General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhy are people so angry the media is being careful to get it right before projecting a winner?
If news outlets were to call it and got it wrong because they jumped the gun, they'd never hear the end of it - and the people now demanding that they call it immediately would be screaming the loudest.
We're not children waiting for Santa Claus to come. Why can't we just be patient, let the counting continue, and wait for the call to be made?
Sheesh!
Dem2
(8,166 posts)I assume it's frustration and generally hide the threads.
Demsrule86
(68,454 posts)Also, the longer this goes on the more dangerous Trump will be...and his supporters are increasingly raising hell.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)In 2016, states were able to complete their counts much earlier.
This year, the unprecedented and overwhelming number of mail-in/absentee ballots are making it impossible to complete counts as quickly as in the past.
Right now, the number of uncounted absentee ballots is high enough that it would be irresponsible to project a winner, even though the trend seems pretty clear. But a trend is not a vote.
Demsrule86
(68,454 posts)was tighter than this year too.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)based on the number of uncounted ballots.
This year, there are still enough uncounted ballots to make it possible for Trump to catch up and win.
Demsrule86
(68,454 posts)Trump has lost...the votes are in blue areas. They could call PA right now and should. And please CNN and MSNBC stop with the lame excuses and the sobbing for Trump...it makes me sick.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)They cannot just assume that because votes come from a blue area that they will be votes for Biden. Yes, that is very likely but this does not operate based on likelihood but on probabilities and the probabilities cannot be confirmed until more of the votes are actually counted.
For example, in Pennsylvania there are more than 100,000 provisional ballots still uncounted. Many of those ballots are Republican voters who had requested absentee ballots but decided to vote in person. It's still possible that there are enough Republican votes in that batch to give Trump the lead.
This is not some grand conspiracy to harm Democrats or hurt Trump. This is just the way it's supposed to be done.
Demsrule86
(68,454 posts)StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Kaleva
(36,238 posts)If MSM calls it?
Demsrule86
(68,454 posts)Sure they will still be an issue...but they are just as wound up as we are...more really. And the longer it goes on, the harder it will be for them to process this.
Kaleva
(36,238 posts)MSM calling it isn't official. That won't happen till the Electors vote in December.
Demsrule86
(68,454 posts)Statistical
(19,264 posts)or 2012 or 2008 or hell ELECTION NIGHT in 2020.
Suddenly Trump is on the verge of losing and yet again norms and standards which have existed for decades suddenly change to accommodate his fragile ego.
Clinton lost WI and MI by less than 0.50% did anyone wait until 99.5% of the vote had been counted before calling? It went into a recount in WI did everyone wait 13 days for that to happen before calling?
Of course not. No Presidential candidate has ever been giving this much latitude in the face of overwhelming evidence (and likely never will in the future). Fuck Trump. He lost. He is a loser. Lets announce it and start talking about what it means going forward.
GA is the only one which you could make a case for not calling. NV, AZ, and PA should already be called and Biden sitting at 290 EV and making his victory speech, announcing his transition team, and making public plans for the future.
Yavin4
(35,408 posts)The media needs their Big Bad:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100214481188
Demsrule86
(68,454 posts)coti
(4,612 posts)This thing is OVER!! Call it!!
AngryOldDem
(14,061 posts)Locrian
(4,522 posts)It wound have been called already if the leads and outstanding votes were as it is.
This is either cowardice, or they want "ratings" and to continue the drama.
Every hour gives the trump camp and supporter more time to change the narrative and sow doubt. You will NEVER appease them, this is the same losing strategy that they have been playing and getting played by trump for 4 years. Enough.
jcgoldie
(11,610 posts)The presumption of doubt is fueling the fire and the trump narrative.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)For example, Biden is leading Trump by about 15,000 votes in Pennsylvania. But more than 200,000 absentee ballots have yet to be counted. Even though it is very likely that those ballots will break toward Biden, there's no guarantee of it. Math makes it possible for those ballots to go either way.
jcgoldie
(11,610 posts)Thank you.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/11/06/us/trump-biden#in-pivotal-states-that-could-put-biden-over-the-top-the-counting-continues-slowly (posted 35 minutes ago)
Statistical
(19,264 posts)It shouldn't suddenly be the case now because baby hilter has a sad.
Clinton lost WI by
Demsrule86
(68,454 posts)not conceding immediately...just heard CNN practically sobbing for Trump and his loathsome supporters...turned it off. They won't get any ratings from me...bastards. They are helping Trump...and it is a dangerous thing to do.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)This is very different than 2016. If you're going to argue about this, please at least check your facts.
DeminPennswoods
(15,265 posts)Of those 68k are in Allegheny, Phila and the Phila collar counties. But, yeah, maybe Trump will completely reverse the trend and win 80% of them. This after most of the Trump stronghold of Westmoreland county's mailed ballots came in at 60% Biden.
If you look at the provisional ballots, those that are valid are closely following the percent each candidate got in that particular county. And, a significant chunk of the provisionals are in Allegheny and Philadelphia as I understand it.
coti
(4,612 posts)take advantage of to make political moves and tell lies that cause serious problems and damage our country.
AND, mathematically, there is no good reason NOT to! The race is over!
Thekaspervote
(32,688 posts)Thats who he is, thats what he does
coti
(4,612 posts)aren't even willing to call the race yet.
They need to call it now, dragging this out is not helping anything.
OhZone
(3,212 posts)HA!
Kaleva
(36,238 posts)Mr. Ected
(9,670 posts)If they rush to call, the pooplicans will cry that we knew the numbers in advance because we defrauded them.
By being prudent, we diminish their points of attack.
coti
(4,612 posts)Mr. Ected
(9,670 posts)They've been filling it since before the first vote was cast.
Hamlette
(15,407 posts)the net work has rules and it follows them. No call until 99.5% counted.
coti
(4,612 posts)There are no black and white rules like that, it's entirely situational judgment.
Demsrule86
(68,454 posts)Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)
LW1977 This message was self-deleted by its author.
Thekaspervote
(32,688 posts)Happened nation wide. Violence would certainly ensue
On another note, its most suitable that little tiny hands is suffering the death of his brief but criminal political career by a thousand paper cuts, agonizing, flailing and consumed
Demsrule86
(68,454 posts)projections forever in every other race, is unfair. I am livid that Trump gets coddled while Hillary who was way closer was just criticized horrible for not conceding right away. Turn off both channels. I won't help their ratings while they IMHO damage our country.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)This isnt like 1948 when Americans pretty much got along - except for racism - such that a Dewey Truman mistake wouldnt have caused a major riot.
LizBeth
(9,952 posts)thrower. And the more we try to merely appease his tantrums, the more out of control he gets. Because it is not healthy or right.
They know there is no place for Trump to go with NV. It is over.
They know Trump has lost Penn.
But this allows his crazy supporters to think surely there must be fire with all this smoke since it is taking and extraordinary amount of time to call the election. Must really be close, and it is not. Allows them and Trump to stew and build up angst too when it is totally unnecessary because Trump has mathematically lost.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)They know how the votes are trending. They don't know for certain how those absentee ballots will actually turn out. They also don't know the results of the provisional ballots.
Yes, we're all pretty sure how this will turn out. But that is not sufficient to justify a media projection of a winner.
LizBeth
(9,952 posts)quickly without all these hoops up all of a sudden, that none of the others states jumped thru. The issues could be in those states as they continue to count as much as Penn. Not ONE person thinks Penn is going to anyone but Biden. That is as good as it gets when calling states as they did thru out this election and EVERY election in our history.
We are treating Trump special. We are being that parent that is so damn afraid of our kid not taking the tantrum on and he will continue ot get worse as will his supporters.
The is a specific message with calling a race. We all know it and people are pretending there is not.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Virginia completed it's vote counts very quickly, thanks to a new law that allowed officials to process and scan absentee ballots upon receipt and not have to wait until election day. That meant that as soon as the polls closed, they could be tabulated immediately. Most states have to wait until Election Day - and often until the polls close - to open the envelopes, flatten out the ballots and get them ready for scanning. That takes much longer. And given the huge number of absentee ballots this year, that really slowed down the process.
That's a particular problem in Pennsylvania, among other places where the state legislatures refused elections officials' request to be permitted to process absentee ballots before the polls closed.
LizBeth
(9,952 posts)counts and called. There are ways the calculate the given and call it while counting. Everyone has given Biden Penn. And they won't call it. Trump does not have a path with Nv and the official want it called, and they are not calling it. This is not normal procedure. And Trump just is not that special, but what he does get with his tantrums is EVERYONE afraid to not give him what he wants or try to appease him. ALL his life and I am fuckin sick of it and do not want to be a part of it but here we sit.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)You're right. The media is engaging in a major conspiracy to undermine Biden, damage Democrats and help Trump.
But they didn't fool you, did they?
LizBeth
(9,952 posts)conversation and a whole lot of Democrats saying, oh lets make sure we go all the way thru the process before calling it, just be patient. There is no damn conspiracy. Geezus. Thread after thread after thread of the discussion and you dismiss me with accusation I am throwing out a conspiracy.
We are doing the same enabling with Trump that people have done all his life.
Demsrule86
(68,454 posts)conceding right away...and she was way closer.
Thekaspervote
(32,688 posts)We arent there yet
LizBeth
(9,952 posts)Demsrule86
(68,454 posts)StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)The MAGA militia/QAnon crowd will just shut up and go home as soon as they hear Steve Karnacki and MSNBC project Biden the winner?
Let us know how that works out.
Demsrule86
(68,454 posts)pills. They won't call it...ratings maybe or fear of Trump...hell they were so sorry for poor Trump and he needed time to process blah blah...no he needs to be stopped. Alito just ordered separation of ballots. This is nightmare. The longer it goes on the worse it will be. Trump is trying to run out the clock so he can get a new set of electors.
TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)to be wrong about Biden winning at all.
Things are so insane this year that I want it to be CLEAR Biden won before it's announced.
It's not clear yet. Really, it isn't. High probabilities are not accurate totals.
Thekaspervote
(32,688 posts)We have trusted Joe Biden thus far, most agree hes run an almost seamless campaign. We need to go just a little further...its really just around the corner
Mike 03
(16,616 posts)Because it has been thoroughly discussed for hours.
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,232 posts)StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)It just seems that some of us can never be satisfied. The other night folks were gnashing their teeth, carrying on as if the world were about to end even though votes had not been counted yet. Now we're on the verge of a wonderful victory, and instead of enjoying it, people are whining and moaning that the call hasn't yet been made.
This insistence on playing victim and finding conspiracies behind every tree must be exhausting.
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,232 posts)I have not yet used the tv for updates because tv has a way of making waits longer.
Folks blow off steam in multiple ways. DU seems to have a full range, which includes people who feel victimized and people who soothe them. Very grateful for such a variety of distractions while waiting for the last eggs to hatch.
There is a live feed from PA that's been posted a few times. It really shows the size of the job as well as the ebb and flow of it.
Johnny2X2X
(18,965 posts)They have their experts in Tv saying PA is finished, Biden will gain with provisionals and the rest of the mail ins. Then they refuse to call it still.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)The commentary is opinion offered by pundits. Calling the race is a decision made by a completely different part of the operation
NutmegYankee
(16,199 posts)The suspense is making me sick.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)coti
(4,612 posts)when it's what's needed.
LizBeth
(9,952 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)and wants everyone to fight evil forces by making really bad trouble for Trump and God.
We know that because an otherwise very nice neighbor emailed us a call to join their battle tonight. We didnt know how much his wife, who recently died of cancer, reined him in.
I do think that people who agree with that kind of thing would find much more agreement and Personal satisfaction on the right. They do it so much better.
coti
(4,612 posts)Hell, the right DO have the cowards.
Totally Tunsie
(10,885 posts)Orangepeel
(13,933 posts)I know it's been 20 years since Bush/Gore, but that one proves that it's *really* bad when states are called too early
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)And even as we sit on the verge of achieving what we've been fighting for so hard, they can't simply enjoy it, but must instead find something to complain about.
gopiscrap
(23,724 posts)if the same exact situation would reversed B because each day this isn't called it give trump and his MAGAts that much more time to try to steal it and set a narrative that it was crooked
LizBeth
(9,952 posts)LizBeth
(9,952 posts)call it because of Trumps tantrums, making sure every single damn i was dotted and every t crossed even though we NEVER run an election that way and with the SC stickin' its toes in the election they are gonna be just that much more afraid.
Thank you very much. It is now gonna get messy and who knows when, when we had the opportunity to call it.
egduj
(805 posts)brettdale
(12,356 posts)They have called other elections before. If trump was ahead like this it wouldve been called and they would explain it by saying.... The trends have been the same all day of course we are calling it now. It would be idiotic to wait two or three days.