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zipplewrath

(16,646 posts)
Sat Sep 19, 2020, 12:49 PM Sep 2020

The flaw in the Constitution

The current situation and the Supreme Court composition in general demonstrates the fatal flaw in our constitution that is getting worse every year.

McConnell controls the Senate because 30% of the population controls 50% of the senate. By 2040, 30% will control 70% of the senate. This gives that 30% an outsized influence over the make up of the courts, which gives them an outsized influence over the law. This has allowed them to overturn the voting rights act. It empowers them to allow voter suppression by states. It allows them to prevent legislation to make voting easier, fairer, or more equitable from ever reaching the floor of the senate.

And there's nothing we can really do to change it because the constitution says we can't change it.

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The flaw in the Constitution (Original Post) zipplewrath Sep 2020 OP
We can't change it but we can dilute it. Demand statehood for PR and DC. Statistical Sep 2020 #1
This message was self-deleted by its author Bev54 Sep 2020 #4
So they'll control 68% zipplewrath Sep 2020 #6
It seemed like a good idea at the time. n/t malthaussen Sep 2020 #2
The Senate was created to protect slave states Trumpocalypse Sep 2020 #3
smaller "voting" populations. Yavin4 Sep 2020 #5
Yes smaller voting populations Trumpocalypse Sep 2020 #8
Not exactly. malthaussen Sep 2020 #7
It wasn't about individual states Trumpocalypse Sep 2020 #9
So why are we wanting to get rid of the fillibuster? Alhena Sep 2020 #10
I don't think your math is right. 50 senators from 25 largest states represent 83.8% of the people Klaralven Sep 2020 #11
Big and small states have republican senators zipplewrath Sep 2020 #12

Statistical

(19,264 posts)
1. We can't change it but we can dilute it. Demand statehood for PR and DC.
Sat Sep 19, 2020, 12:52 PM
Sep 2020

We should also expand the Supreme Court. At least to 11 but maybe we should consider 15 or 17.

Also remove the cloture rule. Given that the Senate is conservative leaning having a barrier of 60 votes all but ensures nothing right of center will ever get passed. Even if Moscow Mitch wasn't a traitor the cloture rule (filibuster) should be removed.

Lastly and this is more extreme and likely doesn't have support yet but the Constitution does allow splitting states. Split CA into three progressive states and you gain 4 more senators.

Response to Statistical (Reply #1)

zipplewrath

(16,646 posts)
6. So they'll control 68%
Sat Sep 19, 2020, 01:22 PM
Sep 2020

Adding 2 states won't accomplish much. The problem is MUCH larger than that. And it get worse every year. Adding more justices to the court will only allow McConnell to pack the court with more justices.

Yavin4

(35,427 posts)
5. smaller "voting" populations.
Sat Sep 19, 2020, 01:02 PM
Sep 2020

Given the number of slaves in these states, the total populations were equal.

malthaussen

(17,183 posts)
7. Not exactly.
Sat Sep 19, 2020, 01:27 PM
Sep 2020

The Senate was created for a lot of reasons. One of them was to reassure the smaller states that they would not be subject to the "tyranny of the majority" which concerned a number of folks in the period. Most of these smaller states were in New England: think New Hampshire, Rhode Island, and Connecticut. Most of the larger states -- including Virginia, at the time one of the largest states by population, and a slave state -- were opposed to the idea, and the political shenanigans involved in ramming through the Constitution were legion. The entire purpose of the Federalist Papers was to convince New York to vote for the Constitution. Which they only did after the 2/3 majority had decided (same for Virginia and North Carolina; Rhode Island didn't even bother to have a Constitutional convention). The Papers managed to delay the vote long enough so NY wouldn't come in with a "nay."

As the 19th century continued, the slave states realized that the Senate was the main thing protecting their "rights," which were in constant danger of invasion by "Northern Aggression." Those selfsame Northern aggressors became resentful of the southern states dominating the Senate, to say nothing of the Presidency. With the Louisiana Purchase and similar expansion, the problem became acute, but as early as 1787, the Northwest Ordinance forbade slavery in the areas ceded by Virginia ("Northwest" in this case meaning what are now Ohio, Illinois, and Indiana). That set the stage for the Missouri Compromise, the Compromise of 1850, and the Civil War. The slave states were determined to maintain their "rights" and get their "fair share" of the new lands we stole fair and square from Indians and Mexicans.

Now the smaller states are recognizing that the Senate is the only thing protecting their rights, which they perceive as under attack by evil East and West Coasters. They have a much poorer case (for "oppression&quot than the slave states did in the 19th century, but the mechanism of compromise erected to create an effective National government operates in their favor. One may call the idea flawed, but then one needs to explain how the US could have been more efficiently established on different lines. After all, the Constitution was only written to fix the broken system of government under the Articles of Confederation, which was even more flawed than the system we have now.

-- Mal

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
9. It wasn't about individual states
Sat Sep 19, 2020, 01:55 PM
Sep 2020

it was about the total populations of slave states vs non-slave states. And the slave states were afraid of the tyranny of the majority because they didn’t want the non-slave states dictating their laws.

Alhena

(3,030 posts)
10. So why are we wanting to get rid of the fillibuster?
Sat Sep 19, 2020, 01:59 PM
Sep 2020

OP is absolutely correct that the Senate favors Republicans, which makes me think we will very quickly regret getting rid of the fillibuster. There seems to be a spirit of instant gratification and lack of foresight these days.

 

Klaralven

(7,510 posts)
11. I don't think your math is right. 50 senators from 25 largest states represent 83.8% of the people
Sat Sep 19, 2020, 01:59 PM
Sep 2020

The 50 senators from the smallest state represent 16.2% of the people.

The 20 senators from the 10 largest states represent over 54% of the people.

You must be thinking of the Electoral College.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_and_territories_of_the_United_States_by_population

But not all small states are red. VT, DE, RI, HI are blue and MT, ME and NH are purple, while AK, ND, SD are red among the 10 smallest.

zipplewrath

(16,646 posts)
12. Big and small states have republican senators
Sat Sep 19, 2020, 02:09 PM
Sep 2020

There is no direct relationship between size, and the party of the senator. But the last time I saw it calculated, if you took all the votes for republican senators, and those for democratic senators, the GOP represented 30% of the population. Expect that to worsen when 70% of the population lives in just 15 states.

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