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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsQuestion Re Roe v Wade
If the Supreme Court votes to overturn Roe v Wade can the individual states still vote to keep abortion legal? I cannot see the Blue states going down without a huge legal fight. I just am curious if the SC will leave it up to the states if they in fact, vote to overturn.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,576 posts)was hold that states couldn't outlaw most abortions. If it were overturned the individual states could choose either to keep abortions legal or to stop or restrict them. Before Roe v. Wade was decided, 30 states prohibited abortion without exception, 16 states banned it except in certain special circumstances (e.g., rape, incest, health threat to mother), 3 states allowed residents to obtain them, and New York allowed abortions generally. What the states would do if Roe were overturned now would depend on whether Democrats or Republicans controlled their legislatures.
AlexSFCA
(6,137 posts)which in turn would nullify al inequities between men and women including reproductive rights
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,576 posts)because most abortions have been legal for more than 40 years. If that right is suddenly taken away there would be political hell to pay and the blowback would be considerable. Don't think for a minute that the Supreme Court is oblivious to political and social currents, which is why they could be reluctant to overturn it. I could see them whittling its application down, but even if one of Trump's Federalist Society whack jobs ends up on the court, I'd be surprised if Roberts didn't make sure they didn't ditch it altogether.
AlexSFCA
(6,137 posts)it would be gradual. I dont think there is SC case that is more established in as many cases in all kinds of courts as r v wade. Roberts said on at least two occasions that row v wade is settled law.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,576 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)IMO they don't really want this to happen.
There are voters who would vote Democratic but for their opposition to abortion. If they felt it were safely prohibited, they might vote D.
Eliot Rosewater
(31,106 posts)birth control a federal crime of murder? Making states irrelevant?
Probably wouldnt be support for this, which is why I think Barr and other mass murdering traitors are going to do much worse somehow.
Hope not.
What I do think is this will bring together the 60% of this country who are adults. BTW is anyone still not voting? sigh
I believe this will galvanize people who dont vote, I hope anyway. Their lives are all but over otherwise. This is a short list of what will be lost. There is another one with over one hundred.
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INTERSTATE HIGHWAY SYSTEM-era: 1950's-present
Proposed by Roosevelt and erected by Eisenhower (a Republican), the
Interstate system was a big government project. As much as anything else in the post WWII era, the Interstate is responsible for tremendous economic growth, prosperity, and has spawned an entire culture.
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GI BILL-era: 1950's
This act of Congress enabled millions upon millions of Americans to get
college educations, something that most Americans had never had the
opportunity to do previously. An entire generation of leaders, scientists,
and business people owe their education to the GI Bill.
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LABOR LAWS-era: 1930's-present
An end to child labor, 40 hour work weeks, the right of employees to
collectively bargain, overtime pay, workplace safety, all of the things we
take for granted today are thanks to liberal laws passed in the first half
of this century. It was the conservatives who fought tooth and nail against the end of sweatshops and exploitation.
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MARSHALL PLAN-era: late 1940's-1950's
Foreign aid is a popular scapegoat these days. Those who would cut it should look back at the Marshall Plan, which rebuilt Europe, and is the major reason that Communism never made it past East Berlin.
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ENVIRONMENTAL LAWS-era: 1970's-present
The environment has gotten much better in the last 30 years thanks to
liberals. Bald Eagles fly once again thanks to endangered species laws, most rivers and lakes are clean again due to anti-pollution laws, and frequent smog days are a thing of the past in most big American cities.
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FOOD SAFETY LAWS-era: 1910's-present
Today cases of food poisoning are rare, and consumers know that whatever they buy is safe to eat.
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WORKPLACE SAFETY LAWS-era: 1930's-present
Long hours in unsafe conditions are much rarer today than in the past.
Tragedies such as the Triangle Shirtwaist fire and child labor have been
eliminated by liberal and progressive legislation.
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SOCIAL SECURITY-era: 1930's-1970's
This program has provided three generations of Americans retirement
benefits, and nearly eliminated poverty among the elderly. The program is
weakening now, but for 50 years it did its job to a T.
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MEDICARE-Passed in 1965 despite the cries of socialism from Reagan and other conservatives, gave economic security and health care to people over age 65.
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ECONOMIC GROWTH-era: 1950's-1960's, 90's
Liberalism and economic prosperity go hand-in-hand. Unlike the pseudo-boom
of the 1980's and tinkle down economics, the 50's,60's, 90's were a period of sustained and real growth for all sectors of the economy and all social classes. Taxes were fair, government worked, and America prospered.
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SPACE PROGRAM-era: 1950's-present
It was Kennedy who challenged us to make it to the moon, and it is under his and Johnson's administrations that the space program took off, with numerous benefits to American industry and peoples' standard of living, not to mention national pride. If you are reading this on a computer, thank the space program and the liberals who got it going.
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PEACE CORPS-era: 1960's-present
Kennedy inspired thousands of Americans to ask what they could do for their country, and the Peace Corps is his most visible and effective
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CIVIL RIGHTS-era: 1950's-present
Liberal ideals drove the biggest change in American society since the Civil War, the civil rights movement of the 1950s and 1960s. All Americans who believe in freedom and opportunity cannot help but be inspired by the valiant struggles of MLK and others. Also recall if you will that the major opponents of civil rights were conservatives.
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THE TENNESSEE VALLEY PROJECT-era: 1930's
The Depression-era government program bought electricity to thousands of
impoverished families in Appalachia, prevented floods, and created thousands of new jobs.
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WOMEN'S RIGHT TO VOTE-era: 1920's-present
Before 1920, half of America's population could not exercise the essential
duty of citizenship.
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UNIVERSAL PUBLIC EDUCATION-era: 1890's-present
The reason America is/was so strong economically is because we have a
well-educated citizenry. Public schooling is the true melting pot of
America, where every student, regardless of economic background can be
taught the basics of citizenship. It is no coincidence that in the last 20
years, as conservatives have greatly weakened the public school system, that American students have scored lower on tests and our civic society has started to unravel. (this might be attributed to talk radio, Fox news, and media in general dumbing down our society as well)
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NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE-era: 1930's-present
This is one of those things you never think about, but you are glad its
there. Far from just forecasting the weather, the NWS also provides vital
data to pilots and sailors, and the NWS satellites and observation posts
provide the raw data that all other weather forecasting services (private
ones too!) depend on.
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PRODUCT LABELING/TRUTH IN ADVERTISING LAWS-era: 1910's-present
"We take it for granted that if a claim is made publicly for a product, it's reasonable to assume it's true. Plus, every time we check the ingredients on a can or package of food, we should mentally call down blessings on the liberals who passed the necessary legislation over the anguished howls of the conservatives, who were convinced such info would be prohibitively expensive, and too big a burden on business."
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PUBLIC HEALTH-era: 1910's-present
Government funded water and sewage systems are an important part of
modernity. In addition, organizations such as the National Institute of
Health and the Center for Disease Control play an important part in
maintaining the national health and preventing epidemics through research,
vaccination programs, etc. ....why not now add the PUBLIC OPTION!!!
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MORRILL LAND GRANT ACT-era: late 1800's
This act is the reason why nearly every state in the Union has a large
public university. These centers of learning have educated untold millions
of Americans. If you went to a school with a state name in it, then you were helped by liberalism.
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RURAL ELECTRIFICATION-era: 1930's-1960's
This allowed remote, rural areas of the country the basic convinience of
electricity. I am sure that those of us using computers on the internet,
sitting in our air conditioned homes, under our electric lights consider
electricity a basic necessity - one that the pure market would never have
found profitable to provide to isolated farming communities.
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PUBLIC UNIVERSITIES-era: 1890's-present day
Put a college education within the reach of nearly every American. In
addition to education, many of these institutions have played key roles in
all kinds of scientific research and been a strong influence on our entire
society.
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BANK DEPOSIT INSURANCE-era: 1930's-present day
About 1934, as part of extensive New Deal banking legislation, Congress
created the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) to provide federal insurance for bank deposits.Ê This was instrumental in restoring confidence in our nation's banks, and remains so to this day.
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EARNED INCOME TAX CREDIT-era: 1970's-present day
Reduces the tax burden for working families who make under $28,500.00 You
have to earn income to get it. It is not a handout. It's a great incentive
for families to stay off welfare. But Republicans had to find a way to pay for their capital-gains tax cut, and EITC was their ticket to success. So, the Republicans voted to cut this program by $29 billion over a certain time frame. Well guess what? They just raised the taxes on lower income working families.
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FAMILY AND MEDICAL LEAVE ACT-era: 1993-present day
This is a program which mandates that you have the right to job leave to
take care of sick family members, or to have a child. Many conservatives
were opposed to this valuable piece of legislation. Perhaps they were
opposed to family values?
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CONSUMER PRODUCT SAFETY COMMISSION-era: 1972-present day
These guys regulate consumer products for safety. Everything from sharp (and edible) baby toys to flammable pajamas have been taken off the market due to the work of this commission.
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PUBLIC BROADCASTING-era: 1930's-present day
Millions of our children have learned from shows like Sesame Street, 3-2-1
Contact, and Mister Rogers (and so many more). Millions of adults continue
to learn from shows like Nova. Also, the best broadcast journalism is by far National Public Radio. PBS and NPR have served to enrich our national
culture.
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AMERICANS WITH DISABILITIES ACT-era: 1990-present day
Civil rights for disabled citizens. It is fair, just, and it is the law of
the land. Credit where credit is due, former Senator Bob Dole helped push
this through, a rare nod in favor of liberalism from Mr. Dole.
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Demsrule86
(68,455 posts)invalidate the anti-sodomy law passed in 2003...Lawrence VS Texas. We could see Gay people locked up again...this is a very tough thing. The only way out is to elect Biden and pack the courts. which means we have to win the Senate.
AlexSFCA
(6,137 posts)there is a decent chance the acceptance of lgbt has grown within the SC. That was a monumental ruling, in a sense that even many liberal legal scholars understood sex is as different from sexual orientation so the fact that conservative justices went as far as equating those for legal purposes, is bigger than even same sex marriage ruling.
Demsrule86
(68,455 posts)Cerridwen
(13,252 posts)Abortion trigger laws in the United States
States with trigger laws or pre-Roe bans on abortion that would make abortion illegal in the state if Roe v. Wade were overturned
In the United States, nine states Arkansas, Idaho, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, North Dakota, Missouri, Tennessee, South Dakota and Utah have trigger laws that would automatically ban abortion in the first and second trimesters if the landmark case Roe v. Wade were overturned.[1][2][3] Illinois formerly had a trigger law (enacted in 1975), but repealed it in 2017.[4][5][6] Also, nine states Alabama, Arizona, Michigan, New Mexico, Oklahoma, West Virginia, and Wisconsin as well as the already mentioned Arkansas and Mississippi, still have their unenforced pre-Roe abortion bans on the lawbooks, which are not currently enforceable due to Roe, but could start being enforced if Roe were overturned.[2]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trigger_law
https://www.reproductiverights.org/what-if-roe-fell
What if Roe fell? (interactive state look-up)
From Guttmacher -
https://www.guttmacher.org/state-policy/explore/abortion-policy-absence-roe
Highlights
21 states have laws that could be used to restrict the legal status of abortion.
9 states retain their unenforced, pre-Roe abortion bans.
10 states have post-Roe laws to ban all or nearly all abortions that would be triggered if Roe were overturned.
9 states have unconstitutional post-Roe restrictions that are currently blocked by courts but could be brought back into effect with a court order in Roes absence.
7 states have laws that express the intent to restrict the right to legal abortion to the maximum extent permitted by the U.S. Supreme Court in the absence of Roe.
Abortion Policy in the Absence of Roe
Background
Changes to the makeup of the U.S. Supreme Court in 2018 raise the possibility that Roe v. Wade could be severely underminedor even overturnedessentially leaving the legality of abortion to individual states. A reversal of Roe could establish a legal path for states pre-1973 abortion bans, as well as currently unenforced post-1973 bans, to take effect.
Many state lawmakers continue to consider and enact abortion bans that fly in the face of constitutional standards and Roes precedent in anticipation of an eventual lawsuit on such a ban coming before a Supreme Court hostile to abortion rights.
Some bans prohibit abortion under all or nearly all circumstances, a tactic widely viewed as an attempt to provoke a legal challenge to Roe. Several of this type of ban that were passed by states have been blocked by court orders and would require further court action to be enforced.
Other bans enacted after Roe are designed to be triggered and take effect automatically or by swift state action if Roe is overturned. Several states even have laws declaring the states intent to ban abortion to whatever extent is permitted by the U.S. Constitution, making their desire to halt abortion access in the state clear.
roamer65
(36,744 posts)Michigan has a law against adultery. It is not enforced.
Our AG Dana Nessel will make sure the outdated abortion law is not enforced.
Cerridwen
(13,252 posts)Chapter 6
Raids and Rules
In August 1940, Chicago police raided the Gabler-Mar-tin abortion clinic on 190 North State Street. Police arrested Mrs. Ada Martin, the clinic's new owner; her receptionist, Josephine Kuder; and, as Capt. Thomas Duffy put it, "four girls who were in the office for surgical attention." That raid failed to close Martin's office. Six months later, eighteen police officers again raided the clinic on the morning of February 7, 1941. As Martin later described the events in court, Capt. Duffy entered the office and demanded of her, "Where is your customers?" Then the police "started moving couches and tables and going through all the cupboards and the cash box." The police seized the clinic's furniture, papers, and patient records and arrested Martin and Kuder. Several days later, police entered a business office of Martin's and drilled open a safe from which they confiscated all patient and financial records. The office, Martin recalled, looked "like . . . a bomb shell had hit it." Two and a half months later, police "ransacked" Martin's home and seized more records.[1] When Martin and Kuder came to trial for conspiracy to commit abortion, the prosecution's case against them featured two dozen former patients, who testified about their abortions at the State Street office.
<snip>
One of the purposes of raiding abortionists' offices was to catch women patients. From the start of the State Street investigation, police and prosecutors intended to find patients. When police raided Martin's practice the first time, they caught "four girls." When they raided again in 1941, Capt. Duffy asked Martin, "Where is your customers?" [2] During a raid of another abortion office on State Street, police broke down a door and "found one woman under an anesthetic on an operating table, and another on a cot, resting after an operation." Detectives questioned both women.[3] If police failed to catch patients on the spot, they looked for patient records to locate former patients for questioning. In the Martin case, police confiscated thousands of patient records.[4]
The new mode of enforcing the criminal abortion laws brought women into contact with the criminal justice system in unprecedented ways. Like the old mode, the state's methods used interrogation and the humiliation of public exposure to penalize women who had abortions. However, rather than relying on dying declarations as the primary evidence against accused abortionists, prosecutors now took the novel approach of looking for healthy female patients to serve as witnesses against their abortionists. Prosecutors showed great persistence in tracking down women who had illegal abortions and routinely brought them into the courtroom and put their abortions on display for judge, jury, and journalist. Women had before felt the force of law during interrogations on their deathbeds; now women were forced to speak of their abortions in the male-dominated spaces of the police station and the courtroom.
<snip to way more>
Link to ebook: https://publishing.cdlib.org/ucpressebooks/view?docId=ft967nb5z5&chunk.id=d0e3371&toc.depth=1&toc.id=d0e3371&brand=ucpress
roamer65
(36,744 posts)There will at least be a good amount of states and the whole of Canada for abortion services.
I am in complete favor of abortion on demand.
Cerridwen
(13,252 posts)Just in case
/sarcasm
roamer65
(36,744 posts)JustABozoOnThisBus
(23,315 posts)But, even if the border opens, it only makes abortion available to women with money. Not everyone has the means to travel to another state or country for medical procedures.
roamer65
(36,744 posts)Ill give to a fund.
Yavin4
(35,420 posts)Talk about mass incarceration.
roamer65
(36,744 posts)No one enforces it because 75 pct of the state would be in prison. It is a felony in Michigan if the victimized spouse filed a complaint within one year.
In reality, it is very uncommon for anyone to be tried for it.
Yavin4
(35,420 posts)roamer65
(36,744 posts)Yavin4
(35,420 posts)or other measures/medicines that would result in an abortion. Would those also be illegal in some states? What you would have in essence is women health care being dictated by different state legislatures.
Some fundies believe that birth control is a form of abortion. Would that be illegal as well?
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,576 posts)predates Roe, so overturning Roe (presumably) would not affect Griswold, unless that were also part of the holding.
Cerridwen
(13,252 posts)How do those tie in?
Yavin4
(35,420 posts)The Court reasoned that outlawing abortions would infringe a pregnant woman's right to privacy for several reasons: having unwanted children "may force upon the woman a distressful life and future"; it may bring imminent psychological harm; caring for the child may tax the mother's physical and mental health; and because there may be "distress, for all concerned, associated with the unwanted child".[51] But then the Court rejected the notion that this right to privacy was absolute. It held instead that the abortion right must be balanced against other government interests. The Court found two government interests that were sufficiently "compelling" to permit states to impose some limitations on the right to choose to have an abortion: first, protecting the mother's health, and second, protecting the life of the fetus.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roe_v._Wade
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,576 posts)Yavin4
(35,420 posts)They would have to say that there is no Right to Privacy. The states can regulate your individual choices and behaviors.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,304 posts)In some states, they already are. People have had to carry dead fetuses until their bodies expel them "naturally" because they can't get a procedure to remove the remains.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Roe v. Wade held it a violation of the federal constitution.
Calif. has the right to choose in its own state constitution.
Yavin4
(35,420 posts)Set up stops at the borders and check?
roamer65
(36,744 posts)There will be a lot of vacations to Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver.
Plus there will be a lot of us helping near the border if needed...an Underground Railroad.
JustABozoOnThisBus
(23,315 posts)Gas, restaurants, motels, many of us have no problem with that. But not all.
roamer65
(36,744 posts)On the IL side of the river.
Fuck Missouri.
treestar
(82,383 posts)where they can't have it illegal, they try to make it a long trip - in large western red states, that is often the case. Wasn't there only one location left in MO, if I recall correctly. They had made so many other restrictions, to make it hard to access even when legal.
Rich women will always have access; it's the poorer women who don't.
Desert grandma
(803 posts)A whole new industry will develop transporting women to states that will allow abortion. The sad thing is that mostly wealthier women could afford it. Unless of course non profit groups set up a system that moved these women who qualify to their counterparts in states that have no such restrictions.
treestar
(82,383 posts)That will frustrate them.