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In It to Win It

(8,236 posts)
Sun Sep 20, 2020, 02:54 PM Sep 2020

Here's what I truly don't understand about the religious anti-abortion people

My family are very religious people. They grew up in the backwoods of the state of Georgia on a farm. I grew up in a religious setting. Growing up in that setting is the reason I’m not religious today. My grandmother was a southern Baptist woman that made sure my cousins and I went to church and was baptized. I hated it!

I’m saying all that to say I was always taught that God makes the ultimate judgment for everyone. Everything goes according to God’s plan and God don’t need help. Everyone will get their day of judgment when the Lord calls them.

That leads me to the question why exactly do they care? If God is the ultimate decider, what makes them think that they can cast judgement upon the mere mortals on Earth?

What makes them feel so righteous to but into other people’s lives?

I would assume that any Christian would believe that any decision of whether someone should be punished for having an abortion or performing one does not belong with any mere mortal on this Earth. It belongs to God and God alone.

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Here's what I truly don't understand about the religious anti-abortion people (Original Post) In It to Win It Sep 2020 OP
Anti-abortion views have nothing to do with God or religion. LonePirate Sep 2020 #1
That's not true. I can give you the phone number Drahthaardogs Sep 2020 #16
Agreed. Ms. Toad Sep 2020 #18
What I truly believe about the majority of the religious right TheRealNorth Sep 2020 #2
What you are doing is called thinking dreamland Sep 2020 #3
In the olden days, many fundamentalist Christians SharonClark Sep 2020 #4
Yes, I understand that In It to Win It Sep 2020 #7
They're obviously not followers of the bible. cos dem Sep 2020 #5
Power. This is at the heart of the patriarchy. procon Sep 2020 #6
Exactly. It is about controlling women. If men gave birth, this would not be an issue. Midnight Writer Sep 2020 #10
Pro-life is a myth. keithbvadu2 Sep 2020 #14
Abortion, birth control, welfare are all ways to avoid the natural consequences... Thomas Hurt Sep 2020 #8
They believe God will punish them for the "sins" of others. Mariana Sep 2020 #9
From what I've heard of history, the white Evilgelicals... Crunchy Frog Sep 2020 #11
This Shermann Sep 2020 #12
You are correct! moose65 Sep 2020 #13
A lot of them say that the bible tells them to "cast righteous judgment." WhiskeyGrinder Sep 2020 #15
Most anti abortion people are anti choice. It's about denying women JI7 Sep 2020 #17
oh those men do... uriel1972 Sep 2020 #19
I agree with those saying it's about controlling women's bodies... myccrider Sep 2020 #20
"..do not do evil that good may come" shuts them down when it comes to Trump but most of ... uponit7771 Sep 2020 #21
What? You didn't like getting drowned on a regular basis? Xolodno Sep 2020 #22
Its all about keeping women in their place jcgoldie Sep 2020 #23

LonePirate

(13,417 posts)
1. Anti-abortion views have nothing to do with God or religion.
Sun Sep 20, 2020, 03:03 PM
Sep 2020

Those views are about subjugating women and maintaining the white race. If you have any doubt about the racism which is implicit in anti-abortion views, notice the absolute lack of outrage from anti-abortion types over the forced hysterectomies performed on refugees/immigrants by our very own government.

Drahthaardogs

(6,843 posts)
16. That's not true. I can give you the phone number
Sun Sep 20, 2020, 09:43 PM
Sep 2020

Of a Sister if Charity who is anti-abortion, anti-euthanasia, anti-death penalty, and horrified at the treatment of refugees.

She is my aunt so I know her pretty well.

Ms. Toad

(34,062 posts)
18. Agreed.
Sun Sep 20, 2020, 09:47 PM
Sep 2020

I personally know many Catholics who are sincere, and non-hypocritical in their beliefs about matters of humans deciding to take the life of another, whether by abortion, death penaty, war, etc.

That does not mean that all Catholics are similarly consistent, but it is a not insignificant number.

TheRealNorth

(9,478 posts)
2. What I truly believe about the majority of the religious right
Sun Sep 20, 2020, 03:04 PM
Sep 2020

it has nothing to do about following the Church of Christ. Its about being able to denounce others with the sanction of their religion. In essence, its a way to feel superior because of God.

All the guys that I knew in my 20's that were anti-abortion were trying to get laid (out of wedlock) on Fri and Sat night like me. So they were definitely picking and choosing which sins were more important.

SharonClark

(10,014 posts)
4. In the olden days, many fundamentalist Christians
Sun Sep 20, 2020, 03:16 PM
Sep 2020

didn’t vote or participate in politics because it was “worldly”. Then, the gop figured out how to exploit them by telling them their religion was being attacked by secularists, liberals, globalist, and Democrats. That was reinforced by talk radio, Christian grifters, and now by Faux Noise. It’s a political strategy, not really representative of religious belief.

In It to Win It

(8,236 posts)
7. Yes, I understand that
Sun Sep 20, 2020, 03:29 PM
Sep 2020

Yet they continue to fall for it. Hook line and sinker.

They pick people who have no intention of acting on their anti abortion stance but rather pass that issue to the unelected branch of government to act like their doing something.

procon

(15,805 posts)
6. Power. This is at the heart of the patriarchy.
Sun Sep 20, 2020, 03:28 PM
Sep 2020

Male domination and female submission. It's about power and control. It's little, impotent, weak, craven, stupid and violent men stoking their fragile egos by bullying, browbeating and punishing women.

Men have been at it for centuries. They've perfected their domination act to a fine performance art, even convincing some ignorant women to take up sides against their own gender.

They will not stand. Their umbrella of religious taboos is threadbare and no longer the bugaboo of millenniums past.

Women are the majority. Women vote. Women organize and inspire movements. Make it so.

keithbvadu2

(36,775 posts)
14. Pro-life is a myth.
Sun Sep 20, 2020, 09:30 PM
Sep 2020

Pro-life is a myth.

The supposed pro-lifers cared naught when the state of Texas (republican gov, republican Prez) deliberately killed living baby Sun Hudson against the mother's wishes because he was an inconvenience to the state.

It is not a matter of life to the supposed pro-lifers.

It is a matter of control.

Thomas Hurt

(13,903 posts)
8. Abortion, birth control, welfare are all ways to avoid the natural consequences...
Sun Sep 20, 2020, 03:37 PM
Sep 2020

of what the christian right see as sins. If you are on welfare you are lazy and you avoid starving and getting a job with it.

You get the idea.

The moral scolds can not suffer that people get away with something they aren't allowed, in their minds, to do themselves.

Well, those that aren't rank hypocrites anyway.

They are playing God and attempting to punish people.

Crunchy Frog

(26,579 posts)
11. From what I've heard of history, the white Evilgelicals...
Sun Sep 20, 2020, 04:16 PM
Sep 2020

didn't have strong feelings about the issue until RWers decided to politcize it and turn it into a wedge issue that could mobilize votes for Rs.

Historically, I think it was only Catholics who had a strong position on the issue.

What I don't understand is why these Evilgelicals would be so against what they must believe is the sending of innocent baby's souls to Heaven before they have the possibility before they have the possibility of becoming unsaved and spending eternity in Hell.

Shermann

(7,412 posts)
12. This
Sun Sep 20, 2020, 04:54 PM
Sep 2020

It is the Mother of All wedge issues designed to mobilize votes. Why tackle difficult issues like climate change and poverty where success can be so elusive? With a manufactured issue like this, you set the bar and are automatically on the winning side of it from Day One. As a bonus, the other side can be made to look immoral through propaganda. The real injustice of course is in making pawns of the real disadvantaged women caught in the gears. It's the cost of doing business.

If anybody believes these privileged white men have such deep empathy for zygotes, I have some swampland in Florida to sell you.

moose65

(3,166 posts)
13. You are correct!
Sun Sep 20, 2020, 05:05 PM
Sep 2020

In fact, for the first few years after Roe v Wade, there was NO backlash from evangelicals. In fact, some evangelical pastors even spoke out in favor of it!

It wasn’t until St. Reagan was running for President in 1979 that Jerry Falwell and others hit on the abortion issue as a way to rally the faithful to their cause.

WhiskeyGrinder

(22,326 posts)
15. A lot of them say that the bible tells them to "cast righteous judgment."
Sun Sep 20, 2020, 09:42 PM
Sep 2020

The 10 commandments say do not murder, and Christ said love your neighbor as yourself. Preventing abortion is loving the unborn neighbor, as they see it.

I would assume that any Christian would believe that any decision of whether someone should be punished for having an abortion or performing one does not belong with any mere mortal on this Earth. It belongs to God and God alone.
Some of them believe that it is their life's task to inform the rest of us that God will judge us, and that work is showing love. It's batshit.

JI7

(89,247 posts)
17. Most anti abortion people are anti choice. It's about denying women
Sun Sep 20, 2020, 09:46 PM
Sep 2020

freedom over their body and therefore their life.

The ones who truly are against abortion are probably a very small number. Mostly religious and female.

But the men would easily demand a woman get an abortion if it was inconvenient for them.

myccrider

(484 posts)
20. I agree with those saying it's about controlling women's bodies...
Sun Sep 20, 2020, 10:31 PM
Sep 2020

and power. It’s power for the GOP & religious leaders, it’s controlling women/female sexuality for many ‘in the pews’, it’s a warped empathy for ‘babies’ for some of the young and naive. One of the best responses I’ve read to the abortion issue was from an ex-abortion opponent.

"How I Lost Faith in the Pro-Life Movement"
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2012/10/how-i-lost-faith-in-the-pro-life-movement.html

Some quick quotes (but I encourage all to read it in full):
******************************
"I was raised in the sort of evangelical family where abortion is the number one political issue. I grew up believing that abortion was murder, and when I stopped identifying as pro-life I initially still believed that. Why, then, did I stop identifying as pro-life? Quite simply, I learned that increasing contraceptive use, not banning abortion, was the key to decreasing the number of abortions. Given that the pro-life movement focuses on banning abortion and is generally opposed advocating greater contraceptive use, I knew that I no longer fit. I also knew that my biggest allies in decreasing the number of abortions were those who supported increased birth control use – in other words, pro-choice progressives. And so I stopped calling myself pro-life.

My views on fetal personhood and women’s bodily autonomy have shifted since that day, but when I first started blogging a year and a half ago I was nevertheless very insistent that the pro-life movement should be taken at its word when it came to rhetoric about saving “unborn babies” from being “murdered.” I insisted that the pro-life movement wasn’t anti-woman or anti-sex, and that those who opposed abortion genuinely believed that a zygote/embryo/fetus was a person with rights in need of protection just like any other person. I believed that the pro-life movement’s actions were counterproductive, but that they were merely misinformed. I wrote a post with practical suggestions for opponents of abortion. I believed that the pro-life movement was genuine in its goals, but simply ignorant about how its goals might best be obtained.

I have come to the conclusion that I was wrong."

[snip]

"If it were about babies, they would be making access to birth control widespread and free and creating a comprehensive social safety net so that no woman finds herself with a pregnancy she can’t afford. They would be raising money for research on why half of all zygotes fail to implant and working to prevent miscarriages. It’s not about babies. It’s about controlling women. It’s about making sure they have consequences for having unapproved sex."

**********************************

MY fave rant centers on bodily autonomy. [Posed as a question] If the government is allowed to force a woman to use her body in pregnancy to keep someone else alive, regardless of the wishes of or consequences to that woman, then would it be moral/ethical/legal for the gov to set up a national database that matches those in need of livers, kidneys, bone marrow, blood, etc with all adult citizens and if you are a match then you should HAVE.NO.CHOICE about donating to prevent someone else’s death, regardless of cost, lost work/school time, medical repercussions, etc? What’s good for the goose...

Later,

uponit7771

(90,335 posts)
21. "..do not do evil that good may come" shuts them down when it comes to Trump but most of ...
Sun Sep 20, 2020, 11:14 PM
Sep 2020

... their biblical beliefs when it comes to abortion (which are wrong) are born out in the church and what someone they trust says about it.

Show them Exodus 20 ... their faces drop then they call you a liar or they throw away the bible.

that simple, they want to be right about the issue could care less about "children"

Xolodno

(6,390 posts)
22. What? You didn't like getting drowned on a regular basis?
Sun Sep 20, 2020, 11:34 PM
Sep 2020

Being serious, there are only two options.

1. They don't believe God is in control and thus hypocrites.

2. It isn't about God, but them being able to stand on their pedestal and being smug about being righteous and condemning people. Of Christ has some choice words about them practicing their piety in public.

Doesn't help most never have even read the Bible cover to cover at least once and rely on church sponsored materials for study, sermon, etc., that avoids certain details. And the excuse is, the professionals know what they are doing. Easier to dress up nice on Sunday, head out for a time....then rush for Brunch and get that bloody mary.

jcgoldie

(11,631 posts)
23. Its all about keeping women in their place
Sun Sep 20, 2020, 11:51 PM
Sep 2020

Abortion is their hot button issue because they can't stand for women to control the reproductive process by making choices about their bodies.

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