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ChoppinBroccoli

(3,781 posts)
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 02:33 PM Nov 2020

Anyone Consider Russian Hacking?

We know they did it in 2016, and we know Trump welcomed their help. We know McConnell and his cohorts did nothing to stop it from happening this year. So the question I've been wondering for a couple of days now (and that I haven't seen anyone discuss on this forum yet) is why we're not talking about THAT as a possible reason for how close this election was. Maybe it's not all the "doom and gloom" explanations we've been hearing lately (i.e. "our message just doesn't resonate," or, "America is more racist than we expected," or whatever), but it's actually outside interference making it LOOK that way.

I know we were all a little disappointed in how close it was, and are wondering how the polls could be so off, but what if the polls WEREN'T off at all, and it was the Russian hacking that made it LOOK close? The experts have been saying all along that we can overwhelm the Russian hacking efforts if we vote in big enough numbers. Isn't it possible that the Russians DID hack this election, but we just voted in overwhelming enough numbers to overcome their interference? Couldn't THAT possibly be the reason for losing Florida and Ohio and Texas and Iowa and some other States that most people expected Biden to be extremely competitive in? And why his margins of victory in some of these States that looked pretty safe all along were smaller than expected?

As I said, for as much of a worry as Russian hacking has been for the last 4 years, I'm surprised nobody has been talking about the possibility that they actually DID hack the vote again this year, but the Biden vote was just too big for them to overcome. Especially since we KNOW they were going to try to do it again AND were getting help from the Republicans, who refused to do anything to stop them.

37 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Anyone Consider Russian Hacking? (Original Post) ChoppinBroccoli Nov 2020 OP
No. LisaL Nov 2020 #1
So Your Contention Is That The Russians Just Sat This One Out? ChoppinBroccoli Nov 2020 #5
our intelligence agencies stopdiggin Nov 2020 #31
Yes renate Nov 2020 #2
Florida. n/t rzemanfl Nov 2020 #3
always so it seems flamingdem Nov 2020 #19
I have wondered about it. Honest_Abe Nov 2020 #4
I think it's a possibility. yardwork Nov 2020 #6
Perhaps why polling was "off" SheltieLover Nov 2020 #7
Yes, compare more states Ruby Zee Nov 2020 #9
Me too SheltieLover Nov 2020 #17
they messed around in voter roll information in 2016. how hard would it be to wiggs Nov 2020 #8
Yes, I've considered this TrishaJ Nov 2020 #10
I think it's at least worth investigating Blue Owl Nov 2020 #11
Some math sleuths will look into it like before. Find anomalies and be ignored. Captain Zero Nov 2020 #32
I think we need to assume it.... Chakaconcarne Nov 2020 #12
You're not the only one wondering. crickets Nov 2020 #13
Yes this. They had to estimate how many to switch to overcome mail in and it was too much Captain Zero Nov 2020 #35
Why, yes I have MagickMuffin Nov 2020 #14
Especially Florida and probably Texas with the dishonest Republicans running the state LizBeth Nov 2020 #15
except that the Russians stopdiggin Nov 2020 #33
Yes, I did think of that, too. LaMouffette Nov 2020 #16
I do. Watch "Kill Chain" to see why. movingviolation Nov 2020 #18
Doesn't explain the lawsuits or the unhinged nature of the Trump campaign BannonsLiver Nov 2020 #20
I think it's possible there was hacking. phylny Nov 2020 #27
Absolutely, ES&S machines used in Miami-Dade JCMach1 Nov 2020 #21
This needs fixing, pronto!!! movingviolation Nov 2020 #22
Yup - a mix of Putin propaganda, flipping some vote counts, DeJoik, and old-fashioned suppression... lagomorph777 Nov 2020 #23
I've considered it. We need to trash polling based strategies. Baked Potato Nov 2020 #24
Yes, I think they did Catherine Vincent Nov 2020 #25
I have definitely considered it. lobointexas Nov 2020 #26
👆 Important post. Thanks for the link, lobo. crickets Nov 2020 #37
I think it needs to be looked into by a DoJ that isn't controlled by Putin's pigeon... JHB Nov 2020 #28
Yes. nt tblue37 Nov 2020 #29
Ivanka owns voting machines who needs the Russians? #insidejob nt live love laugh Nov 2020 #30
They were simply overwhelmed by our turnout and our paper ballots. nt Boogiemack Nov 2020 #34
they're hacking something... stillcool Nov 2020 #36

ChoppinBroccoli

(3,781 posts)
5. So Your Contention Is That The Russians Just Sat This One Out?
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 02:36 PM
Nov 2020

Despite heavy involvement in 2016 AND the fact that all our intelligence agencies said they were going to try to do it again AND the fact that Republicans rejected every election security bill that came down the pike?

stopdiggin

(11,242 posts)
31. our intelligence agencies
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 03:19 PM
Nov 2020

also said (repeatedly) that there was no evidence of altered votes. Now if you want to take up the story of what they did, unequivocally, do -- disinformation, destabilization, polarization -- as well as coordination (data, information and leaks) with one of the campaigns ... I think that the intelligence people have already announced that, yes, efforts to influence the electorate (and the election) were in play for this cycle too. No big surprise.

The difference is, a lot of the tinfoil hats insist on a scenario where some Boris is sneaking into some voting machine somewhere -- and flipping D votes to Rs. What the rest of us are trying to tell them is -- they probably aren't, and furthermore they don't really HAVE to!

And incidentally -- you couldn't have scripted an outcome more to Putin's taste (or agenda) -- that what you see rolling out before you today. And all delivered to him by the American voter.
----- -----

yardwork

(61,538 posts)
6. I think it's a possibility.
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 02:37 PM
Nov 2020

Numerous investigations - including Mueller's - found that Russians may have hacked into vote tabulating machines in 2016.

It seems it would be pretty simple to program a vote tabulating machine to flip every 5 votes from one candidate to the other, for instance.

Exit polls have been considered reliable for decades. Why such a disparity in 2016 and now?

How do we get the House to investigate this?

Ruby Zee

(170 posts)
9. Yes, compare more states
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 02:42 PM
Nov 2020

I would like to see more analysis of results via hackable machine or paper ballot from all the states. We have had a hacking problem since at least 2000 in one form or another.
Voter Verified Paper Ballots for all!

wiggs

(7,810 posts)
8. they messed around in voter roll information in 2016. how hard would it be to
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 02:40 PM
Nov 2020

change an address, a middle name, a signature, age, etc...and let Giuliani know so that he knows where to look for ballots to invalidate?

TrishaJ

(797 posts)
10. Yes, I've considered this
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 02:42 PM
Nov 2020

when the electronic vote results starting coming in. And it WAS the plan to vote in such overwhelming numbers it couldn't be tampered with. Also, hackers cannot mess with mail in voting results as there is a hard-copy paper trail of the votes. I wouldn't say for sure there was hacking; but I wouldn't rule it out, either.

Blue Owl

(50,259 posts)
11. I think it's at least worth investigating
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 02:44 PM
Nov 2020

C'mon people -- we're dealing with Donald Fucking tRump here -- the sleaziest businessman in our country's history -- who is openly getting away with every possible method of cheating to steal this thing, so he can keep his "get out of jail free" card. Just look how desperate he is. He is guilty and he knows it.

There is plenty of documentation and evidence linking him to Russia/Putin.

It would help explain why the polls were so skewed in areas where there are electronic/hackable machines (whereas mail-in ballot data seems more consistent with polling averages).

And right now there's no way of knowing for sure, which is a perfect cover-up operation for malfeasance.

If evidence from a legitimate federal investigation proves that there was no interference, then I would be inclined to accept those results.

And we really need to safeguard our election systems so that it's not even possible to hack or flip votes (like it is now).

Captain Zero

(6,783 posts)
32. Some math sleuths will look into it like before. Find anomalies and be ignored.
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 03:28 PM
Nov 2020

They always switch votes in the largest precincts in the largest counties. It's been found before in the final numbers at that level. But is always roundly ignored.

crickets

(25,952 posts)
13. You're not the only one wondering.
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 02:45 PM
Nov 2020

I wouldn't be surprised at all if the cheat was in, but they just couldn't quite put trump over the top without making it too obvious.

Isn't it possible that the Russians DID hack this election, but we just voted in overwhelming enough numbers to overcome their interference? Couldn't THAT possibly be the reason for losing Florida and Ohio and Texas and Iowa and some other States that most people expected Biden to be extremely competitive in? And why his margins of victory in some of these States that looked pretty safe all along were smaller than expected?


👆 👆 👆 👆 👆 👆

Entirely plausible.

Captain Zero

(6,783 posts)
35. Yes this. They had to estimate how many to switch to overcome mail in and it was too much
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 03:31 PM
Nov 2020

But I guarantee they did do it.

Look at the precinct level say in Milwaukee County.
The vote off of the machines will be much closer than the vote of the mail in ballots for the same precinct.
At the precinct level there should not be a lot of difference.

MagickMuffin

(15,933 posts)
14. Why, yes I have
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 02:46 PM
Nov 2020

because things just look too suspicious. All the republicons winning most all their seats sans a few that didn't. Something just seems off.

And putin doesn't care if his useful idiot is gone, he still has the senate.

LizBeth

(9,952 posts)
15. Especially Florida and probably Texas with the dishonest Republicans running the state
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 02:47 PM
Nov 2020

and past evidence of machine tampering. Yes. Not to mention Post Office tampering.

stopdiggin

(11,242 posts)
33. except that the Russians
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 03:28 PM
Nov 2020

have nothing to do with the Post Office -- or dishonest Republicans messing with elections. (other than the fact that they're high-fiving each other -- and virtually laughing their asses off) Good old fashion American cheating.

LaMouffette

(2,019 posts)
16. Yes, I did think of that, too.
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 02:47 PM
Nov 2020

To me, it's just bizarre that over his first term Trump has had an average approval rating of 40 percent. That's historically low. Also, in 2016, he lost the popular vote by about 3 million votes, and since then, he has made zero effort to gain more supporters. He has only tried to strengthen his 40 percent base. Plus, 2020 has seen historic voter turnout. High voter turnout usually favors Democrats.

So, what gives? Did Trump gain more supporters? Or are Russian hackers somehow manipulating the vote counting?

BannonsLiver

(16,294 posts)
20. Doesn't explain the lawsuits or the unhinged nature of the Trump campaign
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 02:49 PM
Nov 2020

In the last 48 hours. They aren’t behaving like a campaign confident they are going to win.

phylny

(8,367 posts)
27. I think it's possible there was hacking.
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 02:59 PM
Nov 2020

Trump tried to stop mail-in voting because someone told him it's more difficult to hack those votes, especially because there's a necessary paper trail. Now, he's ranting and raving because he thought those hacks that were in place would actually work in his favor.

I am hoping a Biden Department of Justice gets to the bottom of this once and for all. No redactions!

JCMach1

(27,553 posts)
21. Absolutely, ES&S machines used in Miami-Dade
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 02:53 PM
Nov 2020

And in the Rio Grande Valley Counties in TX.

These machines have known vulnerabilities.

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
23. Yup - a mix of Putin propaganda, flipping some vote counts, DeJoik, and old-fashioned suppression...
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 02:55 PM
Nov 2020

...also the GOP brainwashing machine (Fux, Falsebook, Twit, hate radio).

lobointexas

(85 posts)
26. I have definitely considered it.
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 02:58 PM
Nov 2020

I think they did it in 2016 and again in 2020. The Russians didn't spend their time hacking in all 50 states for nothing.

The Senate Intelligence Committee concluded Thursday that election systems in all 50 states were targeted by Russia in 2016, an effort more far-reaching than previously acknowledged and one largely undetected by the states and federal officials at the time.


https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/25/us/politics/russian-hacking-elections.html

crickets

(25,952 posts)
37. 👆 Important post. Thanks for the link, lobo.
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 03:42 PM
Nov 2020
But while the bipartisan report’s warning that the United States remains vulnerable in the next election is clear, its findings were so heavily redacted at the insistence of American intelligence agencies that even some key recommendations for 2020 were blacked out. [snip]

While the Senate Intelligence Committee’s findings were bipartisan, they came on a day when Senator Mitch McConnell, Republican of Kentucky and the majority leader, moved again to block consideration of election security legislation put forward by Democrats. [snip]

And despite the warnings about the Russia threat, he argues that Congress has already done enough — passing $380 million worth of grants for states to update their election systems and supporting executive branch agencies as they make their own changes. Some administration officials have suggested that the issue is not getting enough high-level attention because President Trump equates any public discussion of malign Russian election activity with questions about the legitimacy of his victory. [snip]

Mr. McConnell has held fast to his position despite withering criticism from Democrats, and agitation from some in his party who want the Senate to move more modest, bipartisan legislation. The Democratic proposal, already passed by the House, would have given the states hundreds of millions of dollars in grants, mandated the use of backup paper ballots and required risk-limiting postelection audits.


Moscow Mitch has earned his nickname for many reasons.

JHB

(37,154 posts)
28. I think it needs to be looked into by a DoJ that isn't controlled by Putin's pigeon...
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 02:59 PM
Nov 2020

...but until we have something solid we can't wave it around as an explanation.

Same goes for reviewing 2016, which also should be done by a DoJ that isn't controlled by Putin's pigeon.

And I am expressly NOT repeating the phrase Putin's pigeon just to ruffle anyone's orange feathers, I swear.

stillcool

(32,626 posts)
36. they're hacking something...
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 03:41 PM
Nov 2020

but we'll never know. Although, when was it last week...last week? that a bunch of hospitals had their systems go kerflooey?

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