General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsTo those who argued it was wrong to suggest RBG should have retired under Obama...
How do you feel today? She remained an incredible jurist for her entire tenure. The argument for her to retire had nothing to do with sexism or ageism and everything to do with political pragmatism.
The people who refused to vote for HRC must shoulder some of the blame. But so must those who dismissed political pragmatism.
We are likely going to spend the next two decades watching RBGs accomplishments be undermined and overturned.
we can do it
(12,169 posts)tritsofme
(17,370 posts)McConnell could not have defeated Obamas nominee before then.
Statistical
(19,264 posts)the very best time for a justice to retire would be when the party they support controls both the Presidency and the Senate.
Hekate
(90,551 posts)hlthe2b
(102,119 posts)long and very important contributions to justice. Take this shit elsewhere or try just for a few moments to show some humanity.
BComplex
(8,017 posts)Tanuki
(14,914 posts)ChazII
(6,202 posts)weekend to mourn her loss?
TwilightZone
(25,427 posts)The decision to retire should be a personal one, not a political one.
"The people who refused to vote for HRC must shoulder some of the blame. "
No, they should shoulder nearly all of the blame. I reserve some for people like Jill Stein and Susan Sarandon.
aikoaiko
(34,162 posts)I get that SCOTUS judges typically stay politically neutral especially with regard to retiring.
Still it always surprised me that more judges werent more politically pragmatic about retirement decisions.
I do wish she retired under Obama and a Democratic Senste but I dont blame or fault her for her decision .
She earned her spot and I respect her decision.
yardwork
(61,538 posts)Ginsburg probably hoped that Americans weren't stupid enough to elect a Republican Congress in 2010 and then elect Trump in 2016.
We owe her a huge debt of gratitude for not retiring before she died. Poor woman. She literally worked herself to death on our behalf. And how ungrateful some people are.
I'm grateful. I'm married to my wife because Ruth Bader Ginsburg chose to keep working and hold a progressive vote on the Court as long as possible.
I mourn her passing and I honor her work.
LakeArenal
(28,802 posts)Enough Republicans will not call for the vote.
I believe that we are going to turn the bullshit back on them. Just by being better than Republicans are now.
DBCooper88
(8 posts)Mrs. Overall
(6,839 posts)marybourg
(12,584 posts)under Obama, for her own sake as well as the countrys. Shes put herself through hell these past few years, fighting the inevitable out of at least in part, a sense of duty. But I havent, and wouldnt, raise that issue today.
Statistical
(19,264 posts)RIP Ginsberg
groundloop
(11,513 posts)We need to be looking forward, especially right now. The first things we need to do is retake the White House and Senate, looking backwards and blaming people for where we're at won't help that.
On the other hand, I may or may not have left a few messages on Moscow Mitch's phones telling him (or whatever staffer listens to his messages) what I think of him.
PTWB
(4,131 posts)Im sure you know how that saying ends.
groundloop
(11,513 posts)In all my years of supervising people I've always stayed away from finding someone to blame whenever something went wrong and concentrated on figuring out what to do in the future to prevent the same thing from happening again. I think in general we're on the same page, but figuring out who to blame never moves us forward.
Olafjoy
(937 posts)FORWARD!!! What have you done today to secure success on Nov 3rd? Contributed? Worked on GOTV?
Lots of things going on right now. Call your Dem HQ or any candidates campaign. Tons of COVID safe activities. Do it in honor of RBG. Keep the Faith. Do not despair. If we despair, they win. They are going to be as shi%#y as possible to try and depress us. NO!! Eff them. Get to work. Thank you.
BeyondGeography
(39,345 posts)Thanks for your post. Calling for someone north of 80 who was five years past her first pancreatic cancer diagnosis to retire and pass the torch wasnt and never will be wrong.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)DavidDvorkin
(19,465 posts)I wanted her to retire when Obama was elected and the Democrats controlled the Senate. When she didn't, I started worrying, and I was right to worry.
yardwork
(61,538 posts)PTWB
(4,131 posts)Or belittle those suggesting RBG retire under Obama when we had the senate?
yardwork
(61,538 posts)You wrote, and I italicize the part I want to highlight:
"The people who refused to vote for HRC must shoulder some of the blame. But so must those who dismissed political pragmatism. "
It wasn't up to me or anybody else when Ginsburg chose to retire. My opinion had no influence on her decision. Therefore, my opinion about her retirement is not to blame for anything.
PTWB
(4,131 posts)If enough of RBGs supporters had encouraged her retirement in 2012-2014 perhaps she would have.
yardwork
(61,538 posts)In 2012-2014 the Republicans controlled the Senate. Who do you think they would have approved as her replacement?
PTWB
(4,131 posts)Hekate
(90,551 posts)gulliver
(13,168 posts)Squinch
(50,911 posts)Azathoth
(4,607 posts)There was no reason for her not to retire. She had achieved absolutely everything a legal scholar could achieve in a lifetime, including hero-status and a legacy firmly cemented in the history books. There was no reason to cling to the office, and that point was raised several times back then. She wouldn't even entertain the idea of retiring.
This kind of late-life egotism is a problem. Lautenberg pulled the same stunt, bulldozing his way back into office when he was 84, then dying and giving Good Year Blimp Chris Christie the opportunity to appoint his successor.
BeyondGeography
(39,345 posts)That would have placed Biden in the position of begging her to retire before the 2022 midterms. You will be pilloried for using the term egotism, but not by me.
yardwork
(61,538 posts)I didn't want Ginsburg to retire then either.
The last time we had a Democrat in the White House with a Democratic Senate was 2010. Since then it hasn't been safe for any progressive to retire from the Supreme Court.
BeyondGeography
(39,345 posts)And its a sad comment by you on Obamas political skills to say she had to hang in there for the team during the last six years of his presidency.
yardwork
(61,538 posts)zackymilly
(2,375 posts)Hekate
(90,551 posts)This line of thinking is remarkably similar to saying Black women will save the Dem party ...
...and then being disappointed that a minority group who have been loyal and hardworking cant in fact work miracles against overwhelming odds.
Justice Ruth Bader Ginsberg never could walk on water, though she could swim like an Olympic medalist. (Thats a metaphor. So sue me.) She couldnt change water into wine, either, but she could make gay weddings legal and dance at them.
Just stop it, all of you. Do the work. DO THE WORK AND STOP BLAMING SOMEONE WHO SPENT HER WHOLE LIFE WORKING.
yardwork
(61,538 posts)Among the many things wrong with the OP, it sounds sexist to dictate to a highly accomplished woman when she should retire.
The last time there was a good opportunity to place a progressive justice on the Supreme Court was before the disastrous midterm elections of 2010. At that time Ginsburg was considerably younger than Biden is now, but we don't hear calls for Biden to retire.
Demsrule86
(68,456 posts)have retired. I imagine she wished she had at some point It is not an attack on her to say that...I certainly respect her right to do as she chose, but now we face a 6-3 court and this could impact the presidential and Senate races as well.
We need to start thinking practically and consider how we can win and be in a position to make policy. There is nothing wrong with this way of thinking and it does not diminish Justice Ginsberg. You know what would diminish her? if we lose everything we fought for these 50 years...we have some judges who believe Brown was decided wrongly and of course we are likely to lose Roe and as the mother of a beautiful Gay daughter, I am terrified when I consider what could happen.
We could lose Lawrence VS Texas which was decided in 2003. We could see the return of criminal sodomy laws, state law banning interracial marriage and we could lose policy dating back to Roosevelt (Medicare, Social Security ETC ) as well as the ACA and any sort of health care.
yardwork
(61,538 posts)BeyondGeography
(39,345 posts)We had a Senate majority until 2015. Youll say it wasnt filibuster-proof. To which I say are you maintaining that Barack Obama and Harry Reid would not have found a way to get Republicans to play ball for an ideological replacement for Ginsburg in 2013, fresh off a 332-206 EV victory? Do you really have that low of an opinion of their respective political skills?
Demsrule86
(68,456 posts)House for the courts.
stopdiggin
(11,242 posts)to make their own decisions (by and large) about life choices. And that Democrats, or liberals, were (largely) in support of those personal decisions.
And -- my personal decision is that this OP is fairly tone deaf -- and shows poor personal taste.
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Response to PTWB (Original post)
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PTWB
(4,131 posts)One voice is difficult to hear but can grow into many. Im amazed there are still folks who try to defend the decision not to retire.
yardwork
(61,538 posts)Paladin
(28,243 posts)Trying to rub salt in the wounds, and RBG has been dead less than a day? Shame on you.