Military officials are discussing 'disobeying unlawful' orders over fears of what Trump might do: ex

[SheltieLover]

https://www.rawstory.com/2020/09/military-officials-are-discussing-disobeying-unlawful-orders-over-fears-of-what-trump-might-do-ex-marine-lawmaker/

Published 1 min ago on September 6, 2020By Tom Boggioni

Speaking remotely with MSNBC’s Alex Witt, Rep. Seth Mouton (D) — who served in Iraq as a Marine — criticized Donald Trump for his comments calling U.S. servicepeople “losers and suckers” and said dissatisfaction with the president is pervasive within the armed forces.

Asked by the host how past and present U.S. military members view the president, the moderate Massachusetts lawmaker was blunt.

“What have you heard from troops? ” host Witt asked. “Those that are your constituent, veterans that have come home or those who you’re in contact?”

“Well, I’m not going to speak for every veteran, but I can’t tell you how many have reached out to me and said that they have discussions now in the military about what it means to disobey unlawful orders, because they fully expect them from the commander in chief,” Mouton replied. “There are a lot of people, even inside the White House, who believe that he’s going to try to get the military to keep him in power after he loses this election to Joe Biden."

More at link.

[soothsayer]

1. Thank goodness they're on to him

[SheltieLover]

3. Ikr???

I am really glad to see this!

[Laelth]

2. As they should be. k&r n/t

-Laelth

[SheltieLover]

4. Yuppers!

[Mariana]

5. This really shouldn't require much discussion.

Of course they must disobey unlawful orders. Discussion should consist of reviewing with all personnel how to distinguish a lawful order from an unlawful order, and stressing that they are required to disobey the latter.

[SheltieLover]

7. I'm sure that is what they are doing.

I feel so sad for our superb military being in the position of a KNOWN TRAITOR, a russian asset, as CiC.

This must be a first for our military!

[Aristus]

11. I was going to say the same thing.

A service member is legally, ethically, and morally obligated to disobey unlawful orders.

We're not the Wehrmacht. Obeying all orders unquestioningly, no matter how immoral, is not something the U.S. military teaches.

Soldiers in American service who commit atrocities do so because they want to, not because they're ordered to.

[Lock him up.]

25. To be "somewhat" fair, Hitler called his military "losers and suckers" only days before...

... he "upped" himself, hiding deep down in his bunker.

The $tupid betRayer-in-chief called them losers and suckers all his criminal life, but the gReedy media refused to admit it was true.

[sarisataka]

23. The issue isn't whether a person has to refuse an unlawful order

but to decide if an order is unlawful.

Most people picture the military being ordered to fire on unarmed civilians- that's easy, it clearly is unlawful. It is the grey area where an order seems reasonable and good but still is unlawful.

That for example a unit being ordered to support law enforcement in an area of unrest. In many cases nothing is illegal about such support as long as a Federal military unit is not being used to enforce the law. However where is the line between support and enforcement? Very clear and specific orders are needed to define a mission to prevent inadvertently crossing the line and following an unlawful order.

I have been in a unit that did refuse orders as being unlawful. It is not an easy thing to do and you must make sure you are 100% correct to avoid punishment.

[gratuitous]

6. This is the time to figure out what you're going to do

Because if you haven't made a plan when an illegal order is issued, it's way too late to start thinking about ethics and oaths and loyalties and your comrades in arms.

[SheltieLover]

9. Absolutely!

Putin has been jealous of our military for a long time. Now he is seething, no doubt.

Morale must be so low in military with a known traitor as CiC.

[KS Toronado]

8. That's good that our military leaders see what's coming round the bend & are planning ahead.

[SheltieLover]

10. I agree!

I'll sleep better tonight knowing they are not likely to nuke one of our metro areas for chumputin!

[onetexan]

12. Just several days ago the chairman of joint chiefs of staff has made stmt re: military will have no

Role in the election. I take it to mean theyve already discussed this amongst themselves & decided they will preempt the situation by declaring such ahead of time. Im confident our military leaders will do the right thing & lead their troops to follow suit.

[SheltieLover]

13. I took same meaning from JCOS statement

Morale must be so low in military with known russian asset as CiC.

I trust real patriots to do what is right. I am sure there are plenty of super patriotic lifers who would like to tell their boss off!

[onetexan]

16. LOL i was just telling the hubby this morning the men in uniform who

Have to salute him when he enters/ exits AF1, that if i were them instead of saluting the Con i'd flip him the bird

[SheltieLover]

17. Yup

Dunno how they can stomach him.

[usaf-vet]

34. This is certainly a very grey area but the UCMJ does speak to disobeying orders.

Here is some interesting followup discussion from a Google search.

https://www.quora.com/Under-what-circumstances-can-the-military-legally-disobey-an-order-from-the-President

This was one answer the stood out for me

"There is historical precedent. In the last days of the Nixon administration, Secretary of Defense James Schlesinger issued an order stating that no order from the President was valid unless countersigned by himself. This was before Nixon resigned. It is not clear if this order has ever been rescinded. In addition, for nuclear operations, the “two-man rule” applies to everyone, including the President. Finally, as others have mentioned, an illegal order can never be valid, and the person giving the order has the duty to prove that it is legal.

I personally believe the current president has proven himself UNFIT to be CIC. In this veteran's mind, Trump calling those that now wear the uniform or have worn the uniform LOSERS and SUCKERS is enough in my mind.

[SheltieLover]

35. Ty for clarification!

Putin has long been very jealous of our amazing military, therefore, chumputin feels a need to denegrate our service members.

His fat, traiterous needs to be locked up!

[erronis]

18. It's interesting. The Pentagon has a mix of career military and lots of contractors and political

appointees.

The contractors represent the $$$s - the Military Industrial Complex (MIC) and have lots of vested interests and power in how things go.

I'm sure the trump administration has been seeding most of the departments and services with the equivalents of the USSR's "commisars" - people that keep an eye on loyalty.

I'd be very wary of being part of a group that was meeting to discuss plans on how to deal with this rogue.

As with the intelligence community.

The WH has been given instructions from the Kremlin on how to handle dissidents.

[Lonestarblue]

19. I trust the military, but I do not trust Trump or DHS.

If Trump unleashes his army of secret police cobbled together from every part of DHS, he could have thousands of “troops” to disrupt the counting of mail ballots and to join with the right-wing militias to essentially start a civil war when he loses. Will each state’s National Guard be enough to overcome such a force, and would Republican-run states simply order their National Guard to join Trump?

These are my nightmare scenarios, and we might need the help of the US military just to maintain order.

[ARPad95]

14. The problem is with community police forces. Will they follow unlawful orders?

They already do in solidarity with the Orange Turd and his rabid base.

[SheltieLover]

15. True

They should not, but some likely have & will.

But at lease military won't!

[LiberalArkie]

20. The police will follow Trump and probably a lot of the national guard also.

Remember Eisenhower had to use the 101st Airborne and later on Governor Orval Faubus ordered the Arkansas National Guard to Little Rock Central High School on September 4, 1957, because he said he had evidence (although none was shown) that there was "imminent danger of tumult, riot and breach of peace and the doing of violence to persons and property.

[sarge43]

21. That's the worry. n/t

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

22. I hope the big button in the "football" is not actually wired to anything.

The Orange Moron would launch nukes if he thought it might help him retain the presidency.

[SheltieLover]

24. Absolutely!

I hope our military will keep him from nuking us!

[C Moon]

26. If that was his plan, he is fucked now.

[SheltieLover]

27. Yup. They are onto him.

And he is, no doubt, diving for the phone to get putin's next order.

[ailsagirl]

28. Glad to hear it

I'm still flabbergasted that it's come to this-- what a nightmare!!!!!

Can we get President Obama back???

[SheltieLover]

29. Yes, it is.

Imagine living during 😍bama admin & watching a dystopian movie where military is making such statements. 🤯🤯🤯

[bucolic_frolic]

30. definitely. not any doubt.

white suits and sedation will be necessary.

[SheltieLover]

31. So long as it isn't a tsn suit.

[BlueWavePsych]

32. Drumpf has no respect for our troops.

[SheltieLover]

33. Not one bit!

Repulsive traitor!