What should Trader Joe's do??

[LAS14]

Black Lives Matter activists occupied a Trader Joe's in Seattle this week, claiming to be protesting "lack of access to grocery stores" and explaining to patrons "how capitalism exploits the working class."

Morning March Seattle, which advocates to abolish the police and invest in black communities, organised the gathering at the local grocery store to educate customers on the barriers black residents face such as gentrification.

This comes as leftists conflate Trader Joe's and gentrification, according to The Atlantic in a 2019 article on the "conflicts between white Portlanders and long-time black residents" over "widening bicycle lanes" and "the construction of a new Trader Joe’s."

For the first time, H-E-B dethroned Trader Joe as the top five grocery retailers in dunnhumby’s second annual Retailer Preference Index (RPI) this year, which the latter had consecutively clinched the No. 1 spot on the index in 2019.

https://thepostmillennial.com/seattle-blm-takes-over-trader-joes-protesting-lack-of-access-to-grocery-stores

I was once involved with a community organizing project which managed to bring a grocery store to an inner city neighborhood, previously a food desert. But after a year or so the grocery store had to close because of the shop lifting. There's no doubt that capitalism has caused horrible discrepancies in what people have access to and experience. But Trader Joe's wouldn't be able to keep its low prices if it was in a neighborhood where angry (justifiably) poor (not justifiably) people shop lifted in the extreme. I believe that TJ's would do what it could. But what can it do????

TIA
LAS

[Freethinker65]

1. So they want a TJs or they don't want a TJs??

I think Aldi has had success going into "food deserts" and also suburbs with grocery store options.

[Klaralven]

12. Trader Joe's is owned by Aldi

[lame54]

19. There are 2 Aldi's...

The bros. split it
The Aldi in the states is not the one that owns Trader Joe's

[stillcool]

2. As a former klepto...

I think any store is subject to shoplifting. A well managed, well staffed, and friendly business goes a long way in preventing shoplifting. Empty aisles, frowning staff, accusatory looking management, lends itself to get ripped off. They make it too easy.

[cwydro]

28. I surely hope you're joking.

Blaming a store for someone’s dishonesty?

[stillcool]

36. no...not joking

are you? If I leave my bicycle outside in my yard unlocked, whose fault is it if it gets stolen? If I leave a cash register open in my store, whose fault is it if someone helps themselves to the cash? Jeeze...when did people stop being people?

[cwydro]

37. Ok, I'm going to assume you are indeed joking.

You give thieves a pass. Wow. I know you must be joking.

If someone steals a bike or anything else, it is the fault of the THIEF.

Ugh, nothing worse than a thief.

[Happy Hoosier]

39. Do you blame rape on women in sexy clothes too?

Crime is the fault of the criminal.

[stillcool]

46. people are people..

what is evident in one is inherent in all. Hence....Laws. You compare rape to shop-lifting? I've been a victim of both...let me tell you....there is no comparison. I'm effing shaking here....WTF is wrong with people?

[Happy Hoosier]

51. WTF is wrong is that you are victim blaming.

The decision to do wrong ALWAYS exists with the perpetrator.

There are, of course, mitigations. There are mental health issues, systemic poverty, a cultural disregard for rules that are or are seen as unjust.

Never-the-less, if I forget to lock my car door, that doesn't mean it's okay to steal my car. The same goes for retail stores.

Should stores institute loss mitigation? Sure. But I've seen protests against such stores implying they are making unfair assumptions.

I don't think we should automatically assume people will steal if they can. I have never shoplifted in my life, for example.

And I don't make the rape comparison idly. I am, in fact, a survivor of childhood sexual assault and rape. More than once when I was younger, I tried to bring it up to people I trusted only to be told multiple times that I must have done something to encourage it, or that I "should have known." I was naive 7 and 8-year-old, but I "should have known,." With all due respect, Fuck that!

[stillcool]

53. You are actually a survivor...

and yet you toss around the word rape like that? We have obviously lived very different lives, and I have never seen the view from up high where you are. Yes...I was responsible, when I did not take care of my stuff and it got stolen. Perhaps it's living with families not your own. I don't think I could hate any more right now. I will not be responding any more. Good-bye.

[Happy Hoosier]

60. Wow, you actually hate me?

I hope you find the peace you need. Good luck to you.

[Blue_true]

40. Your imagery is insulting.

If a person has values, they don’t shop lift, or take money out of an open cash register drawer, or do anything else related to stealing. If fact, some people can have a lot of money and still commit larceny, no need to look any farther than the current president. Values are not about being religious, too many people make that wrong connection, they are about clearly understanding the difference between right and wrong and making an earnest effort to do right.

I really think the question that a poster asked you is spot on, I will modify it some:

If a woman wears a short skirt or tight top, does that mean that rape is a risk for her? Any person would answer “HELL NO!!!” to that question, as they should less emphatically to the question of “if a cash register drawer is left open, does that make theft probable?”

[stillcool]

45. You are comparing rape to shop-lifting?

My effing god. I can't even.

[cwydro]

48. Nice try.

[stillcool]

50. What?

[treestar]

58. They're both crimes

You understand the concept of comparison. It does not mean things are exactly the same. Compare and contrast. Crimes are a category. They are alike in that. They will be different in terms of severity and there are subcategories, crimes against the person, against property, against society.

But the concept of taking steps to protect yourself from crime or failing to do so is the same for any crime.

[cwydro]

47. Thank you.

I remember as a young child riding through the bank drive-thru with my mom.

After we moved into the parking lot, she counted the money as she always did. She saw that she'd been given an extra $100. Larcenous little beings that we were, my sister and I clamored for things she could buy us..

I will never forget the look she gave us. She simply said, no, that would be wrong. Then she told us she was surprised and ashamed that we would even think such a thing. Left us there to stew while she went into the bank to rerun it lol.

Many, many years later in college, I cashed a check at my bank and the exact same thing happened to me. Not as diligent as my mom, I didn't realize it till I got home and counted it.

I went back to return it, and the look on the teller's face is another I'll never forget. She was new, and she told me how grateful she was I brought the money back. I thought she would cry.

It's very sad there are people out there without these values, even sadder that they post here. My family was not in the least religious, but we were taught these values very early.

[Blue_true]

56. The big problem that we have as a society is that too many people

conflate being religious with having values. The two are not the same and being one of them doesn’t anoint the second characteristic to a person.

[stillcool]

49. I don't think I've ever been

so offended....no insulted...by a post. That has to be the most disgusting, triggering thing I've ever read. 4 year olds shoplift, and 4 year olds get raped. I have experienced both. One is nothing like the other. I hope you're pleased with what you've accomplished. Well done.

[Blue_true]

57. You are completely distorting what I wrote.

I pointed out that the presence of a set of circumstances doesn’t give a person a green light to discard what should be well established values.

It was you who used situational events to imply that doing the wrong thing could understandably be an outcome of a given situational event existing. My example was done to illustrate how ridiculous and ethically unmoored the event and outcome analogies that your were using were. What I saw was a grown person saying that shoplifting was an understandable act, there was nothing stated about a 4 year old until you just threw that out.

[cwydro]

59. You're the one justifying crime based on a situation.

The poster in no way compared the two crimes. They simply pointed out how ridiculous such a justification is. Nice try though.

[stillcool]

55. why? Because I've had stuff stolen?

Because I stole stuff? Because I've been raped, at the same time I stole stuff? Because I've worked in nightclubs where bartenders ripped the place off? Because I've managed restaurants an had people steal from the register? Because I learned at a young age, no one was going to do anything when I got conned or ripped off, and the only thing that could possibly prevent the stuff from happening was what was within my power? Oh then yeah...I'm an asshole. Feel good?

[USALiberal]

62. Lol, ok!

[Pobeka]

3. The writer lost my trust when I read this:

Liberal white women throughout the city are now stockpiling frozen burritos and wondering: "has this all gone too far"?

That's a complete BS line to throw in, and I suspect the writer's motive is really to create more division, not offer an objective story.

[chowder66]

6. You were right to lose trust. She writes for the Federalist.

[greenjar_01]

16. Right wing trash

Par for the course.

[Xolodno]

4. Shoplifting is a convenient excuse, but its more.

Simply put, the chain store doesn't sell enough to cover the rent, losses, make a profit, etc. So, they close.

There are solutions. Every upper scale neighborhood has a "farmers market" at least once a month. Selling higher end products that normally wouldn't be allowed due to city and state regulations, but are waived for this instance. When I was in Paris, France, twice a week these markets would pop up.

Something similar can be introduced in under-served areas. The city could use its power of eminent domain and take over long term vacant land, abandoned malls, buildings, open farming workshops/seminars, etc. and then turn them over to the community to grow food, introduce some live stock, etc. And the production can then be sold in a farmers market that supports the community farms. A sustainable solution that may even move the unemployed to employed.

But you won't see it. Major grocery chains fight tooth an nail from this happening, even when they know they will probably never serve the area. Why? Because if this is allowed in poor areas...it will only be a matter of time it happens to middle class and wealthier areas. And as they see it, a loss in sales. So they push hard on city regulations banning live stock, selling your small crop, etc. under the guise of health regulations. And they aren't the only ones, even small independent stores often belong to a business trade group and they fight it as well. And it gets better, cheap food chain restaurants also fight against this. The best part, farm groups also do there best to stop it, rural farmers making sure there are no urban farms.

I'm going to stop here. Just getting pissed off at the inefficient waste.

[MichMan]

23. Not sure what you are saying.

They exist in wealthier areas, but are stopped in poorer areas because they might also open in wealthier areas ?? Aren't they already there?

FYI, Detroit has had a huge farmers market for decades in the city called Eastern Market.

"Every upper scale neighborhood has a "farmers market" at least once a month. Selling higher end products that normally wouldn't be allowed due to city and state regulations, but are waived for this instance.

But you won't see it. Major grocery chains fight tooth an nail from this happening, even when they know they will probably never serve the area. Why? Because if this is allowed in poor areas...it will only be a matter of time it happens to middle class and wealthier areas. And as they see it, a loss in sales. So they push hard on city regulations banning live stock, selling your small crop, etc. under the guise of health regulations. "

[Xolodno]

38. Yeah its a bit complicated.

Yes wealthier areas do get a "farmers market" selling jalapeno jam, sun dried tomato cream cheese, etc. Stuff most grocery stores won't sell as its a niche item.

But fruits, vegetables, eggs, cuts of meat, etc. are not or in limited quantity and often at a higher price.

And the frequency of farmers markets is often limited. Sure some are permanent, but they usually aren't close to poorer areas.


In poor areas, they should have them, like in Paris, France, twice a week and in the local neighborhood. And "codes" banning the sale of locally produced goods for the public should be relaxed. And further, should subsidize the cost by providing the use of land.

Instead, we get people using their state benefits card to pay for unhealthy processed food at a serious mark up. All because trying to buy a tomato, orange, etc. will require a massive trip.

[chowder66]

5. She writes for the Federalist.

https://thefederalist.com/author/miacathell/

A founder for "Young Americans for Freedom"
Young Americans for Freedom is an ideologically conservative youth activism organization that was founded in 1960 as a coalition between traditional conservatives and libertarians on American college campuses. It is a 501 non-profit organization and the chapter affiliate of Young America's Foundation.

[msongs]

7. open more stores and people who like them can shop there or not nt

[WhiskeyGrinder]

8. Andy Ngo is editor-at-large of that site. C'mon now.

[greenjar_01]

17. They know it's a right wing source

That's what makes it fun hahaha.

Unbelievable that this keeps going on.

[obamanut2012]

24. you better believe it

[greenjar_01]

27. ROFL

[GreenEyedLefty]

9. The author lost me at "leftists"

I didn't even need to click the link.

[tenderfoot]

10. I see right wing sources are allowed here.

[Hekate]

11. If the author writes for the very right wing The Federalist, I give no credence to her purported...

...reports of widespread angst over Trader Joe’s. The one I patronize is literally next door to a Walmart. Both do a brisk business.

[Klaralven]

13. Supermarkets can go to a pick-up and delivery only model.

That way there are no customers in the store.

Should cut down on shoplifting.

[Blue_true]

41. There would still be issues. I can promise you that deliveries won't happen

in some areas.

I know a lot of people here like to hate on the company, but Walmart sells to a very diverse cross-section of people, from wealthy people to very poor people. The company stores only go bust in regions where the overall economy sucks. I am sure that Walmart get shop-lifters coming through every store, but it is profitable and offers grocery of all types in addition to electronics and dry goods. If you ever notice Walmart, or a successful store like Publix, the store security is good, but not in people’s faces, shop-lifters get caught and prosecuted. Maybe we as progressives need to realize that stores that operate in food deserts don’t have the top of the line store security that bigger chains like Walmart and Publix have - maybe the answer is to help stores that open in food desert get top quality store security apparatus, and recognize that shop-lifters will be prosecuted - in fact that should be encouraged, that was honest poor people will have convenient shopping for high quality groceries, meats and produce.

[nolabear]

14. Really? Why wasn't it on the Seattle news?

I mean, I watch pretty diligently, especially since the pandemic and smoke, and I haven’t heard a thing about this.

I swear, sometimes I think the rest of the country just obsessed about us and we’re like 🤷🏼‍♀️

[greenjar_01]

15. The breathtaking gall of this

[nolabear]

18. Okay I looked in Seattle news and there's nothing.

The Ballard store isn’t mentioned. The Capitol Hill store was a couple of months ago over threatening to close when employees asked for time off to attend a BLM protest but they settled that.

Other than the Blaze and this I see absolutely nothing.

[radius777]

20. It was a small protest, they didn't 'take over' anything.

This story reads like FOX's 'Antifa/BLM invading our suburbs' narrative.

This is Trump's America - the chaos and division was created by him.

[JI7]

21. Exactly, a small group of people or random people posting on the internet

isn't worth an article .

One could find anything they want and I guess that's what lazy "journalists" do these days.

[obamanut2012]

26. It is a very RW source the OP posted

Garbage info in, wingnut "argument" out.

[janterry]

22. I think this problem is an important one

and requires innovation from government. I'm a liberal and believe in the free market. But there are times when government needs to step in.

This isn't a problem for Trader Joe's or any particular market. It's one that government must solve. I know in NY, there was a push to generate more fresh produce by allowing more vending licenses - at least in the summer.

I think local cities need to discuss this and, perhaps, work with business to create a sustainable (and profitable!) model.

I think any sit-in protest (large or, as this one appears to be - small) is not any kind of solution.

[Amishman]

29. Trader Joe's isn't a very good target for this either

Their business model targets and requires an upper middle class - they are more of a competitor if whole foods rather than budget grocers. It doesn't make sense for them to expand that direction any more than opening a Porsche dealership in rural Alabama.

A great business to encourage to branch into urban food deserts would be Aldi. Well run, low priced groceries, and their stores have a much smaller footprint than many supermarkets

[Blue_true]

43. Good point. Trader Joe's target health conscious, middle class to wealthy people.

It is a poor example of a good choice for food deserts. Aldi and Save A Lot are better examples.

[LAS14]

32. Yeah, that's sort of the conclusion I came to overnight. TJ's should use their economic...

... and whatever other influence they have to support government action that will improve the lives of people in the difficult neighborhoods.

[Blue_true]

44. Why should they?

I am sure that the company has a charitable arm, but that is not the same as daily merchandising. TJ doesn’t run on a low income community model, it’s merchandising model is oriented toward the other economic end, forcing it into low income areas will only insure failure.

[Blue_true]

42. Some times I believe that as progressives, we sometimes put the cart before the horse.

But at least we try to solve important societal problems, as opposed to the right, who demagogue them.

A case in point. I have a friend that is in business in a large blue city. The city strongly encouraged recycling soft drink bottles and cans. Refundable aluminum cans were easy, there are lots of private commercial aluminum can reclaim operations, hell, all a person needed to do was put a clear bag of aluminum soda cans outside a door on a public sidewalk and they would be gone fast. But glass bottles that things like Snapple come in was a different story, as was any can that was made of steel - there was no reclaim for that stuff and the city that encouraged it’s reclaim didn’t attempt to prime the pump and put money behind setting up a few co-ops that took non-refundable drink bottles and steel cans/lids.

Now on grocery stores in food deserts. Maybe cities that want such stores to flourish should examine in detail what that entails. Stores that operate in affluent areas don’t worry much about people not having money to buy groceries and produce. Those stores also worry somewhat less about shop-lifting, even though they have top of the line security apparatus to deal with that. So selling groceries successfully in food deserts boil down to three features, low prices for quality products, customers having money to spend, and high quality store security to deter shop-lifting and robberies. The first problem can be handled by stocking near expiration or over-production items that are not immediately perishable. For items like meat, fruit and vegetables, the type of model that stores like Aldi or Save A Lot use can be applied. The second problem can be solved via food purchase assistance for people that need it, insure that such people have enough money to buy an adequate amount of groceries. The last problem can be solved by government helping stores install top of the line store security, along with prosecution of people that are found to have stolen.

I have said over and over, not every rich person is a demon and not every poor person is a saint. Life is a lot more complicated than that.

[obamanut2012]

25. Why are you posting a known RW source and then positing a question

Based on its RW slant? Hmmmm?

[LAS14]

31. Because I didn't know it was a RW source and because I thought the gripe about...

... lack of grocery stores was legitimate.

[demmiblue]

30. Unrec for source. n/t

[Nonhlanhla]

33. Aldi has a better business model for poor neighborhoods

There was an Aldi near our previous home, in a traditionally black neighborhood. Great quality and amazing prices. Their no frills business model makes them more viable for poorer neighborhoods.

[LAS14]

34. I sent this to a friend with IMPECCABLE progressive credentials for his whole life....

... community organizer for most of it. Here's his report.

(Note - He asked me how DU had responded. At the time there were 19 replies that dismissed the issue because of the source. By "the issue" I mean food deserts, not "occupying" things. Six replies took the issue to be worthy of discussion. I invite DUers to discuss my friend's reply.)

Yes, this is also a very real problem in our Minneapolis urban areas. Here in my neighborhood we have been trying to be supportive to the four homeless encampments located within a few blocks of our house, totaling about 120 tents and maybe 250 adults and kids. But many of the businesses around us are reporting very dramatic increases in "snatch and grab” thefts for items that can be sold on the street, presumably mostly for drugs and alcohol, though in the case of grocery stores it’s hungry people stealing the food they need. These robberies, pilfering and shoplifting activities target hardware stores, grocery stores, local pharmacies, the local food co-op, two bike shops, etc, in our neighborhood. Theft in one hardware store that we shop at often and try to support because it is family owned and is an independent business reported to me this past week that since the homeless encampments were set up the theft in their store is up so dramatically that they are considering shutting down until the winter cold and ice and snow drive the homeless encampments out of existence as people seek warmth in local shelters. The hardware store owner can no longer make insurance claims out of a fear that all their insurance will be canceled for being in a high crime area.

At the same time we are now finding many needles around on our streets and sidewalks, especially in our alleys, since the homeless community includes many drug users. I now carry a heavy leather “fire” glove when I go over to my Community of St. Martin office. Our entry door is hidden at the side of Faith Mennonite church. Almost every time I go over there to my office I find needles outside our door, where people can shoot up without being seen from the street. We just installed one of those medical waste containers inside the building so we can place the needles there and not in our garbage.

Our local businesses have tried cameras, mirrors, extra “surveillance” staff, locking up expensive or easily pocketed items and signs posted all over the store. None of this has worked. Our neighborhood restorative justice initiative is trying to deal with this, but is overwhelmed by the number of referrals of teens and young adults committing these thefts, and disappointed that after a lengthy restorative justice process and apparent resolution, too many of the kids are immediately caught stealing again.

As our neighborhood fights over whether there should be police or not we had two more armed robberies and a car highjacking within 4 blocks of our house today, in broad daylight, plus multiple thefts and one more car jacking over at the Univ of MN, about a half mile from us, where returning students are now the target. To complicate all of this even more, after news of these latest robberies and car jackings got out via social media several guys on our neighborhood e-forum suggested the answer is for more of us to get “carry” permits and shoot the perpetrators. This is exactly why I worry about the movement to not have police at all. We will end up with vigilante justice and individual shooters out on our streets creating all kinds of carnage.

I’m glad you posted on Democratic Underground. I will be interested in what responses you get. I wish I could suggest something that might work or be a response.

The only creative idea I’ve seen for locations here in Minneapolis that are considered “food deserts” are mobile groceries, i.e., trucks or buses retro-fitted as small, mobile grocery stores. You probably have those in Boston. Local foundations support these initiatives here in the Twin Cities. Maybe Trader Joes, Whole Foods and the big box groceries could tax themselves to provide food and other items to these mobile groceries, or provide financial support for more vehicles.

These vehicles park in church parking lots, community center parking areas and even just on the street. They have a nice selection of fresh produce in smaller refrigerated units, they have some frozen items and a good selection of other canned, boxed and bagged foods. Several of the CSA’s that we use in our area donate extra food to these mobile groceries. But we only have one or two. They can’t begin to meet the need. One talking head suggested that the Twin Cities alone would need up to 30 mobile groceries to meet the needs of these “food desert” areas. Imagine the need in NYC, Boston, LA, Chicago, etc?

[cwydro]

35. Interesting and thoughtful response.

Nothing wrong with your thread.

[brooklynite]

54. Nothing, based on a generic anti-capitalism protest.

If they have a specific complaint about TJs policies, let them bring it up.