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hlthe2b

(102,200 posts)
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 01:28 PM Nov 2020

On the PA press conference of 19 legislators suggesting an audit, delay & possible elector swap

This is sending waves of horror through most of us. Even my typically low-normal BP is bumping up hearing and reading about these suggestions. Here an article that offers some perspective:
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/10/pennsylvania-gop-rallies-trumps-defense-435864

A small cadre of conservative Pennsylvania state legislators held a Harrisburg press conference Tuesday calling for an audit of the election to be completed before electors are seated.

“We have grave concerns regarding the future of our commonwealth,” said GOP state Rep. Dawn Keefer, who represents parts of York and Cumberland counties, both of which voted for Trump by double-digit percentage points. “We believe this moment is pivotal and important enough that the General Assembly needs to take extraordinary measures to answer these extraordinary questions.”

The state lawmakers on Tuesday offered no evidence of voter fraud. Only about 20 Republicans attended, a fraction of the nearly 140 members in the state legislature — and GOP legislative leaders were missing.

“It’s not going anywhere in the Senate,” said Christopher Nicholas, a longtime Pennsylvania-based GOP consultant, of the direct appointment of electors by the legislature. “I think those 19 folks had an itch to scratch. They just scratched it. I think that’s kind of the end of it.”


Still, the fact that Trump and state lawmakers are stoking fears of extensive voter fraud without evidence all but guarantees that a significant number of voters here will question the integrity of the race. A Morning Consult/POLITICO survey found that only 23 percent of Republican voters said they trust the election results in Pennsylvania. --snip--

But, Thornburgh added, the state law is clear that “the certification of the election is between the governor and the secretary of the commonwealth, so there’s no room for the legislature there and I do think it’s significant that the leadership is not supportive of this effort.”


Quite a bit more at the link above
50 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
On the PA press conference of 19 legislators suggesting an audit, delay & possible elector swap (Original Post) hlthe2b Nov 2020 OP
bluster. they canNOT change who selects the electors. Laws must be changed BEFORE an election Roland99 Nov 2020 #1
This is what Pendejo45 is pushing ... aggiesal Nov 2020 #41
100% impossible to change election law AFTER an election Roland99 Nov 2020 #42
I'm not arguing with you. I agree with you. I'm just telling you that Pendejo45 is acting ... aggiesal Nov 2020 #49
0-12 means they have an awesome legal team Roland99 Nov 2020 #50
More worry from the cringing sector of dems Fullduplexxx Nov 2020 #2
Maybe it's better to be vigilant than Mike 03 Nov 2020 #3
This shit is damaging whether they can pull it off or not. TDale313 Nov 2020 #4
Great point. All of these assaults on this election, whether they Mike 03 Nov 2020 #5
probably true -- but also, no surprise at all stopdiggin Nov 2020 #39
These people are commiting treason pennylane100 Nov 2020 #46
these 19 state reps should be tried for treason? stopdiggin Nov 2020 #48
Dems react like a victim of abuse, for good reason! Blaukraut Nov 2020 #8
Exactly right. klook Nov 2020 #15
This message was self-deleted by its author stillcool Nov 2020 #12
"No one could have foreseen..." dchill Nov 2020 #21
the certification of the election is between the governor and the secretary of the commonwealth Skraxx Nov 2020 #6
Way too few of them to do anything Kaleva Nov 2020 #7
More Politico spin. PA gop majority leader says they will NOT overrule the popular vote..PERIOD Thekaspervote Nov 2020 #9
This, 19 of 253 only means PA has crazy Trumpers and out legislature is too big Amishman Nov 2020 #10
TY..and yes it all sounds familiar. Thekaspervote Nov 2020 #19
Ultimately, I believe this the case. But it was from Nov 6, right after losing a court challenge hlthe2b Nov 2020 #11
This from 5 days ago Thekaspervote Nov 2020 #23
He has called for an audit, though hlthe2b Nov 2020 #27
Yawn... brooklynite Nov 2020 #13
You know this for sure? Sugarcoated Nov 2020 #14
The PA state legislature does NOT have a veto-proof majority. Democrats took care of that in 2018. BumRushDaShow Nov 2020 #16
Yeah, I know all this Sugarcoated Nov 2020 #24
Score points with MAGAts. Statistical Nov 2020 #33
To cause chaos and confusion and rile up the base BumRushDaShow Nov 2020 #34
100% pretty much point by point (nt) stopdiggin Nov 2020 #40
I don't think it is to help Trump. LiberalArkie Nov 2020 #17
Interesting take. Still, it should take more than 19 to do this. flibbitygiblets Nov 2020 #22
They are executing the plan for a coup. infullview Nov 2020 #18
Please stop!! This is shear conspiracy Thekaspervote Nov 2020 #20
It is a four-step plan literlly created by that OP obamanut2012 Nov 2020 #28
Excuse me, obamanut2012. The article I posted is disputing this happening and attempting hlthe2b Nov 2020 #32
No. The article clearly shows why this will NOT happen hlthe2b Nov 2020 #29
I think they were refering to this -- BumRushDaShow Nov 2020 #37
Lol Trump's lawyer just told a PA judge there was no evidence of fraud grantcart Nov 2020 #36
Funny how they all had confidence in PA in 2016, but not 2020? apnu Nov 2020 #25
It's the same death cult and propaganda machine we've seen attacking democracy 4 years now. Hermit-The-Prog Nov 2020 #26
I would opine that this is much more reflective of the radical trumpite wing of the RePutinican NoMoreRepugs Nov 2020 #30
Somewhat comforting that so few attended DrToast Nov 2020 #31
Goes to show just how they'd change our form of government Historic NY Nov 2020 #35
They can go fuck themselves. njhoneybadger Nov 2020 #38
Thanks for posting Holly's... JoeOtterbein Nov 2020 #43
What are their names and on what streets do they live? Kid Berwyn Nov 2020 #44
This is to needle Governor Wolf, I believe FakeNoose Nov 2020 #45
I'm tired of the stress and anxiety Politicub Nov 2020 #47

aggiesal

(8,910 posts)
41. This is what Pendejo45 is pushing ...
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 04:08 PM
Nov 2020

He wants ALL the lame duck State Representatives to change the law, in their state, prior to Dec 7th (I believe?), so that they can change the electors to yes-man for Pendejo45.

They know they can't change the outcome of the election, but they're going to try.

Roland99

(53,342 posts)
42. 100% impossible to change election law AFTER an election
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 04:14 PM
Nov 2020

their only avenue is to somehow prove systemic fraud or misconduct and then declare the entire election void


absurd

aggiesal

(8,910 posts)
49. I'm not arguing with you. I agree with you. I'm just telling you that Pendejo45 is acting ...
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 05:01 PM
Nov 2020

like the pendejo that he is, and that his pendejo minions are following.

They will try to change their laws, but will lose in court.

Roland99

(53,342 posts)
50. 0-12 means they have an awesome legal team
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 05:03 PM
Nov 2020

and by awesome, I meant horrible, seditious and easily bribed

Fullduplexxx

(7,852 posts)
2. More worry from the cringing sector of dems
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 01:35 PM
Nov 2020

Oh no... this very good thing that happened is very bad ... something very bad is coming from this good news... why do dems do this ?

“It’s not going anywhere in the Senate,” said Christopher Nicholas, a longtime Pennsylvania-based GOP consultant, of the direct appointment of electors by the legislature. “I think those 19 folks had an itch to scratch. They just scratched it. I think that’s kind of the end of it.”

Mike 03

(16,616 posts)
3. Maybe it's better to be vigilant than
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 01:42 PM
Nov 2020

to end up being a sucker who bemoans what just happened to their democracy, whining, "Gee, I wish I had paid better attention to what was going on."

TDale313

(7,820 posts)
4. This shit is damaging whether they can pull it off or not.
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 01:43 PM
Nov 2020

This level of undermining confidence in our democratic systems and attempted raw power grabs should be cause for concern. This is not normal.

Mike 03

(16,616 posts)
5. Great point. All of these assaults on this election, whether they
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 01:44 PM
Nov 2020

bear fruit or not, are incredibly destructive.

stopdiggin

(11,292 posts)
39. probably true -- but also, no surprise at all
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 03:56 PM
Nov 2020

(refusal to accept results was forewarned, in fact advertised)

And -- as the OP points out, this sad little stunt was almost immediately dismissed as of little or no consequence. So, yes, the damage is inherent -- but there is also no profit in lending weight and legitimacy to these stunts -- by breathlessly following every twist and turn of the defeated jackhammers. These morons haven't even managed to convince their own party leadership to lend support! So, let them have their little 5 second soundbite -- and then everyone can go back to raking leaves and other more important pursuits.

i.e. -- don't feed the flames.

pennylane100

(3,425 posts)
46. These people are commiting treason
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 04:25 PM
Nov 2020

and should be tried for it. I know that Biden seemed to be handling it.
However the fact that Trump is behind it should it all is criminal and he should be removed immediately and charged for starting it. It is mind boggling that he thinks he can get away from it.

stopdiggin

(11,292 posts)
48. these 19 state reps should be tried for treason?
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 04:33 PM
Nov 2020

I'm hoping that your response was meant to be somewhat generic. But, even in that context ... That's cranking the decibels up pretty high.
----- --- -----

Blaukraut

(5,693 posts)
8. Dems react like a victim of abuse, for good reason!
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 01:49 PM
Nov 2020

We have been subject to this abuse by Republicans for decades now. A person in an abusive relationship learns to flinch when the abusive partner so much as lifts a hand toward them.

klook

(12,154 posts)
15. Exactly right.
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 02:28 PM
Nov 2020

We all have ITSD -- intra-traumatic stress disorder (no idea if that's actually a thing or not, but the concept fits). Looking forward to the day it's merely PTSD.

Response to Fullduplexxx (Reply #2)

Skraxx

(2,970 posts)
6. the certification of the election is between the governor and the secretary of the commonwealth
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 01:45 PM
Nov 2020

So, let them whine all they want. The Dem and Secretary are Dems and will not stand for any shenanigans.

Amishman

(5,554 posts)
10. This, 19 of 253 only means PA has crazy Trumpers and out legislature is too big
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 01:52 PM
Nov 2020

19 can't do anything. 109 still couldn't.

This is a small minority in PA's state government that is just being obnoxiously loud. Sound familiar?

hlthe2b

(102,200 posts)
11. Ultimately, I believe this the case. But it was from Nov 6, right after losing a court challenge
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 02:06 PM
Nov 2020

and before the R Senate Leader began to backtrack on his earlier statement that PA legislature would stay out of it.

I still think this is posturing and/or floating a balloon to see how many shoot it down, but we can't ignore some support doing something along these lines--apparently including the likes of Lindsey Graham--Chair of Senate Judiciary Committee.

Thekaspervote

(32,751 posts)
23. This from 5 days ago
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 02:51 PM
Nov 2020

On Friday, State Senate majority leader Jake Corman said Republicans will honor the wishes of the voters.

“Our role is to monitor the process, our role is to provide oversight and call out questions where they might need asked, but certainly want to stay with the tradition of the popular vote winner getting the electors,” Senator Corman said.

Corman says the vote is certified by the state and the governor appoints the electors.

He says the legislature will follow the law.





https://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2020/11/10/pa-electoral-college-popular-vote/

hlthe2b

(102,200 posts)
27. He has called for an audit, though
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 02:56 PM
Nov 2020

Nov 9 https://local21news.com/news/local/gop-members-of-pennsylvania-house-call-for-audit-of-pending-2020-election-results

On Monday, House Speaker Bryan Cutler (R-Lancaster) and House Majority Leader Jake Corman (R-Centre) called on Governor Tom Wolf to audit the pending results and ballots continue to be counted across the state.


I only say this to point out that PA DEMS need to keep pressure on him as well.

brooklynite

(94,489 posts)
13. Yawn...
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 02:19 PM
Nov 2020

A handful of Republican State Legislators. Not a majority of the House and Senate to pass an actual law change, and not 2/3 necessary to override Governor Wolf's veto.

BumRushDaShow

(128,748 posts)
16. The PA state legislature does NOT have a veto-proof majority. Democrats took care of that in 2018.
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 02:35 PM
Nov 2020

And the Governor is a Democrat. PLUS the PA State Supreme Court is majority Democrat - 5(D) - 2 (R).

Statistical

(19,264 posts)
33. Score points with MAGAts.
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 03:11 PM
Nov 2020

The 19 are in super red districts. By looking like they are "doing something" they score easy points with MAGAts and ensure no primary challengers in two years.

BumRushDaShow

(128,748 posts)
34. To cause chaos and confusion and rile up the base
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 03:19 PM
Nov 2020

while triggering DU to freak out like it has?

Don't get me wrong, I am concerned about the complete jettison of conventional traditions but in the far back of my mind I realize that there is a confluence of true evil fascists operating in the background and someone who has spent 4 years "playing a President on teevee" in the foreground begging for attention.

I also know that the very very wealthy (the real ones, not the fake one in the WH) are watching because if this country gets truly destabilized, then they lose money in the markets. We may be "global" but there is also a massive pandemic going on too that is throwing a wrench in the global markets as it is.

Remember that $$$ rules all and as much as DU posts about "the 1%", the "1%" doesn't like "uncertainty".

LiberalArkie

(15,708 posts)
17. I don't think it is to help Trump.
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 02:35 PM
Nov 2020

If they can void just a few votes for Ossoff and Warnock to where the Rs have their 50% then the R's hold on to the senate.

infullview

(978 posts)
18. They are executing the plan for a coup.
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 02:39 PM
Nov 2020

This is exactly what they are going to try in GA. Did you all see that post from this morning on the 4 step plan? Thay're actually doing exactly this step by step - right down to suggesting a new set of electors.

obamanut2012

(26,064 posts)
28. It is a four-step plan literlly created by that OP
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 02:57 PM
Nov 2020

Nothing else.

I can write the same opinion OP on the four steps of why it won't happen.

hlthe2b

(102,200 posts)
32. Excuse me, obamanut2012. The article I posted is disputing this happening and attempting
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 03:06 PM
Nov 2020

to counter the concern. I posted the OP and I most certainly DID NOT CREATE ANY 4-step plan.

I even highlighted the pertinent counter-arguments in the politico article for those who might not bother to read either it OR MY POST. Kindly STOP suggesting I am doing the opposite of what I AM doing--trying to reassure my fellow DUers.

BumRushDaShow

(128,748 posts)
37. I think they were refering to this --
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 03:32 PM
Nov 2020
https://democraticunderground.com/100214528992

(where your OP links to a better analysis)

And as a note, David Thornburgh, who I believe is who is being referenced in your excerpt (and is head of the Philly Committee of Seventy that monitors elections), is the son of Dick Thornburgh (a moderate Republican ).

grantcart

(53,061 posts)
36. Lol Trump's lawyer just told a PA judge there was no evidence of fraud
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 03:24 PM
Nov 2020

No coup, no execution just bluster an 3rd class PR nonsense.

apnu

(8,751 posts)
25. Funny how they all had confidence in PA in 2016, but not 2020?
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 02:53 PM
Nov 2020

Now that the roles are reversed? Trump won PA in 2016 by 44,292 votes which is 0.72% margin. Biden is 47K up on Trump in PA right now.

NoMoreRepugs

(9,401 posts)
30. I would opine that this is much more reflective of the radical trumpite wing of the RePutinican
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 03:00 PM
Nov 2020

party scratching at the blackboard trying to be heard - as well as a shout out to the hard core Deplorables.

Historic NY

(37,449 posts)
35. Goes to show just how they'd change our form of government
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 03:20 PM
Nov 2020

in an instant if they are talking about this.

FakeNoose

(32,620 posts)
45. This is to needle Governor Wolf, I believe
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 04:24 PM
Nov 2020

They'll bring any bluff or bluster to get Tom Wolf riled, however they can.

I don't see any sign that they did this for Chump or because of the mess in Georgia, this is Pennsylvania insiders only. Now that they've had their little say, it's over.



Politicub

(12,165 posts)
47. I'm tired of the stress and anxiety
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 04:29 PM
Nov 2020

I am disgusted this president and hate those who are pushing the concern narrative.

And, I’m also livid about people who are not facilitating a peaceful transfer of power.

It’s wearing me down. Just returned from buying groceries and now see that this happened in PA. It probably won’t amount to anything, other than making it harder for Biden to bring us together. Doubt is their goal.

The GOP is a pit of snakes.

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