General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forumsa couple caveats on the promising pzifer vaccine:
above all, it's clearly very encouraging news, even if the testing isn't complete. better efficacy than we would have happily settled for in such a short time frame (even though it feels like it's dragging on forever, this is lightning speed for vaccine development).
first, it requires two doses, three weeks apart. so, not an instant fix.
second, it needs to be kept cold constantly from manufacturing until injection. manageable for developed countries like america, but not so good for many countries across the world, which in turn means the virus will be around for a while even if once it's under control here at home.
third, it will take months to complete the testing and ramp up manufacturing and distribution, and get people to take the doses, and then for the actual number of active cases to drop to safer levels. part of the protection of a vaccine is that the person who gets it is protected (but only 90% in this case) and part of the protection is lower exposure risk because other people are less likely to have it as they get the vaccine as well (herd immunity). it will take more time even after you get your shots for the herd immunity part to kick in.
grantcart
(53,061 posts)Isn't 90% efficacy quite high,especially for a neww vaccine?
LisaL
(44,973 posts)NT
unblock
(52,188 posts)that said, the final number is very likely to still be at least 80-85%, and even that is great at this stage.
soothsayer
(38,601 posts)Klaralven
(7,510 posts)This is closer scrutiny than peers give scientific journal papers.
soothsayer
(38,601 posts)Steelrolled
(2,022 posts)The FDA has been involved every step of the way.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)It's needs to be kept in a special ultra low freezer. Doctor's offices and pharmacies don't have those.
unblock
(52,188 posts)but you're right, there will also be many delays and spoiled vaccines along the way....
-80C for long term storage
2-8C for up to 4 weeks
room temp for 24 hours
They could run some tests at -5 and I imagine they would get months. In the US at least we can ship down to -20 easily (UPS, Fedex).
Steelrolled
(2,022 posts)I don't think short-term storage during the initial rollout of the vaccine will be a problem. Medical facilities will be using up the vaccine as fast as it is received.
hlthe2b
(102,210 posts)pharmacies, and doctor's offices. That was an original concern for the varicella vaccine, which fortunately turned out to be more in line with storage issues for other routine vaccines. But, the mRNA vaccines are going to be extremely termperature sensitive.
Not to mention we know way too little about longevity of protective antibody. So, yes, it is a positive report, but PH officials are correct in saying a mask with distancing still remains one's best protection and will for a long time to come.
unblock
(52,188 posts)never know with them, especially when a democrat is in the white house, but once the vaccine is proven and available, *everyone* will be clamoring for it and will want congress to make it happen asap.
Steelrolled
(2,022 posts)Regarding our best protection for now, I would say it the other way around: Social distancing, with masks. An unfortunate effect of the big push for mask usage is that people get the impression is that is all it takes. Masks help, but social distancing is the key.
hlthe2b
(102,210 posts)is a modification. Especially if they intend to store for several days in a confined area with nothing more than a cooler that off-gasses.
And for the nitpicking, I said a MASK WITH DISTANCING>
Klaralven
(7,510 posts)We have to get through the winter and spring of '21 by continuing social distancing and public hygiene measures.
We also have to pass economic support measures for the unemployed and to continue keeping businesses out of bankruptcy. But we now have a good handle on how large those have to be and how long they must continue.
We also need to think about what the "new normal" economy looks like once Covid is suppressed. It won't be like the economy of 2019, since many changes are irreversible.
soothsayer
(38,601 posts)Link to tweet
?s=21
Bilderberg - Deep State #KBF #OurMovement 🐑😷💉⚰
@5Agenda21
Pfizer - UK contract for Vaccines
False Claims Act
Fines: $1,161,001,892 Offences 23
Drug or Safety Violations
Fines: $103,840,000 Offences 5
Foreign Corrupt Practices
Fines: $60,216,568 Offences 3
Kickbacks and Bribery
Fines: $34,700,000Offences 3
https://violationtracker.goodjobsfirst.org/prog.php?parent=pfizer
unblock
(52,188 posts)lol.
you're right, there are quite a number of ways in which this could turn out to be a dud, including side effects that develop later.
but for now, it's good news, i'll take it.
Hugin
(33,114 posts)Okay, I'm glad you're on watch.
demmiblue
(36,838 posts)Hugin
(33,114 posts)Fortunately, the information in the tweet posted by soothsayer is easily enough verified by credible sources.
demmiblue
(36,838 posts)I mean, the name itself gives the account away (including the sheep, mask and injection).
Hugin
(33,114 posts)Ferrets are Cool
(21,105 posts)Hugin
(33,114 posts)First off, how do they know it's 90% effective?
LisaL
(44,973 posts)NT
Yeppers.
unblock
(52,188 posts)they looked at
a) the total number of cases among the people who got the vaccine and compared it to
b) the total number of cases among the people who got the saline injection (placebo).
and i'm guessing a) was 90% less than b)
no idea if it's more sophisticated than that, e.g., do they try to control for level of interaction with strangers, hours outside the house, hours in enclosed areas with strangers, whether they wear a mask appropriately, etc.
Hugin
(33,114 posts)I have a commitment to caution wrt COVID and a transparent process of developing mitigation strategies.
Asking questions and review is part of the process.
Hugin
(33,114 posts)In which case how does one separate the factors when masks have already been shown to be very effective.
Distancing and isolation, too.
Good point.
unblock
(52,188 posts)there's always some uncertainty in these tests as you never know exactly how the individual subjects behaved "in the wild".
you have to hope that such things average out across the two groups.
Hugin
(33,114 posts)There's some confounding factors here. Such as, the group chosen as subjects from the pool of applicants as a whole were all probably already extremely COVID proactive and therefore more likely to follow the existing protocols 'in-the-wild'.
I'm sure the disclaimer to continue the existing protocols will be added in the fine print, if and when, this vaccine is finally distributed. Oh, well... At least half of the population will potentially be better off, excluding the Trumpanzees and Loser45 himself. A bright spot!
the vaccine or saline randomly to 40,000 people (neither the people injecting or receiving the shot knew which). They then tracked the people, in this case ~90 in the saline group got sick and 8 in the vaccine group.
Hugin
(33,114 posts)Very good Sgent. Thanks.
A relatively large trial for a vaccine.
Doodley
(9,078 posts)there's no way by just looking to tell if somebody has been vaccinated. Less mask-wearing means more risk of getting the virus for the non-vaccinated.
unblock
(52,188 posts)and masks are reportedly about 75% effective. so if people get an 80-90% effective vaccine but then stop using the 75% effective mask, the improvement isn't nearly as much as it would be if people continued (or started ffs) wearing masks until the number of active cases dropped to very low levels.
Ms. Toad
(34,060 posts)The goal of operation "Warp Speed" did was to cut out the ramp up for manufacturing.
That process is going on simultaneously with testing, so that distribution can begin almost immediately upon approval.
unblock
(52,188 posts)is this the sort of thing one has to just put in petri dishes and wait for things to cultivate, then repeat the process for the next batch?
or can it be scaled up faster?
DrToast
(6,414 posts)Ms. Toad
(34,060 posts)My understanding is that designation of which vaccines would be produced ahead of time was based on which were most promising.
DrToast
(6,414 posts)The drug companies still had the final say on whether or not to accept funding.
It is believed Pfizer chose not to because they didn't want Trump to politicize it.
Ms. Toad
(34,060 posts)even if it means a delay.
Steelrolled
(2,022 posts)This press release features multimedia. View the full release here: https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20200722005438/en/
The U.S. government will pay the companies $1.95 billion upon the receipt of the first 100 million doses, following FDA authorization or approval. The U.S. government also can acquire up to an additional 500 million doses.
Americans will receive the vaccine for free consistent with U.S. governments commitment for free access for COVID-19 vaccines.
DrToast
(6,414 posts)Pfizer is saying they never took any money.
https://www.newsweek.com/pfizer-covid-vaccine-operation-warp-speed-trump-pence-1546024
Steelrolled
(2,022 posts)At the time of the agreement, Pfizer and BioNTech were gung-ho.
I expect that Pfizer would not lock themselves into such an agreement, and at some point, might have determined they would be better off by selling on the free market.
Pfizer would do themselves no favors by discrediting the US governments efforts to accelerate vaccine development. I expect we will hear more about this.
EDIT TO ADD: Looking at the words of the announcement, this might be a key phrase:
So the agreement might be a guaranteed purchases at some agreed-upon price. This would help Pfizer in financing for the manufacturing ramp-up, but technically they would have received no money. I certainly hope Pfizer would not make this claim.
malaise
(268,899 posts)Additionally Pzifer had nothing to do with Operation Warp Speed.
That said this is hopeful news.