Why we need to be careful how we frame the tax story...

[regnaD kciN]

I posted a version of this as a reply to an older thread, but I think its something we need to think about:

The fact is that most Americans, and probably all Americans who might even consider voting for Trump, absolutely hate taxes. If they could get away with paying as little as Trump, they would. In fact, I'd hazard a guess that, even if most Americans don't explicitly cheat on their taxes, they probably play a little fast-and-loose on claiming deductions, and are not quite sure about whether they might not have made an "innocent" error in their own favor. They probably worry about the eeeeeeeeeeeeevil IRS auditing them, and finding something they thought was innocuous over which those eeeeeeeeeeeeevil bureaucrats would delight in sending them to prison.

Even the word "tax," in and of itself, creates negative feelings for most voters. My guess is that the response of many to this story might be "I can understand why he did all he could to keep from being soaked by the I.R.S.! I and my family are being taxed to death...and that's all because of those liberal tax-and-spend Democrats. We need to vote Republican to reduce our own tax burden, and protect ourselves from big Democrat government."

Instead of playing "but his taxes!!!" -- as tempting as it might be -- it might be wiser to frame it as revealing that 45 is a pathetic, corrupt fraud who has been presenting himself as some great success when, in fact, he's always been a complete failure whose only talent lay in fooling people.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. The taxes aren't as big a story as the level of his indebtedness, IMO.

The brilliant businessman actually sucked at business and has ended up owing millions of dollars which he has personally guaranteed. Technically he's insolvent.

[regnaD kciN]

4. Which, once again, gets back to his fraud...

It isn't just his indebtedness; most likely, lots of his on-the-edge supporters are people with large amounts of credit-card debt who are scared to death they'll never be able to pay it off. Crowing about his debts, in and of themselves, would lead these people to conclude that we're a bunch of well-off elitists who look down at people like them who struggle to make the minimum payment on their multiple Visas or Mastercards. Rather, we need to try to get them to feel outrage that he got in a worse hole than they've ever been in, and was able to skate on it in ways they never would be able to do.

[Baclava]

2. "FAKE NEWS!" His adoring cult is already laughing it all off, they wont believe a thing being said

[Quixote1818]

3. The Dan Rather quote someone posted is the perfect way to frame it

Dan Rather
@DanRather
·
4h
It appears that the real definition of “hoax” is the “business mogul” America saw on The Apprentice.

[Midnight Writer]

5. I have noticed Right Wing media, especially radio, is sponsored by Tax Forgiveness Legal Firms.

Like Trump, conservatives want the stuff, they just don't want to pay for it. They think things like Defense, Social Security, Roads, Schools are just there., their birthright. They refuse to acknowledge that it has to be paid for.

[regnaD kciN]

6. Another poster here just put it really well...

The most damning part for his followers will be Trump not being who he said he is: not superior

[rufus dog]

7. Let me ponder this - no "WE" don't have to be careful

"WE" don't owe them JACK SHIT!

We don't need to understand why they won't work with Dems

We don't need do talk to them about why they are OK with kids in cages.

We don't need to be careful on why they sat silent while their choice to run the free world sucked up to Putin.

We don't need to understand why they are OK with the justify their constant hypocrisy.

What we need to do is shove their ignorance down their throats, we need to make them choke on their fake Christianity, we need to shove their racism so far up their asses that they have hemorrhoids until the day they die.

Then THEY need to apologize, then THEY need to kiss our ass, then THEY need to apologize again.

FFS, you wonder why they think Dems are snowflakes, what the FUCK have they every tried to understand? They keep pushing the envelope yet you say WE need to do something. FUCK THAT!

[BannonsLiver]

11. +100000

I can’t believe people actually write this stuff. It’s so silly.

[malaise]

18. +1,000

Thank you

[meadowlander]

8. I think this is a teachable moment though.

Your income taxes actually pay for things like the cops and military that the right is constantly fetishising. Refusing to pay your fair share *is* an issue and so is income inequality. Having so many loopholes that an average teacher is paying ten times as much in taxes as Trump (a supposed billionaire) is, is an issue that people can get their heads around even if they occasionally grumble every year as they send in their returns.

They are paying more in taxes because people like Trump aren't paying their fair share. If this isn't a good chance to wake them up to that fact, I don't know what is.

[Boogiemack]

9. How does his evangelical base square tax avoidance with their jesus?

Jesus paid taxes. He even performed a miracle to pay his taxes.

[BannonsLiver]

10. Nah, that's an incredibly silly point

The takeaway is Trump doesn’t pay taxes, while you do. No need to overthink it. Thankfully the Biden campaign won’t.

[pattyloutwo]

12. I disagree

He’s a lying, cheating swindler no matter how you slice it, dice it or frame it.

[Mister Ed]

13. Yes, I think exposing him as a business failure scores the most points politically. n/t

[radius777]

14. Very good point.

True, most people have a bad sense of how the economy works which is why Trump still has good ratings on the economy. He pumps up the stock market and people think 'good stock market = good for everyone' which is simply not true. He also played a 'great businessman' on TV for years and that image is stuck in many people's heads.

So the tax story could be viewed by some as 'smart businessman who keeps more of his money'. In 2016 I heard this several times and I live in a blue area. Sadly many regular people just don't get how the game works and how wealth is redistributed upward.

OTOH, framing it as 'corrupt conman' and 'failed businessman' reinforces Biden's message of 'failed president' who simply is not capable of the job required of him.

[blm]

15. Trump refuses to fund police & fire departments, military, hospitals,

schools, roads, ......

[Le Roi de Pot]

16. Most Americans .. Don't itemize deductions

They don't make enough to do that.

[Wounded Bear]

17. $400 million in leverage over Trump...

I'm more curious about that than the taxes paid or unpaid.

Who does he owe and what has he done because of that?

[frazzled]

19. The story isn't over yet

Remember, the NYT said this is only the first in a series.

So here’s the deal: sure, some people might think, “why shouldn’t he take advantage of loopholes to pay less; I’d like to do that.” But you can only use loopholes if what you are reporting to the IRS is true.

A legal analyst explained it last night: If, as we suspect, and as his former lawyer has stated in writing, that Trump would inflate his assets to obtain bank loans and then turn around and inflate his losses in that same year to the IRS to avoid taxes, one of those sets of numbers is wrong. If the Times can compare the two (Deutsche Bank documents anyone?) and they don’t match up, then Trump has either committed bank fraud or tax fraud. That is to say, he is a criminal, one way or another.

Now, the people still clinging to support him will not care if he’s a criminal and will still vote for him. We’re not thinking about ever convincing them to change their minds. But to know this man is an out and out CROOK may give that ooky feeling to some wavering Independents. More important, it may put some fear in the hearts of a few senators, who will feel a bit weak kneed about abetting a known criminal.

So let’s wait and see what’s next.

[ecstatic]

20. The framing is simple: it's not fair!

I pay more than $750 in a month's time.

tRump and the GOP took away my ability to claim many of the deductions I've claimed in the past.

A lot of people were screwed by the GOP tax scam. Meanwhile, corporations and outright crooks like tRump never needed the IRS bailout.