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Tom Rinaldo

(22,911 posts)
Thu Sep 24, 2020, 12:21 PM Sep 2020

A political tactic once used by NY Governor Cuomo could save our Democracy in a worst case scenario

I found myself thinking about this today as I pondered the nightmare scenario being advanced by Trump. Specifically, having Republican State Legislatures in critical swing states halt the count of mail in votes in those States and/or declare the November election invalid for one or more "reasons", followed by their naming of Trump supporters as presidential electors while disregarding the actual popular vote. I remembered an event from the not so distant history of New York State.

The year was 2011 and much of the nation was grappling with the issue of legalizing same sex marriages. The passage of the Marriage Equality Act of 2011 made New York State "the sixth state in the United States to legalize and retain the in-state certification and legalization of same-sex marriage (excluding California, which legalized and performed some 18,000 same-sex marriages before a ban on further marriages was promulgated through referendum), and also made the state the most populous in the union to do so" - Wikipedia. But in order to win passage, this act had to win approval in the New York State Senate which at that time was under Republican Control.

Same sex marriages was still very much a hot button social issue for most Republicans in New York State in 2011. In May 2011, the Conservative Party of New York State stated that it would withdraw support for any candidate who supported same-sex marriage. Any Republican state senator who defied the Republican conservative base on that issue faced the likelihood of severe electoral retribution from conservative voters, should they vote for Marriage Equality and then seek reelection to their seats. Fear of that type of retribution contributed to the defeat of a similar effort to legalize same sex marriage in 2009, when Republicans in the NY State Senate opposed it unanimously. However the Marriage Equality Act of 2011 did pass the Republican State Senate by a vote of 33-29 with only one Democrat opposing it and four Republicans supporting it.

What went on behind the scenes before that historic vote could well be called back room politics with a full measure of wheeling and dealing and certain "understandings reached". I'm no political reporter with extensive insider sources so I can only relate what I remember from that time, and subsequent news coverage of the aftermath. The four Republican state senators who voted for same sex marriage in 2011 were Sens. James Alesi, Mark Grisanti, Roy McDonald, and Stephen Saland. On October 19, 2012 Andrew Cuomo endorsed Stephen Salad for reelection:

Cuomo Backs Republican Who Voted For Marriage Equality
"Governor Andrew Cuomo of New York endorsed Senator Stephen Saland for reelection Thursday, marking the first time the popular Democrat has backed a member of the Republican Party.

Saland provided one of four Republican votes for the marriage equality legislation that passed the GOP-controlled state senate last year. His vote became an issue in his primary campaign, which he narrowly won last month. The twelve-term incumbent now faces a three-way general election contest.

"The governor believes that one of the problems in our political system is the influence of extremists on both sides of the aisle," said Cuomo spokesman Matthew Wing, according to the Associated Press. "He is endorsing Senator Saland because he has consistently had the courage to do what was right despite political challenges, especially when it came to voting for marriage equality."
https://www.advocate.com/politics/election/2012/10/19/cuomo-backs-republican-who-voted-marriage-equality

Saland had a Republican primary challenge from Neil Di Carlo, which Saland won by a margin of 107 votes. Di Carlo continued his campaign as the candidate of the Conservative Party, and Saland lost the general election to Democrat Terry Gipson by a margin of 2,096 votes. Di Carlo acted as a spoiler, receiving 17,300 votes on the Conservative line. Democratic Governor Cuomo also offered his enforcement to Roy McDonald for an Independent run after McDonald lost his Republican Party primary battle by a narrow margin:

NY Republican Won't Run Despite Cuomo Endorsement

"Governor Andrew Cuomo even offered to back Sen. Roy McDonald if he chose to continue as a third-party candidate, and a poll released by marriage equality advocates indicated the effort could be successful."

"New York State Senator Roy McDonald will not try making a third-party run after losing his Republican primary, at least in part because of his vote for marriage equality in the state. The two-term incumbent announced the decision today after losing his primary by about 100 votes, or less than 1% of the vote, in the low turnout contest on September 13."
https://www.advocate.com/politics/election/2012/09/27/cuomo-offers-endorsement-new-york-republican-defeated-primary?pg=full

Republican State Senator Grisanti won his Republican primary in 2012, defeating attorney Kevin Stocker by 59% to 40%. He then went on to secure victory in the General Election, defeating both his Democratic and Conservative Party opponents seemingly without need of a Cuomo endorsement. On May 9, 2012, Senator Alesi announced that he would not run for re-election. He stated that many factors, including the welfare of the Republican Party, led to his decision. But the story does not end there. Subsequent developments in the careers of these four Republican politicians bear noting.

"In 2013, Gov. Andrew Cuomo appointed Alesi to a $90,000-per-year post[78] on the Unemployment Insurance Appeal Board.[79]

In 2015, Gov. Cuomo appointed Grisanti to the New York State Court of Claims. Grisanti's appointment was confirmed by the New York State Senate in May 2015.[80] The reported salary for the judgeship was $174,000.[81]

In 2016, Gov. Cuomo appointed Saland to the board of the state Thruway Authority.[82]

In June 2017, Gov. Cuomo nominated Alesi to a $109,800-per-year[83] position on the state's Public Service Commission; the Senate confirmed his appointment"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_Equality_Act_(New_York).

The only one of the four Republican state senators who voted for the Marriage Equality Act of 2011 who did not receive a subsequent appointment from Governor Cuomo was Roy McDonald, who not only declined Governor Cuomo's offer of an endorsement, but endorsed the conservative who defeated him in the Republican primary instead. There are some who may consider this political backstory to the passage of the 2011 Marriage Equality Act to be sordid, and I may well be among those. I know that the aspect of a Democratic Governor supporting incumbent Republican candidates over more progressive Democratic challengers was controversial in many progressive circles at the time. Cuomo's subsequent political appointments to Republicans who backed the passage of marriage equality legislation flew a little bit more under the radar.

I am so called "saying right out loud" here something that normally should not be so openly discussed mostly because I know I can. I am an obscure blogger with no formal ties to either elected Democrats or Democratic candidates for office. But maybe, just maybe, this will catch the eye of some people with insider credentials greater than mine. If it does, I hope someone is, behind closed doors, feeling out what type of support it would take from key Democrats to get the needed handful of Republican members of Republican majority State Legislatures to break with their political party to support honoring the will of the people of their states. There is nothing radical about counting all the ballots and letting the people choose who become that State's presidential electors, not unless Democracy itself is deemed too radical.

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A political tactic once used by NY Governor Cuomo could save our Democracy in a worst case scenario (Original Post) Tom Rinaldo Sep 2020 OP
That tactic won't save our democracy. SharonClark Sep 2020 #1
There is often greater diversity among state legislators Tom Rinaldo Sep 2020 #2
risk, reward.. stillcool Sep 2020 #3
Yes, exactly. Tom Rinaldo Sep 2020 #4
Threat of mass boycotts of the state are imo a better tactic. radius777 Sep 2020 #5
I love this idea. Tom Rinaldo Sep 2020 #6
We could also have big business guys like Bloomberg, radius777 Sep 2020 #7
May I suggest that you sponsor a petition request for Move On about this? Tom Rinaldo Sep 2020 #8

SharonClark

(10,005 posts)
1. That tactic won't save our democracy.
Thu Sep 24, 2020, 12:32 PM
Sep 2020

1. Cuomo was wrong to cut that deal.
2. Dems cannot trust republican Senators who are proven liars and hypocrites.
3. The only deal republican Senators will make is with trump.

Tom Rinaldo

(22,911 posts)
2. There is often greater diversity among state legislators
Thu Sep 24, 2020, 12:39 PM
Sep 2020

Some are horribly corrupt, others more connected in many ways to regular people in their communities. Their range of motivations for seeking office in the first place is not always as power-centric as it is for those who seek to rise through the ranks to the national level.

stillcool

(32,626 posts)
3. risk, reward..
Thu Sep 24, 2020, 12:44 PM
Sep 2020

was the passage of the Marriage Equality Act worth it, or not? Perhaps they should have waited for a Democratic controlled New York Senate? Guess it's about where your priorities lie, and letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.

Tom Rinaldo

(22,911 posts)
4. Yes, exactly.
Thu Sep 24, 2020, 12:52 PM
Sep 2020

When I think about this, which to be honest I am not comfortable doing as it cuts sharply against my grain, I translate that question into what is the risk to our nation if everything possible is not done to prevent Trump from stealing this election and perhaps permanently damaging our Democracy in the process? And on the other side of the equation, what is the reward to our people of having Biden and Harris leading our way out of the darkness that has descended on us? I usually am a "the ends do not justify the means" guy, but I know that deals of dubious morality get cut in politics repeatedly. It is built into the "sausage making" aspect of getting things done even under normal circumstances. These are not normal circumstances, and I am not reacting to them the way that I normally might have.

radius777

(3,624 posts)
5. Threat of mass boycotts of the state are imo a better tactic.
Thu Sep 24, 2020, 01:02 PM
Sep 2020

I was thinking about this. From now we should simply threaten to organize mass boycotts of any state (including any major industries and products) that would seek to undermine the will of the voters of that state. No party or politician wants to be blamed for their state and local economies being bankrupted - which is what we can easily do to them with 70+ million angry Democrats.

Tom Rinaldo

(22,911 posts)
6. I love this idea.
Thu Sep 24, 2020, 01:11 PM
Sep 2020

Even though it would hurt some innocent people, there really aren't perfect options when faced with something as monumental as the subversion of our Democracy that has taken 240+ years to become as responsive to the will of the people as we have so far progressed to.

This idea only works the way nuclear weapons supposedly work, as a deterrent. If the election were to be successfully stolen it would amount to retribution, but would not unwind the damage. So this approach has to be talked of far and wide NOW, before the fact.

What you suggest is an open public tactic, which is always my preference. If it worked it would likely negate any need for what I wrote of. But they are not mutually exclusive options.

radius777

(3,624 posts)
7. We could also have big business guys like Bloomberg,
Thu Sep 24, 2020, 01:18 PM
Sep 2020

Steyer, Gates and others - who have big connections - form a group that will threaten retribution to the state.

As you said, it works like an economic nuclear missile aimed at them should they fuck with us.

Tom Rinaldo

(22,911 posts)
8. May I suggest that you sponsor a petition request for Move On about this?
Thu Sep 24, 2020, 04:12 PM
Sep 2020

The petition could state that its signers pledge to boycott travel to and business with any entities located inside a State that does not count all of the 2020 ballots cast consistent with State election law qualifying provisions and instead substitutes the will of a State Legislature over the will of the people in choosing that State's presidential electors.

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