Why can't atheists get any leverage ?

[surfdog]

It seems to me that every other group in this nation gets pandered to , except atheists.

Bush sr. was asked about the "atheist vote" while he was campaigning and responded with "I don't consider atheists to be patriots is US citizens"

The entire GOP remained silent , and so did the Democrats. I saw it as the perfect time to grab the atheist vote , but it was non-story.

Why are atheists ignored by both parties ?

[yellerpup]

1. Because we don't vote as a bloc. n/t

[LAGC]

40. The hell we don't!

71% of non-religious whites voted for Democratic candidate Barack Obama while 74% of white Evangelical Christians voted for Republican candidate John McCain. This can be compared with the 43%-55% share of white votes overall.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreligion_in_the_United_States#Irreligion_in_politics

The only demographic that voted for Obama more heavily in 2008 are African-Americans as a whole.

[yellerpup]

46. Those are exciting figures.

And the results say that we atheists vote wisely. I don't think I ever heard predictions on those percentages before the vote though. I think what I was going for in my original post is that atheists are not 'organized' to vote with one voice (as say, evangelical voters) by a leader. But, that is very cool news (to me). Thanks for bringing me up to date.

[no_hypocrisy]

2. Because atheists are radioactive in a country housed in the myth of it being

founded in Judeo-Christian principles. Kinda makes us "the other" in their world.

[randome]

3. Because atheists, by definition, aren't trying to buy or sell anything.

[Puzzledtraveller]

4. Self identifying atheists

perhaps opposed to those who don't identify and are just non-religious? I know people from both sets, those that say they are atheists and those that don't but are non-religious and they vary politically to some degree. Conservative vs. Liberal, Demorcat vs Republican, there can by any number of reasons why someone may align with one over another with the fact they are atheist being the only thing about them. IMO.

[quinnox]

5. Not enough of them around to care about

It's like asking why aren't "Hollow Earthers" catered to. Not enough votes to target such a small population.

[msongs]

7. well there werent that many nader voters in 2000 but people on DU care about that alot nt

[Fumesucker]

8. Roughly the same number of atheists/agnostics as Jews..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States#Religions_of_American_adults

[justiceischeap]

11. According to some reports, there are only 4 million LGBT folks in the USA

and 3.5 million atheist/agnostics and 2.6 million Jews yet they pander to both the LGBT crowd and Jews.

[surfdog]

12. Great point

[leftynyc]

15. There are reasons for that

Jews (as a group) always VOTE. Any group that consistenty votes will get pandered to.

[Logical]

32. More atheists than jewish people in the USA!

[immoderate]

6. Because they don't believe in god...

They demonstrate to people that their core principles are irrelevant, and they resent it. theists know, on a reptilian level, that they cannot be wrong. And when they see atheists are not smitten by the Lord, it stresses their reality.

Most atheists are liberals, except the Libertarian types. Those votes are pretty much locked in.

Note that Obama, who I will hold my nose and vote for, (probably) is the first pres to cite non religious in his speeches. But he is a fundy (or plays one on TV.)


--imm

[qazplm]

25. I agree with you in somewhat less harsh terms

Everyone fears death, whether they admit it or not, at least a little bit. But one of the ways people get around that fear is the belief that something waits for them on the other side. Atheists say, no, nothing waits for you, you die, that's it.

I'm agnostic but the idea of nothingness isn't exactly a pleasant one for me either, even though I suspect that's the answer for most of us sooner, and at some point if we are technically advanced enough, the rest of us later (even if you lived for 1 million years it wouldn't approach the age of the universe and heat death means sooner or later everything in the entire universe dies).

So, I can understand why at a base level, someone would not exactly find atheism an appealing ideology and not much like those who practice it because it directly strikes at a fundamental, human conceit/fear.

[immoderate]

26. LOL! You would love the stuff I edit out.

Yup! That's right! I edit my posts!


--imm

[Moostache]

39. FALSE, FALSE, FALSE!!!

I object strongly to the oft repeated sentiment that atheists "believe" or have anything to "say" about a specific religion or that they make any blanket statements about what happens after physical death. I see no compelling argument that would make me accept the assertion of any omniscient, omnipresent, benevolent deity figure. Atheism is non-belief; NOT a belief or statement about ANYTHING else, including specific religions!

Atheism is a default position of simply saying there is no physical or real evidence to support the claims of all religions - be they Jew, Hindu, Christian, or Greek, Roman, Pagan, etc. Atheism is a rejection of the positive claims of others that simply goes ONE GOD further than EVERYONE ELSE!

If you claim to be Christian, then by default you are atheist to all other known or previous religions (just as the priests of the temple of Apollo or Zeus or Athena were not dedicated to the other gods of the Greek pantheon)...and if reincarnation is real, you reject all future ones too! You do not worship Thor or Zeus or Isis any more than those ancient Norsemen, Greeks or Egyptians worshiped a cosmic Jewish carpenter-zombie!

When people self-identify as "Christians" (or any other religious label you wish to wear) they are applying an identifying in-group label to themselves - but they exclude all others as out-group (and in most cases inherently less valuable lives).

When people self-identify as "atheist" they are rejecting ALL labels from ALL religions - including the Jesus cult or Mohammedanism, or the Jews, or the Hindus, or anyone else from the thousands of religions that the mind of man has sprung forth since the dawn of communication (and in most cases I know personally, they do not care what you want to convince yourself of or what fables you wish to prefer or who you wish to convince yourself is "watching out for you", as long as you leave them out of it and have the decency to keep it to your own privacy).

[greyl]

43. An afterlife would not be evidence that a God or gods exist.

Atheism doesn't really say anything about whether or not there is an afterlife, and a God existing says just as much.

[fifthoffive]

9. Because the only thing that defines

an atheist is that he/she does not believe in any gods. I met an atheist once who was strongly anti-abortion.

Atheists are not single-issue voters, unlike many Christian conservatives.

If you think herding Democrats is difficult, try herding atheists. We don't corral easily except on issues of church and state which no politician will touch with a ten-foot pole.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

35. True

I know plenty of atheists who are right-wingers and libertarians. I even know one who rejects the idea of giving to the poor and needy as basically "Christian guilt trip bullshit".

[maggiesfarmer]

14. THIS^^^^

[UTUSN]

13. R#3 & K. Lots of good answers in the thread. Mine, that lots are de facto

I'm saying that there are likely to be way more atheists who don't label themselves, who just live their lives, whose de facto practices are just done without "activism."

[LanternWaste]

16. I would imagine that if a big-money PAC were set up...

I would imagine that if a big-money PAC were set up, interest, votes and influence would go up also.

[superpatriotman]

17. Atheists need some image management

and re-branding.

A good PR firm could handle that.

[eShirl]

18. I dunno; ask the pagans how they do it.

ba-doom cha!

[The Straight Story]

19. Well...what exactly is it atheists as a group want in this regards?

We can't ask people what religion (or philosophy) they are when hiring, when getting rentals, etc and so on.

You generally can't have school led religious functions, even if the entire school were all of some faith, so atheists don't have to put up with the rest of a community's ideals/traditions in a public place.

They can start their own orgs/churchs, buy bill boards, etc and so on.

So what leverage do they want and what do they want to accomplish with it?

Got no problem with people being atheist/theist/etc, just trying to understand the problems here.

[99Forever]

22. Hmmmmm.... welll.... how about..

.. some HUGE fancy buildings in high dollar areas to party in tax free?

Jes sayin'

[The Straight Story]

23. Done!

As soon as enough folks chip in to buy one, register it as a super pac, and buy the beer.

Invite me over

[greyl]

44. A genuine separation of Church and State would be nice. nt

[PVnRT]

49. Bacon and cocaine

[PassingFair]

50. Church/State separation is a CONSTANT battle, not a fait accompli.

Most atheists are "progressives".

[opihimoimoi]

20. No Shit.....What about us Heathens, Agnostics, Pagans, Buddahists, etc....where we go to caucus?

&feature=fvwrel

[Douglas Carpenter]

21. because you don't believe in God

[Solly Mack]

24. I don't want to be pandered to by politicians.

Or anyone else for that matter.

[surfdog]

27. Why not?

If they pander to you it means you have influence and leverage

[Solly Mack]

28. If they kiss my ass it would mean the same thing.

But I don't need my ass kissed either.

Some politicians pander to the religious right and to do so they have to appeal to some truly base and bigoted thinking. Downright obsequious in many cases.

What I need are politicians that work for the common good of America, where ALL Americans are respected and their needs considered. Where there is no room for pandering to the lowest common denominator because appeals to prejudice are considered insulting. (wishful thinking, I know)

That doesn't take pandering - that just takes the recognition that things like discrimination are very bad for America.

A politician acknowledging that some Americans are atheists and that they are often subject to the whims (such as Bush's statement) of bigots isn't pandering - merely acknowledging a fact.

It could very well be that you're using the word pander to mean something other than how I think of the word. I hear 'pander' and I think of politicians saying anything and everything just to get a vote or money.

Give me actions - positive action that demonstrates a commitment to addressing (and working to correct) things like discrimination. Don't pander to me by telling me what you think I want to hear. I find that insulting.

I shouldn't have to have power or leverage or influence to have a voice or place in my government. To be seen as a citizen worthy of full rights.

[Union Scribe]

29. Because they're non-stamp collectors

What exactly is a politician supposed to address? They share one belief (if you must, a non-belief) but not necessarily other politically graspable traits. I've met many libertarian Rand-type atheists and a few RW atheists, though most probably reside on the left, where they are going to vote regardless of any "pandering." These are people supposedly not defined by religious persuasion, so I see no reason to "pander" to them as though they were.

[dawg]

30. They think it would lose them more votes than it would gain them.

If 5-10% of the country is made up of athiests, what % of the country is made up of closed-minded theists who would react negatively to a candidate just for reaching out to the athiest community? 15%? 20%? I'm thinking it would be more than 10% of voters, even in Democratic primaries.

The candidates perceive, probably correctly, that there is more to be lost than there is to be gained.

[Bruce Wayne]

31. Here's a hint

Ha-ha, just kidding, old chum. That's really the hand of my pal, InvisibleGiantMan.

[yortsed snacilbuper]

33. We need millions of Atheist's to show up for the Reason Rally in D.C.!

The Reason Rally is an event sponsored by many of the country’s largest and most influential secular organizations. It will be free to attend and will take place in Washington, D.C. on March 24th, 2012 from 10:00AM – 4:00PM at the National Mall. There will be music, comedy, speakers, and so much more. We hope you can join us! Please poke around this site for more information, stay tuned for frequent updates, and let us know if you have any questions!

http://reasonrally.org/

[scheming daemons]

34. Because we atheists are not monolithic. By definition, we think for ourselves... we don't have

"leaders" who think for us.

[ScreamingMeemie]

37. What about those of us who don't care enough about religion or the lack there of?

Oh...wait a minute. We don't care enough to be offended about not being pandered to.

[cherokeeprogressive]

38. You want influence and leverage? You (as a bloc) better pony up some cash.

Lots of it.

Until then? Meh... You're just people who don't believe in anything.

[JCMach1]

41. because atheism is not an ideological monolith

and would never organize as a political bloc

[JI7]

42. i'm an Atheist and i don't care to hear politicians talk about how patriotic and great atheists are

it's what i am. there are things i care about like seperation of church and state but these are things even those who believe in religion and other things care about also.

[JFN1]

45. "Athiests don't believe in anything..."

Man, do I get tired of hearing this assertion, that if a person is not religious, they are somehow defective, shallow, hollow, missing something vital, worthy of pity, ultimately incapable of believing in anything, thus unable to make any kind of meaningful contribuion, which overall, makes an athiest worth much less, than a believer.

Bull. Shit.

I would submit athiests actually believe in many more things than do religious types. A mind opened to realistic possibility becomes flexibile, able to believe and accept what IS, rather than merely attempting to believe what is comfortable...

Fearful delusion robs the mind of creatve capacity, limits growth, and calcifies thinking. There is a frenetic desperation around the edges of the true believer, which seems to be absent in the athiest.

Also, the fear of death is measurably lessened for the athiest, in my opinion.

I forget who said it, but one of my favorite quotes concerning death goes: "I was content before I was born, I will be content after I die. What in this is there to fear?"

And I find myself fascinated by the last words (reported by his sister) one of humanity's towering geniuses, Steve Jobs, spoke as he died: "Oh wow. Oh wow. Oh wow."

[TroglodyteScholar]

48. You make an excellent point.

The one I've heard a lot (moreso when I lived in the deep south) is "you can't hold any meaningful values without believing in God (or the Bible)." The people making this point (for lack of a better word) rarely have any actual education in religion nor ethics.

[lunatica]

47. Because, hopefully, atheists don't have an agenda

to push their beliefs on everyone else. I don't care that you're an atheist any more than I care if you're a Christian. Just leave me alone to have my beliefs without trying to stuff yours down my throat.

But if you want more atheists in government then run for office.