Gasping For Air: Autopsies Reveal Troubling Effects Of Lethal Injection

[WhiskeyGrinder]

https://www.npr.org/2020/09/21/793177589/gasping-for-air-autopsies-reveal-troubling-effects-of-lethal-injection

Snipped to get to the nut of it:

"The autopsy findings were quite striking and unambiguous," says Zivot. He had imagined that lethal injection induced a quick death and would leave an inmate's body pristine, or at least close to it. But the autopsies told another story.

"I began to see a picture that was more consistent with a slower death," he says. "A death of organ failure, of a dramatic nature that I recognized would be associated with suffering."

(snip)

The froth was a clue: It meant that the inmates were still alive and trying to breathe as their lungs filled with fluid, because froth could form only if air was still passing through the lungs. It also meant that the pulmonary edema was being caused by the first drug given during a lethal injection, since the second drug, a paralytic, stops the inmate's breathing altogether.

Now, an NPR investigation has expanded the scope of this evidence of pulmonary edema significantly. A review of more than 200 autopsies — obtained through public records requests — showed signs of pulmonary edema in 84% of the cases. The findings were similar across the states and, notably, across the different drug protocols used.

[Dem2theMax]

1. There's a reason it says 'murder' as cause of death on their death certificates.

[FBaggins]

3. Not "murder"... "Homicide"

because the other options don't fit. It isn't an accident... or natural causes... or unknown... or suicide.

[Mariana]

10. Their death certificates do not say "murder".

Telling such obvious lies doesn't help eliminate capital punishment.

[Dem2theMax]

18. Oh for crying out loud, I used the wrong word.

Last edited Tue Sep 22, 2020, 01:50 AM - Edit history (1)

Homicide. There, are you happy?

And how dare you call me a liar. That has no place on this board.

[BigmanPigman]

2. When animals are put to sleep at the vet's office

they don't froth. Why are they doing it this way with people? Do they want people to suffer but not pets? Sick.

[OAITW r.2.0]

5. I've been thru that a few times with pets.

Never easy, but I saw no suffering. Just a quite end. Like how I'd want to go.....

[BigmanPigman]

6. I just had to do it in June.

I am still crying every day but I know she didn't suffer.

[OAITW r.2.0]

8. Never easy, my friend....

they become part of the family. When their quality of line flatlines, it has to be totally misery for them and they can't verbalize it. We give them final comfort as they exit. What better, more humane way?

[Mariana]

12. How do you know what happens in the animals' lungs and bronchial tubes?

If the prisoners were visibly frothing at the mouth during executions, no one would have to read autopsy reports to find out about it. The witnesses would see it happening.

[Sgent]

19. We don't use the same

drugs on people vs animals. Many non-US jurisdictions don't allow the export of drugs for use in capital punishment, limiting which drugs can be used in the US. Even many US drug companies won't knowingly sell for that purpose.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

20. I've been wondering this myself for a long time.

I have been with cats when they've been euthanized, and it's very quick. Why can we do this with cats and dogs and not with humans?

[Disaffected]

21. Good question

This entire business of lethal injection has been a cockup from the outset.

IMO China has the most "humane" method (if there has to be one which there shouldn't) - single bullet to the nape of the neck.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

28. For what it's worth, the guillotine was promoted

as a "humane" way of execution.

[Disaffected]

30. The problem with the guillotine

is that there is reason to believe that unconsciousness does not follow immediately, at least in some cases, and suffering therefore might be experienced.

A well aimed bullet to the base of the skull OTOH destroys the brainstem and is therefore thought to confer instantaneous unconsciousness.

I realize there is no good way of verifying what the subject experiences in these specific instances but it's a pretty good supposition IMO.

[misanthrope]

4. So we're to understand that humans are capable of

painlessly euthanizing non-human animals but we can't do the same with these executions? If the answer is that we're capable of having these people "put to sleep" but we just don't care to exercise the mercy, then that makes the sentence less a matter of justice and more one of vengeance.

[USALiberal]

7. Some here still like the death penalty! Nt

[Celerity]

14. many do, it is barbaric

The only exceptions I might make is for crimes against humanity and/or waging aggressive war, and then it should be tried by an international tribunal.

Treason at a high level too.

Mixed emotions even on that. I think it is the fact that for the first time in my life I want to see some in the US government and/or Trump family executed. Trump, Pence, Barr, Moscow Mitch, Ivanka, Jared, Miller, Don Jr., Eric, De Vos, Mnuchin, Pompeo, Chao, and any other motherfucker who worked with or for Russia at a high level. The QAnon leaders too, they are deserving of execution.

I am so conflicted there. Hate rules my emotions (again for the first time in my life), and I know it is wrong, but millions will die prematurely because of those motherfuckers (COVID-19 being just a small part of the death count btw).

[obamanut2012]

25. Then you don't consider it actually barbaric or murder

You cannot be anti DP with exceptions. It's like saying you are vegan, except for a nice steak three times a year. You are or you aren't.

[Celerity]

27. I disagree, some crimes are too immense to not at least consider the option.

Your steak/vegan example is chalk and cheese.

That is not to say I still may go back to being against capital punishment in ALL cases. Still wrestling with this. The main example of it being perhaps justified was the Nazi leaders.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

22. According to the article, 56 percent of Americans do. I'm against it, myself.

[msongs]

9. I was not the slightest bit sad the night ted bundy was executed. nt

[USALiberal]

15. You would love China! Nt

[msongs]

17. did ted bundy hack any people to death n china? nt

[WhiskeyGrinder]

23. He was executed in the electric chair, which has its own issues.

[obamanut2012]

26. bless your heart

[LanternWaste]

31. Is anyone arguing you should have been?

If not, what is the precise and specific relevance of your sentiment?

[EX500rider]

11. Personally I would prefer carbon monoxide or dioxide poisoning if was to be me. nt

[Crunchy Frog]

13. That should make the Rs very happy.

[Blue Owl]

16. Trump has such good genes I bet he's immune to the lethal injection chemicals

Let's find out...

[WhiskeyGrinder]

24. what if we... abolished the death penalty.. entirely.. aha ha, just kidding.. unless..?

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

29. I am completely opposed to the death penalty.

Or, as it should more correctly be called, judicial murder.

Oddly enough, we are one of the very few countries who still murders people this way. We're in the excellent company of Saudi Arabia, China, Afghanistan, and several others.