Socialism

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

Socialism is the street upon which you live. Otherwise, I'm buying that street and turning it into a toll road. How does $10,000.00 a trip sound?

Fuck the people spawning hate.

[Budi]

1. "I am not a socialist" President Joe Biden

[KS Toronado]

2. Repugs have succeeded in making the word "Socialism" into something evil.

Democrats need to counter this trend.

[StarryNite]

5. Just like they did to "Liberal"

I'm a proud liberal and socialism has it's merits.

[grobertj]

36. WHY???

What's wrong with calling ourselves Democrats? Socialism will NEVER be popular in the US. I've been a proud Democrat since my first vote in 1972 for McGovern. But I am not a socialism, and I'd bet a large majority of Democrats would say the same.

[PTWB]

38. That means you don't know what socialism means and you've fallen for their propaganda.

[grobertj]

40. I certainly do know what Socialism means, and Joe Biden and I are not Socialists!

Why would we waste our time trying to convince people that socialism is a good thing. Let's convince them that universal health care is a right. That our national infrastructure needs a LOT of work. Come on, man!!

[PTWB]

41. Hmm.

Employee owned companies are better for society than publicly traded mega corporations beholden to stockholders at our expense.

Change my mind.

[grobertj]

59. There's nothing wrong with employed owned companies, but

capitalism has proven to be a superior economic system to socialism. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

[PTWB]

62. No system is perfect.

Our capitalistic system is terrible. It’s just a lot less terrible than other systems. Extremely heavily regulated capitalism with comprehensive social programs would be a step in the right direction but won’t get is there all the way.

Which pure socialist society has proven to be worse than a pure capitalist society?

The Nordic model is working a hell of a lot better than our system and is probably superior. It isn’t purely socialist (and our system isn’t purely capitalist) but it has many socialist elements.

The good news is our system is barreling toward a cliff and things are going to change whether I like it or you like it. The disproportionate amount of wealth being amassed by the richest 1% is unsustainable. Eventually people are going to rise up and put a stop to it.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

52. "I am not a socialism."

I give the fuck up.

[PTWB]

60. Oh yeah?

I AM A DEMOCRACY

[brooklynite]

3. Thank you for reinforcing the argument against campaigning on "socialism"

Socialism doesn't mean a Government - provided public service or benefit....except apparently on the left side of the Democratic Party.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

7. ???

Please expand?

[brooklynite]

9. "Socialism is the street upon which you live."

No, it's not. That's a Government service. SOCIALISM is the Government controlling the means of production. Endless attempts to redefine the word doesn't work.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

12. So wrong Look it up.

[Hav]

17. That image doesn't support your argument...like at all

Quite the opposite actually. The message is about falsely describing something as socialism when it's not. It's literally what the OP did.

[Spazito]

43. Exactly! n/t

[bdamomma]

32. .......

Amen.

[Caliman73]

19. Correct, and wrong at the same time.

Socialism is NOT the street upon which we live. You are right about that.

Socialism is when the WORKERS control the means of production. Not the government. You are thinking about Communism when you talk about government control.

Socialism means there is no private ownership of businesses but personal property and even classes still exist.


I happen to think that Socialism would likely not work in complex, built up societies in any pure form (if there even is a pure form) I also happen to think that Capitalism does not work either unless it is heavily regulated to keep it from turning into what it is now in the US, corrupt and oppressive.

People fear Socialism because Capitalists have done a really good job speaking to people's fear and greed. They have me convinced that it probably couldn't work, and I can't even define why.

[brooklynite]

21. Socialism (Noun):

Any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods -- Merriam-Webster

Communism further presumes that the Government fades away and the workers administer the means of production.

[PTWB]

39. Employee owned companies are better for society than publicly traded corporations.

Change my mind.

[moose65]

13. Do you even know what socialism is?

The right-wing has always labeled as "socialist" anything that helps the people.

But that's NOT what socialism is.

There are actually several socialist parties in American and they had Presidential candidates. They got some votes, but it was like fewer than 100,000 total in the entire country, and no one has ever heard of any of their candidates.

No one in the Democratic party is advocating for a socialist government.

[Budi]

27. K & R

It is a means of production.

That's it.

[question everything]

4. Does not matter. "Socialism" is enough to scare people from voting from you

Oh, and the street where I live is a result of local laws. Even socialists should respect laws otherwise it is a revolution which many wish it were.

[Roisin Ni Fiachra]

6. I hates soshlists!!!111!!!

Their steeling the elekshun!!!111!!!

Sincerely,
Beer, BBQ & Freedom Guy

[bdamomma]

35. Just A Little Tidbit Of Information

Republicans are socialists they take away from you and give it back to themselves, That's Reverse Socialism.

[hunter]

8. All the "isms" need to go away.

All the ideologies and religions have no place in politics.

Be practical, embrace what works.

[TheRealNorth]

10. +1

[Caliman73]

22. What works? Can you define, what works?

Whether they have a place or not, our beliefs, cultural values, family practices, personal experiences, etc... define who we are and what we do and expect.

Politics is about how people govern themselves. Religion has been linked to politics since the Pharaohs declared themselves gods and the priests convinced the people they were the only ones who could communicate with the gods.

Also, what is practical for you, may not be practical for me. Now if I am wealthy and I have more means by which to convince others that what is practical and works for me, is better than what is practical and works for you, then how will you get what you need?

That is like saying, "You just need to use common sense". It doesn't work that way because "common sense" and "practical / what works" is different for different people.

Sure, we can agree that sticking a fork into a plugged in toaster is a bad idea, but We can't even agree that tearing families apart and sticking babies and young children in cages is a bad thing.

What we need is a better educated populace that has been taught to think critically, to determine a good source from a bad source of information. We need people to be able to understand and discuss complex issues like taxation and immigration. I would agree with you that things like religion can cloud the intellect.

[hunter]

34. I'm a radical left wing Dorothy Day Catholic and environmentalist extremist.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Day

Nevertheless my politics are always practical.

In my life I've experienced homelessness, living in my broken car in a church parking lot, later one week from foreclosure, and occasional bouts of comfortable affluence.

I'm in a randomly comfortable stage now, enough so that I sent the Biden/Harris campaign $1000.

Which is less than my wife and I have sent to our local food bank and "service industry" family screwed by Trump's pandemic failure.

I would kill all the bad sources of information. I don't contribute to any of them. No cable, no satellite, no broadcast television.

[Caliman73]

51. I totally agree with your last statement.

A very big reason we are in this mess is because of how the media shapes our understanding of issues and policy. In California we went overwhelmingly blue, but yet we are allowing Uber and Lyft to keep exploiting workers, we are allowing big corporations to continue to pay miniscule taxes on commercial properties, we kept medical standards at Dialysis clinics inadequate, and we will continue to use the stupid cash bail system. Why? Because the money that was spent to defeat those measures was in the hundreds of millions of dollars and people bought into the narrative.

[W_HAMILTON]

11. Let's stop defending socialism.

Let that term go. If that election taught us anything, for the love of god, let that term go.

We are literally losing elections we shouldn't just because of that term. Just let it go.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

14. Why?

[W_HAMILTON]

16. Because it is a losing proposition.

And it literally changes nothing. Whether we defend the term "socialism" or not, our policies are the same. Why die on that hill then?

It is believe that Florida turned against Biden because of "socialism" and yet they voted to increase their minimum wage at the same time, before they voted to restore voting rights to certain convicted felons that have served their time, etc.

So, do you want your/our policies enacted or do you want to fight on the internet to defend the term "socialism?"

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

18. I prefer good over evil

regardless.

[W_HAMILTON]

20. Then I heartily encourage you spend more time advocating for good over evil...

...rather than haggling about what is or is not "socialism."

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

24. ]Okay.

Howsabout spending a lot more on the homeless work for you?

[W_HAMILTON]

25. That sounds wonderful. I'm always in favor of making our country and world a better place.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

26. Holy fuck

[Budi]

30. That's exactly what the Pope said!

[Budi]

28. Thank you.

Ask Venezuelans how it worked out for them

[hunter]

37. I'm an unapologetic socialist....

... with a dead great uncle and other ancestors named W. Hamilton.

W. Hamilton's brother just wanted to defeat the Nazis and build space ships.

Which he did.

My own politics is about getting stuff done.

In any true first world nation nobody is hungry, homeless, or lacking appropriate medical care.

The U.S.A. is not a first world nation.

[W_HAMILTON]

42. We just watched a lot of good Democrats running on similar policies and positions...

...go down in defeat simply because they were branded "socialists" by their Republican opponents.

I also want to feed those that are hungry, decrease homelessness, and achieve universal healthcare coverage, so, how about we focus our energies on advocating for those positions instead of wasting time branding ourselves or those policies as "socialist?"

[hunter]

47. Who is doing the branding?

I'm pretty sure Biden and Harris refused that brand.

[W_HAMILTON]

49. And it didn't matter because Republicans lie and gullible people believe them...

...especially when Republicans trot out very prominent Democratic and Democratic-caucusing Independent politicians that have openly tried to take up the argument in favor of the term or different alternatives to the term.

Just drop it. How hard is it to do? Argue policies and positions. Just let the term go. No one ever got fed or got healthcare because someone debated the term socialism or democratic socialism on the internet.

[lagomorph777]

45. I self-identify as Socialist. I recommend banning the word.

They've poisoned and exploited the word.

Promote "fairness" instead.
Start co-opting lots of their hollow words, but attach real substance.

e.g. Pro-Life applies to your whole life.
Freedom means free to live without being robbed by the rich and powerful.

[Hav]

15. It's funny when people advocate for something without knowing what it means

There are definitions to look up that tell you what socialism is. Investments by the government for the public is not socialism.
Another common error is equating social policies with socialism. Social policies will likely be supported by a majority. Socialism on the other side is pure cancer if you want to win an election in the US.

[maxsolomon]

23. Public roads are a SOCIAL benefit with SOCIALIZED costs

that create SOCIALLY functional COMMUNITIES (OMG that word has the same Latin root as COMMUNISM).

America, the land of idiotic, false Binary Choices, will not have a substantive adult conversation about what SOCIETAL needs should be SOCIALIZED and what are properly privately held.

Only the most ridiculous Libertarian would advocate for private Fire Departments, so there is some precedent to use as a basis for agreement, for finding a "Middle Way" between an impossible Socialist ideal and a rapacious Capitalism.

Marquis Childs tried to explain this during the FDR administration:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marquis_Childs#:~:text=A%20pamphlet%20and%20two%20books%20developed%20from%20this,special%20commission%20abroad%20to%20study%20European%20cooperative%20systems.

[moondust]

29. A century of scaremongering has worked wonders.

Sometime after the Bolshevik revolution Republicans figured out that they could conflate just about anything that government wanted to do for the public good with big bad "communism"--gubment takeover! Anything paid for with taxes rather than private profits is evil communism!!! Socialism is just the early stages of communism!!! Halp!!!!!

And it's apparently still working. Ana Navarro believes many Cuban-Americans in Little Havana and other Latino immigrants voted for Trump because they've been targeted by Republicans with the Democrat=socialism/communism scaremongering for the past 4 years.

[Budi]

31. Ann Navarro is correct.

"they've been targeted by Republicans with the Democrat=socialism/communism scaremongering for the past 4 years."

They abandoned life under Castro because of it.
Trump Republicans knew what trigger words to attach to Democrat.

Navarro is no one to argue with when it comes to shitty authoritarian governments.

[moondust]

50. Yup.

Socialism/communism is what they or their parents and grandparents fled. I'd be curious to know how many of them actually lived back in the old country prior to the revolution. I understand it wasn't pretty for a lot of people in those days either. Maybe their grandparents were part of the (corrupt) old regimes.

[EllieBC]

61. That was true for Russia too.

It was awful under the czars and awful under the socialists and still awful under the mob.

[moondust]

64. Yup.

The Russians probably had an opportunity in the 1990s to set up a system of shared prosperity. They had plenty of experience in what not to do. Perhaps they could have nationalized their oil industry and used the shared wealth to help diversify and expand the private sector as well as schools, roads, bridges, etc. Instead it seems Vlad and his pals somehow ended up with the lion's share of the wealth produced by the "reconfiguration" of Soviet oil assets. I don't follow it closely but I've understood that inequality there is pretty bad given the "mob" of oligarchs.

[SKKY]

33. I wish we were as quick to label them as Fascists as they are to...

Last edited Fri Nov 6, 2020, 04:41 PM - Edit history (1)

...label us as Socialists. Sometimes, we are way too nice.

[ooky]

55. I think we should. If MSM went along might take hold.

MSM never talks Fascism but it will talk Socialism all day long.

[lagomorph777]

44. Ban the word (even denounce it). Change the message to "fairness" and "stick it to The Man."

[Spazito]

46. Defend social programs like healthcare, etc...

instead of defending "socialism" which has become a cudgel used by the left and the right with the right winning with it.

[Brother Mythos]

48. My way of dealing with the RWNJ's who call me a socialist is to ...

tell them, "Actually, I'm a communist. Socialists are just a bunch of pussies." I probably shouldn't do it, but I love seeing the looks on their faces. And, as an added bonus, it usually puts a quick end to conversations I have no interest in continuing.

It feels like a lifetime ago since I thought of myself as being a pragmatic moderate.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

53. +100 n/t

[ooky]

56. I ask them to explain what they mean, and that usually puts a quick end to the conversation.

Because they don't know what socialism is.

[Bear Creek]

54. Socialism

In the good USA means top 1% and companies, businesses and banks are supported and paid for by us. Not by us buying goods and services but by them collecting our tax dollars. Then turning around and charging us for the goods and services again. They only holler socialism if it’s something that benefits working and poor people. The republicans are nationalist socialists.

[WyattKansas]

57. Look, I write-in Democratic Socialist evertime I see a Republican unopposed on the ballot and...

I believe in the socialist policies that this country bragged about becoming a Super Power under from FDR on to present. Those tax cut gifts to the wealthy would not be possible without the leveraged debt against the Trust Funds to finance them without ever being repaid.

Perhaps the Democratic Party should get less focused on the name of the 'policy' itself and focus on connecting the dots that FDR injected into this country to save capitalism from itself and give us progressive and social policies in the process to rapidly expand the middle class and improve the lives of all Americans. Hell call socialist policies 'FDR' policies to stop the Republicans from defining socialism as communism and stoking fear into the American People... After all, who in the hell does not really like FDR, including Republicans???

Did FDR actually campaign on the words 'Socialist' or 'Socialism' or did he campaign on the end result and means to accomplish his goals to get his progressive and social policies?

[alarimer]

58. They are going to call Democrats socialist whether or not they actually are.

Their policies are not socialist. Fuck what the GOP says. Fuck the scare tactics and the quaking in fear of what some right-wing nutjob is going to say about policies. By even agreeing to lose certain terms, we are buying into the Republicans framing of the debate. This is wrong and it has always been a problem. Democrats just need to grow some spines.

[Mr. Ected]

63. Time to start calling the MAGATs what they are - TRULY are:

FASCISTS. Fascism. One party rule.

If the foo shits, wear it.