespect shown to fallen soldiers would even move the needle a bit; people like him see themselves in an existential battle for their own survival, and are convinced a Trump defeat would mean the end for them, so of course they're going to back him to the bitter end, no matter what he says or does.

[czarjak]

29. Self-professed "great Christians" never are!

Last edited Fri Sep 4, 2020, 12:38 AM - Edit history (1)

[regnaD kciN]

51. I'd be careful with the generalizations...

I'm a "self-professed Christian" (and a cleric, for that matter). Sorry to not fit into your pigeonhole.

[kcr]

71. Well, you're a cleric, so how would you fit in that "pigeonhole"?

I'm not a cleric but even I can see that Trump doesn't behave like a sincere, devout Christian, no matter what he calls himself.

[czarjak]

106. My apologies...

Forgot to include the entire comment. Self-professed great Christians never are. Either way, not his decision is the point. Correct me if I’m wrong. Cleric?

[steve2470]

34. for the ones more connected to reality, I agree

The rest ? They will just say it's all lies and a "deep state conspiracy" and dismiss it.

[IcyPeas]

36. If it's not covered on fox news

It never happened , his base won't even hear about this.

[Laelth]

119. So far, this story has gotten pretty broad coverage.

I don’t know about Fox. I don’t watch it.



-Laelth

[rufus dog]

39. In 2016 I kept thinking the same thing.

tRump did X, this will finally be the off ramp, his supporters will exit now.

They never fucking exited!!!!

So, you can keep thinking they will be moral and exit.

After the election, I came to the conclusion that they will never fucking exit.

Palin should have been an exit point for any logical person, but you need to realize, they hate liberals more than just about anything. There is no straw, there is no exit. 40% of the American population is hate filled assholes fueled by talk radio and Fox News. That means 80% of repukes are deplorable.

They will blame it on Dark Forces living in the Shadows, if there is audio or video proof, they will claim it was manipulated.

I hope I am wrong, but to date, I haven't been proven wrong when it comes to the deplorable depths that repukes will dive.

[misanthrope]

43. Not even

His base is ossified now. They will believe his denials.

[brooklynite]

45. Absolutely wrong...

There is NO evidence that a substantial number of the white nationalist/militia members have served in the military. And since it'll be described as "fake news" they have no reason to believe it.

[LiberalFighter]

50. That is my thought too. They want others to think they were but they wouldn't pass muster.

[Laelth]

54. I will politely disagree.

I know a lot of these people. I live among a lot of them in East Texas. All the ones I know, and I mean ALL of them, either served in the military themselves or had a parent, a spouse, or sibling who did (not to mention aunts, uncles, cousins, and grandparents).

That’s just been my experience. There must be some exceptions. I simply have not met them yet.

-Laelth

[Atticus]

58. While I believe it is true that all militia types are Trump supporters, not all Trump

supporters are militia types.

No one hopes to convert these Dead Enders, but I think Trump's utter disrespect of our dead and wounded military personnel may indeed stampede a sizable number of Republicans away from Trump.

[LiberalFighter]

48. The ones remaining will likely be like that Rittenhouse kid and others...

that pretend to be macho with their military style firearms.

[greenjar_01]

52. This is the first salvo, if anything

This is Kelly's shot. More are coming. Mattis will save his for late October.

Did you think lifelong street fighters like Mattis, Kelly, Tillerson were going to brook being derided by a nitwit coward like Trump? Why are older stories coming out now, the trip to the hospital, this Atlantic piece? The people with an axe to grind saved it, aiming to start the Fall Offensive in September. And here we are. More coming.

Lots more.

[Laelth]

66. Music to my ears.

Bring it on!



-Laelth

[Atticus]

53. I don't know if your OP is right, but I know it should be. Well said and, hopefully, prescient. nt

[Laelth]

64. Thank you, my friend. n/t

-Laelth

[jayfish]

55. I'll Believe It When I See It.-NT-

[Celerity]

57. this all will have close to zero effect on the MAGAts, Sarah Huckster Sanders is already trashing it

for instance and 99 percent of the vermin will follow suit

they are brainwashed to a insane degree

Link to tweet

[catrose]

61. And we believe Sarah because why again?

[Celerity]

65. not us, obviously, THEM, the RW nt

[Laelth]

63. What happens when the article's sources say ...

... “Yes. It is true. I heard him say that?”

Either way, it’s ugly for Trump. I want to hear him deny it ... over, and over, and over.

If any issue is going to separate Trump from his solid base, this is it.

-Laelth

[Celerity]

70. You are underestimating the brainwashing IMHO, as there is a profound chasm between

their world views and reality.

Even if there was video and tapes they would claim fake news.

Trump will soon be calling it fake news, I would bet my life on that.

And his legions of goons will lap it up like mother's milk. They are fucking permanently brainwashed. The country is too divided, even if Trump is defeated and tossed out on his arse, the centre will not hold, there is going to be a great rending apart of the union within 20 years max. Parts of the US Constitution will end up being a suicide pact.



btw

I SO hope I am wrong, dead wrong.

[Laelth]

76. Fair.

Thanks for the response.



-Laelth

[Celerity]

77. thanks for you great posts

[bdamomma]

67. Hopefully

this is 'emperor has no clothes" moment.

[ecstatic]

68. That won't be the last straw, but I know what will

Right now they are freaking the f*ck out at the idea of the military forcefully injecting them with vaccines which were cooked up in Bill Gate's lab (with the help of Dr. Fauci). This is what they fear, and this is what is slowly making the rounds on facebook. If enough of them believe it, trump is done.

[Laelth]

123. Interesting.

That’s an absurd and unrealistic fear, but I can easily imagine many Republicans sharing that fear.

-Laelth

[VOX]

74. When white supremacy is on the line, the camel's back is unbreakable.

It’s why 45’s moronic supporters stick with him in spite of all the horrendous, anti-American crap that their cult leader says and does.

They feel the illusion of their white supremacy slipping away, which is why they’re pushing back with a reptilian survival frenzy.

45 can be thanked for ONE thing: he dropped the “polite” mask of the racist/sexist GOP, and showed the world the ugly depths to which the Republican Party will stoop to retain white-skin value. That’s their raison d’etre, their core issue; everything else is a sideshow. (Although they’re wrong about everything else, too.)

[radius777]

149. Nailed it. This is what animates the RW,

even pre-Trump, it's just that he says the quiet parts out loud.

The majority of whites will throw away democracy itself (and will side with dictators like Putin) to maintain white supremacy. There are also some non-whites who will choose to be 'house slaves' and side with the RW. None of these people are abandoning Trump for any reason.

However, a story like this could have an impact with moderate Repubs and independents who are on the fence. Such voters tend to view issues of national security and the military to be very important, and Biden actually is more conservative (and more establishment) than Trump on these issues.

[Gothmog]

75. From the Hoarse Whisperer

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[Laelth]

100. Excellent! n/t

-Laelth

[USALiberal]

78. Lol, how many posts on DU have predicted "He is done"?????

[Laelth]

89. I know. I know.

I just think that this offense is one that might register with even his most-devoted followers.

We’ll see.



-Laelth

[USALiberal]

91. Of course I hope you are correct. Nt

[hibbing]

79. I wish it yo be true, but nope n/t

[flibbitygiblets]

83. I pray you are correct, Laelth. Because if this isn't "it",

then I think we all know what comes next: The deplorables also turn against the military. Sounds crazy, but so does willingly pretending that a global epidemic isn't happening and that 185K dead is some kind of left-wing machination.

That could mean the the poor, uneducated people who typically join the military won't do so in the future. Hard to be a military superpower if you don't have a ready supply of volunteer recruits.

Putin's dream come true.

[SoonerPride]

88. Nope

Sadly he will not lose any support from his 40% base

[fishwax]

90. John Kelly took the chief of staff job *after* the comments about his son

I mean, I'd like to believe you're right about this, but I'm going to have to see some actual evidence before I'll buy that his base is ever going to find their way out.

[world wide wally]

94. Two things I am fairly certain of...

1 it will hurt Trump more than it hurts him
2 it will effect at least some of his turnout.

[DrToast]

95. No, this won't put a dent in the base

But it will do damage for those few remaining undecided voters.

More importantly, we'll probably see a steady drip of these stories from now until the election. It looks like it was strategically timed.

[Awsi Dooger]

96. No chance

Republicans don't operate the same way. It's like a car that rejects gas or batteries but runs solely on a mixture of lies, fear, stupidity and hatred of liberals

[JohnnyRingo]

97. New rule: Trump supporters will now spit upon the war dead.

I really think it's like a doomsday cult. Nothing he does can dissuade them.

[electric_blue68]

101. Having read more replies...

I think maybe a few to maaaybe some will change their minds.

I totally acknowledge VOX's point about the unbreakable bond between because of his and their racism. I think most of them are serious racists.

Which is why I think a few and very much hedging my bets about the quantity of some.

And who knows... Maybe it'll be a few here and there in the the right place - district to county to State. Like dominoes.

NOT betting on it ... We need GOTV on steroids!

And thanks greenjar for your reminders about Mattis, and Kelly.
Matbe they will flip a few more.

[peacebuzzard]

104. One would only hope and think this would be true for all concerned.

But deep down south, unfortunately there are so many misinformed and ill-informed and just brain dead folks that cannot think coherently.

I live in the midst of many fools.

But fortunately the main intention of the OP is that this is a turning point for many. I do believe it is.
But Dumbf will still pick up electoral votes, and the Marsha Blackburn crowd is alive and well, but staying low often.
But he is losing more every day with the dumb shit things that just fall out of his trap.

There are still quite a few "but, for's"

[MrScorpio]

107. That is if his cultists actually believe that he said it.

They can simply deny that he did in order to maintain their support of him.

[Willto]

108. Won't Matter

I'd love to believe that there was such a thing as a straw that breaks the camels back with this ass clown but I have lost hope. A video of him saying it might have a little more weight but his minions will simply dismiss any claims based on anonymous sources as fake news.

Hell, there is video of him saying what he said about McCain and POW's and what effect did that have? Instead of turning his cultists against him it made them hate McCain more. I have never seen a less deserving person more adored by a group of people in my life.

[aggiesal]

109. Does he have an (R) next to his name on the ballot? ...

Yes?
Then he won't lose a vote, as long as that (R) is giving it to those libs, we'll vote for him!!!

Unless there is audio or video confirming that message, they'll write it off as fake news.

[MadLinguist]

110. Readers of "Stars n Stripes" aren't gonna be reading the Atlantic

just sayin'

[Laelth]

130. They won't be reading "Stars n Stripes" much longer, either.

I am sure that will go over well with our service-members.

-Laelth

[MadLinguist]

135. yeah i just saw the report that the pentagon is ordering Stars n Stripes to cease

Tell me what fascism looks like. This is what fascism looks like
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/outcry-as-pentagon-orders-stars-and-stripes-newspaper-to-shut-down/ar-BB18IcXo?li=BBnb7Kz

[summer_in_TX]

111. One difference is this wasn't aimed at one person but all of them.

Trump's blasting of McCain could be ignored as a personal vendetta, and his smear of Kazir Khan, well that could be dismissed as crass and bad, but still aimed at an individual.

This is very different.

Plus, and this is important, many Trump voters are not cultists. They are conservative, they think he's been unfairly treated by mainstream media, never given credit for anything good he's ever done. They'd vote for him again because they think he deserves credit for a number of things. I just got a list of the things one conservative acquaintance especially credits Trump with. But he isn't a cultist at all, and many in the military who lean very conservative and have a heard time imagining voting for a Democrat, aren't cultists either.

I have hope that it will move the needle for enough people to make it a crushing defeat on November 3.

[Laelth]

128. +1

It was aimed at the relatives of over half the American people. This will sting.

-Laelth

[BannonsLiver]

112. I think it is significant

One poster who was on the Wisconsin freak our train last weekend ( and is almost always wrong with their alarmist hot takes about approval ratings etc.) has been trying to make the case that it doesn’t matter. As you said in your OP this is a significant development. The doomers need to wake up to the reality Trump is not invulnerable.

[Laelth]

126. No. He's not invulnerable.

He is still dangerous, however. I don’t want to underestimate the damage he may still do.

-Laelth

[BainsBane]

114. That assumes they will believe the story

They dismiss what they don't want to hear. I had a conversation with a military guy on Twitter last week, and it didn't matter what I said, he insisted Trump was pro-military. I highly doubt this will change much, certainly not for the white supremacists and probably not for the rest of his base either. Reason and facts don't enter into it.

[jeffreyi]

116. I hope there's a whole lot of this stuff

That is credible, sourced, that will be metered out strategically in the next couple of months.

[highmindedhavi]

124. The rethugs are already calling them "Scheduled Scandals"

sounds they are already expecting to ignore them as well

[Awsi Dooger]

117. Solidifying the lead among swing independents

That's what this should do for Biden.

But other sites are already overflowing with stories of Biden supporters who have presented this info to Trumpers who not only disregard the story but are condemning of anyone who could possibly believe it.

If anything the cultists will rally around Trump even more, believing the "liberal media" is falsifying against him.

That's the way this stuff works. Any other version is not the world we're in.

[Laelth]

125. Interesting.

There’s anecdotal evidence that this story is having some effect among Trump’s die-hard supporters. Here, for example:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=14022381

How much effect remains to be seen.

-Laelth

[bullwinkle428]

120. Supposedly, so was "Grab 'em by the pussy" and Russian bounty-gate.

Not trying to be "Eeyore" here...just saying that we can't allow this to let ourselves become complacent.

[cwydro]

121. I disagree that the Boogaloos or any other of these guys playing dress up are veterans.

I’d bet the majority never served a day in their lives.

Wannabes.

[denem]

132. More like a beam of four x two delivered with considerable force.

shitshow comming right up 5pm

[ut oh]

133. I don't think this is enough

to deter his supporters.

They have made it clear for the last 4 years that anything is ok.

He's been denigrating John McCain every chance he gets, yet still has strong support from his followers

He dismissed Russian bounties on American soldiers, yet still have strong support from his followers.

[Laelth]

148. Don't you think that this is different, though?

They’re perfectly OK with Trump being an a**hole to various “others”—people of color, immigrants, liberal “elites,” and muslims—but it really isn’t OK (to them) to disrespect their honored dead (their ancestors and relatives—the people who DIED to give them this false sense that they are “true” Americans, and that “others” are not.)

I don’t know. We will see what happens, but I am expecting to see Trump slip a little in the polls next week.



-Laelth

[Dukkha]

134. Don't underestimate denialism in people who have been bamboozled.

“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”
― Carl Sagan

[NNadir]

136. Let's be clear. To his base, his racism and hatred are all that matter. They hate America.

They have some fantasy about an America that they might love; but they hate America as it is, and has it has been for a very long time.

They have no use for its soldiers, its laws, its constitution, its history.

Their imaginary America - the one that they might love - is an orgy of ignorance, bigotry, and violence, which, of course, what Trump is all about.

There is a reason they are in QAnon. They are despicable, stupid, evil and frankly, severely intellectually and morally and neurophysiologically impaired.

[Meowmee]

145. Yep

And crazy as well

[Laelth]

147. Some of them, yes.

Most of them, perhaps, but not all of them. I suspect that Trump’s blatant disrespect for our military will cost him votes—perhaps as much as 5% of the electorate. That shift, alone, would turn a close, Biden win into an electoral landslide. That’s what I am hoping for, in any event.

Thank you for the reply.

-Laelth

[paulkienitz]

137. he won't lose any of the real fascists, and we now know there are an awful lot of them

however, every dick move loses a few more non-fascist conservatives, and he never gets any of them back.

[Dopers_Greed]

138. It's sad, but I don't think he'll lose a significant amount of support over this

Just based on people I know:

A lot of the younger far-right think he's a idiot, but still support him because they are fascists.

As far as older Republicans, some still love him and think the media is out to get him. Others don't personally care for him, but are die hard Republicans and towing the party line.

The Republicans that did turn on him, did so in 2016.

[Lock him up.]

150. I think those who are actually serving in the military will feel humiliated.

Along with those who were in active duty and lost friends also will be infuriated.

If they don't care being considered canon-fodder losers by the current CIC...

I don't know what they're doing there. Collecting a paycheck?

[kentuck]

140. Preach it!

[LiberalLovinLug]

141. I don't know about that. That camel's back can take a lot of straw

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[onlyadream]

142. But.. is it? (did this straw really break the camel's back?)

I don't see any outrage except for those that already hate Trump.

[CaptainTruth]

143. I hope you're right, but I've seen Trumpers dismiss everything as "fake news" if Trump says it is.

[quakerboy]

144. They dont care. This is not the straw.

Anyone who actually had honor or cared more about their nation than their various "ism's" had already abandoned ship, or more likely never got on board to begin with.

This wont change his support more than a percent or two.

The straw will be when he loses. Once he can no longer inflict the pain they want on those they hate.. thats when, there will be a sudden sea change and it will suddenly be hard to find anyone who will admit they voted for him.

[Poiuyt]

146. No- They don't believe he said it

I have a facebook friend who said that the Atlantic story was false, and he pointed to a Breitbart article as proof. They simply will not believe anything negative about trump.

[markpkessinger]

156. Sadly, you are correct . . .

. . . A relative of mine -- a Trumper -- over the weekend, said: "He never said that, and never would! Another outright lie to encourage hatred!"

They are simply doubling down on their own denial.

[Demovictory9]

151. dont be surprised if his approval rises among gop

he is their gawd

[Sugarcoated]

152. Of course it's not going to work with the cult

Maggots are cultists but I've discovered, many are simply staunch Republicans and a certain percentage of them are wavering. They're soft Trump voters. They come from all over, mostly city and suburbs but some live in rural areas. They can't stand him as a person but like some of the things he's signed into law. This contemptible disrespect of our military men and women could make them stay home.

Now, moderate Republicans, conservative-leaning but moderate Independents, the folks in the suburbs, particularly women who he's trying to win back with his "law and order" message, this new revelation could seal the deal for them to vote for Biden.

[Laelth]

153. That is my hope and expectation. n/t

-Laelth

[markpkessinger]

154. I think the effect will not be as much as you might think

I have numerous Trumpers within my family, and judging from their reactions to the alleged comments about fallen veterans, it appears they are simply ratcheting up their own denialism. One relative, to my astonishment, actually said: "He never said that, and never would! Another outright lie to encourage hatred!" This despite the fact that the story has been confirmed by several other news outlets, and despite the fact that it is thoroughly consistent with many of Trump's past remarks.

These folks -- most of them, anyway -- are thoroughly ensconced within their bubble, and are not likely to come out of it, in part because they have made such a deep emotional investment in Trump that it has become impossible for them to admit to themselves that they were wrong.

[aikoaiko]

155. That's not how suicide pacts work.

There was a time when I would have agreed with you, but no longer.