Is the unfolding trump collapse a tragedy in the Shakespearean/Aristotelian sense...

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in that a high-profile central protagonist has a tragic flaw, a human frailty of moral weakness—aside from that the central figure is basically a good person?

Hahahahahahaha!

Hell no.

It's becoming apparent that the trump saga is really a tragic-comic one, as there are comic elements for sure, but it's not quite about a flawed psychopath who manipulates every one around him just for fun, just because he has nothing better to do (like presidenting), it's about a bumbling, inept liar who has no redeeming, human qualities and has been an evil bastard from the jump, molded that way by his racist father, and has never been held accountable though out life and is now the president who winnows the characters around him down to willing sycophants—they cling to him for their own reasons - paycheck, no other prospects because they stayed too long, their own 15 minutes, whatever—who he will also cast aside if they no longer participate in the manipulative mirage of his competence and cognitive fitness, and most importantly, assist in keeping him in office and out of jail, which more and more looks like his final denouement.

That is coming, what with the avalanche of relevatory books, investigative news reports, prominent Republican desertions, flagging fundraising and falling poll numbers.

October will be juicy and the usual surprises will be surprising in that they will come from both sides and will not save him.

I have to get more popcorn.

[Initech]

1. I've been comparing it to the Norse mythology of Surtur.

And Trump is Surtur. He's just an empty skull. And if he's given a second term, he will turn into a giant flaming monster that will destroy America, probably for good. And maybe that's their plan.

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4. My fingers are constantly crossed that Joe Biden is our Odin.

Last edited Mon Sep 28, 2020, 11:38 AM - Edit history (1)

[Initech]

9. Though as Ragnarok showed, even Odin had a dark side.

Maybe Joe is our Thor? Which would make Trump our Hela?

[Cirque du So-What]

2. That has occurred to me

I hope some talented playwright will take on the task of writing a play for the ages - one that will endure timelessly, serving as a cautionary tale and a burr under the saddle for future generations of conservatroids.

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6. I wonder who would want to play the mfer? Jon Voight, James Woods maybe...

or Scott Baio hoping to revive his career?

[Cirque du So-What]

7. Dennis Quaid?

I wonder if he’s having second thoughts about making those wretched ads?

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13. Oh, yes. I forgot about him. I'm disappointed as I didn't know he was a winger.

[Backseat Driver]

21. Comedy or tragedy, could we add a few more modern specialty characters?

The "intelligence officers": to our analogous iconic tale, i.e., a Clarisse Starling-like; a Will Graham-like, a Jack Crawford-like...

And a question, will we add or even recognize an additional iconic historical author/playwright and who might it be?

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25. I have no idea who the playwright would be but who in or around the admin would be...

Starling, Crawford and Graham?

[dalton99a]

3. His fall will be as SPECTACULAR and TERRIFIC as his rise.

leaving behind a TREMENDOUS American carnage the likes of which we have never seen before

[malaise]

8. THIS

and he will whine like a five year old and complain as he is getting back everything he dosed out to others.

I've been living for this moment

[dalton99a]

10. "I am being treated VERY badly. Very UNFAIR. That I can tell you"

[malaise]

11. because his own tax returns are now

FAKE

[Buckeyeblue]

5. No. He was never a hero. For it to be a true tragedy, he must have been a hero.

[Ursus Rex]

12. He 100% has the hubris, though.

But, yeah, in classical terms, tragedy is about the fall of a once-great character. It begins with order and ends in chaos, is what they taught us in grad school.

This could be comedy, in strict dramatic terms: begins with order, descends into chaos, order is restored at the end, though some characters may have changed in the meanwhile. Comedy wasn't always funny in the ancient world.

[Buckeyeblue]

14. Exactly. This could be a comic tragedy. That's the way the movie version of this will go.

[Tom Traubert]

16. Hardly a tragedy.

That would require a heroic protagonist. Trump doesn’t qualify and never has.

[Buckeyeblue]

18. A comic tragedy doesn't. Just s tragedy does.

[ChazInAz]

19. One play comes close.

"MacBeth", though in the opening, the murderous Scot is spoken of as a great warrior. That description is proven wrong by the end when we see that he's merely a murderous thug.
That's a fair comparison to our Gangster In Chief.

[NewJeffCT]

24. If I recall my studies of Greek tragedies

doesn't the fallen hero at least get some partial redemption in the end? I can't really see that for Trump.

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26. I certainly don't want tnat for trump, but as another poster put it, it's not...

a tragedy in the classic sense since trump has never, ever, ever, ever been a hero.

[vlyons]

15. For me, it's Belshazzar's feast

Do you know this story from the Bible -Chap 5 in the Book of Daniel. Belshazzar was the king and son of Nebuchadnezzear, who had defeated Israel and destroyed the Temple in Jerusalem. Belshazzar held a feast for his court of nobles and called for the gold plate, cups, and platters stolen from the Jerusalem temple to be brought out, so they could dine off them. Belshazzar thought is was funny to show off the wealth that his father had stolen. When out of nowhere, a hand appears and writes on the wall "MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN". Well the king and his court are mystified and filled with fear.

Belshazzar asks, "Who knows what the writing means?" Someone says, "There's old Daniel. He can probably interpret it." They bring old Daniel, who says: "MENE, God has numbered the days of your kingdom and brought it to an end; TEKEL, you have been weighed ... and found wanting;" and "PERES, your kingdom is divided and given to the Medes and Persians."

And so Donnie Dimwit: You have been weighed and measured (like a gold coin) and found wanting. The days of your kingdom are coming to an end.

Here's Rembrandt's painting of Belshazzar's Feast in the London National Gallery for your enjoyment.

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20. Lovely, lovely. Thanks for sharing. Such wisdom one gets from DU.

"Belshazzar thought it was funny to show off the wealth that his father had stolen."

That is so apt since trump lived off the wealth of his father, for a while at least until he blew it.

And:

"MENE, God has numbered the days of your kingdom and brought it to an end; TEKEL, you have been weighed ... and found wanting..."

Whoa! That is so on point. trump has been found wanting all right.

[Laelth]

17. By definition, it's a comedy.

In classical (and even Renaissance) drama, the question is “How does the play end?” If the play has a happy ending, it’s a comedy. If it has a sad or tragic ending, it’s a tragedy.

The story of Trump’s ultimate demise, then, will be considered a comedy by most sane reviewers.

-Laelth

[Fozzledick]

22. My understanding is that comedy ends in marriage and tragedy ends in death.

What does that say about life? (And marriage?)

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27. Fingers crossed then that it's a comdey.

[Fozzledick]

23. It's a joke in the tradition of "The Aristocrats!"

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28. That fits. The whole admin is a joke that never should've been allowed anywhere near the WH.