You know, when I was a kid in the early 1960's

[PCIntern]

I took an IQ test, and I actually read up on it and was impressed by the fact that the mean for the USA was defined as 100. I immediately filed away in my brain that that meant that half of Americans had a two-digit IQ. Something to think about

Anyway, paranoid insanity is not limited to “low-intelligence” individuals. For years I had a high-functioning employee who knew that there was a hidden sun behind Jupiter, and the solar system belonging to that sun is where all the aliens come from on Earth. She had been imparted this “knowledge” by several reliable sources including but not limited to, a top official at the Pentagon. One day, while she was breathlessly telling me more details, I remarked: why would a general of the US Army risk his career, and from what you say, his life and the lives of his family, by telling a dental office administrator? It stopped her in her tracks...for about eight seconds. Undaunted, she continued on with her story.

And yes, she was a Trump voter as were three of my 10 employees.

[captain queeg]

1. And Planet X is making its way into our solar system.

Heard from “credible” sources.

[PCIntern]

5. Oooh!!!! Tell me more!!!

I knew it! I just knew it!!

[Layzeebeaver]

18. Yes it must be true...

Otherwise Hollywood would not have produced so many B movies on this and other highly related and intellectual subjects.

PROOF!!!

[packman]

35. Didn't yah kno - the Nazi's have a secret base on the moon

And here's proof

[LakeVermilion]

3. I'm so old,

that I remember a time when Republicans railed against frivolous lawsuits.

Now they stand for everything and they stand for nothing. Just opposition windbags.

[LiberalLoner]

8. The party of "nuh uh" and that's about it.

[niyad]

25. I am that old as well. But then, some of what they labeled "frivolous" were seen as attacks on

their precious corporations. The "Hot Coffee" one comes to mind. Did you ever see that documentary?

[LakeVermilion]

55. I remember reading about the issue.

[niyad]

57. If you get a chance, watch that documentary. Very disturbing how the facts were twisted.

[PatSeg]

46. Yeah

It would seem that today republicans are for everything they used to be against. It must really be hard for them to keep up.

[MaryMagdaline]

4. Common sense is not common

They live amongst us

[TexasBushwhacker]

6. Yeah, they say 2/3 of the population scores berween 85 and 115

But is there a significant difference between 85 and 115? Hell yes!' That leaves 1/6 (16.67,%) scoring BELOW 85 and that"s MILLONS of people.

[Siwsan]

7. You've made me flash back to a middle school memory

I went to a parochial school and was designated one of the students to be on hand to assist the teacher. One day she was interrupted by the 'Mother Superior', while taking attendance so she handed the grade book to me so I could finish.

I immediately noticed the column labeled 'IQ' running parallel to the names. Of course my eyes darted to my name, and saw the number, but on the way down the list the number next to my best friend's name caught my eye, and not in a good way. (Admittedly, I had NO idea of the real significance of those numbers - but I knew that my friend's number being so low was probably not a good thing.)

I realize that there are things that can affect how one tests, on any given day, but I always thought it so irresponsible for that nun to hand me that info. Perhaps she didn't realize that my number might also indicate an intense curiosity.

(Sorry for the weird segue. I find my impulse control suffers during pandemics.)

[PCIntern]

9. That's a great story/vignette

Last edited Wed Nov 18, 2020, 11:18 AM - Edit history (1)

It’s how our lives are shaped...these serendipitous moments.

[LittleGirl]

21. I have those too.

I call them moments of clarity.

[niyad]

27. Thank you for sharing this. The nuns used to get upset with me. Asked too many questions!

[Siwsan]

47. The funny thing was, this nun didn't particularly like me, but the Mother Superior did.

The nuns at this school were pretty solidly Irish Americans and highly favored the Irish American students - a number of who's parents were physicians and General Motors executive types. Then there was me - Welsh American with a Dad who was a teacher/coach/athletic director at the local public high school. I wasn't quite in the 'untouchable' caste, but not that far out of it, either.

I never did figure out why Mother Adeline liked me, so much, but she likely saved me from the wrath of Sister Patricia. I met up with a former classmate at the 50th anniversary party for this parish, and while we were catching up someone mentioned that Sister Patricia just walked in. My friend looked at me and said "The hair on the back of my neck just went up. How about you?" We both just anxiously looked around and then burst into laughter. We then proceeded to avoid running into her.

[Dream Girl]

45. That's how I found out my IQ, snooped through my six grade teacher's grade book while she was out

Out of the room.

[Siwsan]

50. I actually had to be tested twice due to a 'touch' of dyslexia

The first score was so alarming, they called my parents to the school. They decided something was 'amiss' and to test me, one more time. I was alone in a room with NO distractions. Apparently I did much better because I definitely scored above average. That's another one of those sharp memories because I clearly recall how confused I was the first time I took that test.

My biggest problem was, and still is, numbers. I am a fast reader and know when I'm reading something if it just doesn't make sense so I go back and read it again. Well, and sometimes again, again. However, when it comes to numbers, I have NO idea if I'm transposing. I pretty much have to go REALLY SLOW and quadruple check sums. Math has always been my educational Achilles Heel.

[PatSeg]

48. That is disturbing in so many ways

That means that teachers were automatically making assumptions about every student before they even opened their mouth. There's nothing quite like tagging children young.

[Hestia]

54. Do you remember taking the tests? I do - in the 7th grade, they had us to go the cafeteria

and we took these tests where you fill in the answer bubble. One I particularly remember is finish the sequence of sets of ovals. I only found out when I was like 26-30 what those tests were. I remember that I guess were grad students handing out the tests and watching over us. So boooorring...

I guess "they" were trying to copy Finland (best schools in the world), where you take tests in 8th grade where you are tested on aptitude and the best job skills according to your ability and the rest of your middle & high school education is steered in that direction. Not everyone goes to paid for college based on the test results. I don't think there is really any way to move up from tech school to college level. The tests are supposed to be more egalitarian, in that, the results have nothing to do with who your parents are or how much they make unless they want to pay for private college.

[Siwsan]

56. I do - see #50 - the tale of why I had to take the test TWICE

I can so clearly remember getting WAY off track and confused, the first time I took the test. It was a disaster.

[MyMission]

66. I remember yearly achievement or assessment tests, but

I don't remember taking an IQ test. One was probably administered when I was very young, in the mid 60's. Or these yearly tests I remember we're some form of an IQ test.

I was in a top school district in NYC, and our end of year standardized tests would report what grade level we were functioning at. I always thought that was how they identified the smart kids. Maybe it was some kind of IQ test, or they derived an IQ from it.

At my public grade school, we actually had 2 IGC classrooms per grade, which is intellectually gifted children, and 2 regular classrooms, and 1 special Ed, from the early grades. Rarely we'd get a new student from a regular class who had done very well, or an IGC kid would not make IGC the next year. We also had several kids of color who were bussed to our school to attend the IGC program. After reading this post, I assume they tested well and were sent to the top school to give them more opportunities.

In the 80's, when I was in my 20's, I had an IQ test given to me by a friend who was a grad student in psychology. I don't recall being administered that test as a child. But clearly, I was put into the IGC program in grade school so they probably measured me when I was younger. I think the yearly tests to measure our grade level we're in lieu of IQ tests, but who knows. We were smart kids.

When I was in 6th grade, my teacher and the other IGC teacher took small groups of us to visit 5 Ivy league colleges, to inspire us. My group went to visit Princeton, others to Yale, U Penn, Columbia. After grade school, from the IGC, we could do the 2 or 3 year SP, special program for junior high. It offered accelerated study, completing grades 7,8+9 in 2 years, which is what I did. The 3 year offered enrichment over the 3 years, class trips, independent study, etc. At the end of Jr high, a select group of us were offered the opportunity to take a test to see if we could earn a place at Hunter college high school. Not sure how they decided who to offer the test to. I always thought it was based on grades and standardized tests, never thought of IQ back then.

[Hestia]

67. That would be so cool to visit those colleges/universities at such a young age

Give you some real impetus to finish HS at fast rate. There were a couple of freshman in HS who took accelerated classes like that and graduated HS as Jr's, while also earning college credits. Of course, now, I wish I done something like that but of course found out afterwards our HS offered a program like that.

[cachukis]

10. Dunning Kreuger.

[LittleGirl]

22. Thank you for that video

I have studied it but couldn’t explain it. Now, I can!
Thanks!

[PatSeg]

49. That video was excellent

Thank you!

[nuxvomica]

11. Stupidity is not the lack of intelligence but the disrespect for it

That's what the nuns used to tell us in grade school. My brother has struggled with learning all his life so there's no one who has more respect for it than him as he realizes it is hard work to get things right. He accepts that COVID is real and abides by the restrictions because smart, kind people on the TV tell him so. He also recognizes Trump for what he is because Trump acts like a whiny baby. My brother is pretty much a genius at understanding people though he never seems to brag about it. Many "smart" people lack that kind of intelligence.

[kcr]

15. Truth

I would rec this post if it were an OP.

[twodogsbarking]

16. Nuns

made fun of the "slow" kids.

[niyad]

29. I got in trouble once for telling a nun not to do that, that she was being horrible., maybe

Scarring the child for life. Even in fourth grade, I knew that wasn't right.

[keithbvadu2]

17. is not - Good one!

Don't most people consider themselves 'above average'?

[lagomorph777]

12. Well, if you have to make any cuts due to Trump's Plague,

you know where to start.

[4Q2u2]

13. IQ Test are not useful at all

They were perverted by Dr. Eugene Goddard for his Eugenics
research and used to promote racism and population control.

Nothing scientific about them at all.

[PCIntern]

14. Yeah

I’m not debating the validity of the test. I’m speaking historically. And there is a correlation, the question is: how strong a correlation.

[wcollar]

20. Two things to add on IQ Tests

I remember (from many years ago) a psychology professor I had describe IQ tests as being an excellent measure of a persons ability to take IQ tests.

On the other hand one of my favorite obscure insults is to tell someone that they are on the rising side of the bell curve for IQ.

[LittleGirl]

23. Lol. That's brilliant! eom

[niyad]

30. Thank you! For the chuckle, and for the insult! ROB the little dears!

My favourite came from some mystery I read many years ago. "If his IQ were three points higher, he would be lint."

[2naSalit]

44. He!

One of my favorites is: "That individual can be found with an IQ to left of zero on a number line."

And in some circles, shortened to: An individual with a negative IQ.

I don't use them much except when referring to anyone with the name t*&$p, whom I avoid bringing up in conversation.

[plimsoll]

26. Key point in your statement is perverted.

Any technology can be put to evil use, I don’t want to get too philosophical, but the tools become a reflection of their users. IQ tests have their uses, but we have chosen to use it as a proxy for any number of other things.

What I observe is that a high IQ is not a good reflection of initiative or application of that intelligence. Many smart people are obviously easily misled by a good story. As a species we’re not well suited to dealing with a complex universe. People who grasp the flaws in out mental models can easily mislead us. People who point out the manipulation have to battle the flaw in the mental model and the exploitation.

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

40. Stephen Gay Gould wrote a book about IQ testing,

The Mismeasure of Man. In it, he argues that a single number to measure intelligence is meaningless. Both my wife and I have graduate degrees from Harvard (where, incidentally, I took a class from Gould), and we are both intelligent by any measure. However, Suzanne tried taking a computer programming class, and she was simply unable to do it. Her mind doesn't work that way.

Gould also wrote about fraudulent ways that intelligence measurements have been done and used. Gould specifically mentioned a British psychologist, Sir Cyril Burt, who made a study of twins raised apart, which he used to bolster his idea that intelligence is a product of nature, not nurture. Burt was shown to have faked his data.

[4Q2u2]

42. Case in Point

I never read in the Boston Globe about anybody from
Allston or Brighton falling thru the ice on the Charles,
but guess who used to do it all the time, when the World was actually cold.

[marble falls]

19. Smart people have lunatic ideas, too.

[MineralMan]

24. I saw the results of an IQ test I took while in high school.

I ran across my school records in a filing cabinet in my band director's office. So, I looked at them, just to see what was in those records.

i remember thinking, after seeing the number, that I must be pretty darned smart, but then I thought a bit more and decided that a mere number didn't mean all that much, and that it was what I accomplished that was a better measure. I knew the number, but it didn't really tell me very much at all.

What was i doing in my band director's filing cabinet? Well, he had just made me the drum major for the band and told me to look in that cabinet for some books and other information on half-time shows. There were school records of all the students in his classes in that cabinet. I looked only at mine.

What was my IQ? Well, I have never shared that number with anyone, and will continue not to share it with anyone. The number is meaningless. Who I am and what I do are the only things that matter.

[StClone]

33. Let me guess

It was above stable genius level.

[wcollar]

34. I always figured "Stable Genius Level"

Was somewhere around room temperature.

[MineralMan]

37. Another thing I realized after seeing the score

was that the school was using those scores to categorize students and lump them into groups, based only on that number. it was a common practice back in the 50s and 60s, when i was an elementary and secondary school student. Even then, I recognized that as a flawed idea that adversely affected many, many students.

It was another point of privilege for some, even though they didn't know that they were receiving privileged treatment.

Further, there was no justifiable reason for individual teachers to have that information in the limited records they had on students in their classes. It set up biases for the teachers that affected how they treated individual students. IQ scores are not a proper way to rank schoolchildren.

I remember the test, actually, that we took. It was very language-oriented. In our schools, at least a third of the students had Spanish as their first language. Non-native speakers of English would have had a serious disadvantage in taking the test that was used.

In some ways, finding that score in my teacher's records was my first realization that artificial biases were in play in the educational system. That led me to look for other ways biases affected how people were treated. Those ways were surprisingly easy to find.

[FakeNoose]

60. The "IQ" result is divided by your age

However many right answers you got at age 10, for example, would be divided by your age to provide the IQ quotient. So take the same test at 30, are you going to get 3 times as many correct answers? Probably not. But the number of right answers will still be divided by your age and your "IQ" goes down accordingly. Our intelligence/knowledge didn't decrease, but our "IQ" did decrease, compared to the age 10 score.

So this is proof that the entire concept is bogus, people's intelligence doesn't decrease just because we are years older. It increases continually to a certain point, before dementia or forgetfulness sets in. The scores are skewed for a number of reasons that you mention, plus I would say the biggest reason is that IQ tests in no way measure a person's creativity. To me creativity is the x-factor of intelligence, and IQ tests don't even address creativity.

I'm glad they did away with those tests before my son entered grade school in the mid-1970's.

[MineralMan]

62. I'm in no way defending IQ testing.

In fact, I'm in opposition to it for school children, since results are so often misused.

As for scoring and age, I've had to take IQ tests a number of times during my life for various reasons. My score has never changed more than a few points one way or another.

I think they are ridiculous, to tell you the truth, partly for the reasons you offer regarding things like creativity not being testable.

[Lonestarblue]

28. I wonder whether Bigfoot voted for Trump or Biden!

[panader0]

52. He told me that he voted for Biden because of his environmental policies.

[AllaN01Bear]

31. ohm myy. eeek, ah isnt the stuff the general spouting "classified "

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

32. I'm surprised that no one has mentioned George Carlin, who said,

"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that."

[Archae]

36. Decades ago, I knew a guy at a job...

Heck, I don't even remember now what the job was, but one of the higher-ranking guys there was a guy who was rather bright, and a hard worker and pretty normal.

EXCEPT...

He was a true believer in Santa Claus.

North Pole workshop, flying reindeer, the works.

Because "He saw the sled fly off his roof."

And he insisted it was not just a crazy vivid dream he had.

[PCIntern]

41. That's A terrific story

I can see it in my head, having someone tell me that or the equivalent....

Wait...you mean he doesn’t exist????

😢

[Archae]

43. The worst part is nowadays...

There are people out there who STILL believe with all their might, that Barack Obama was born in Kenya, that the Nazis didn't do anything wrong, there were no astronauts on the moon, that Bill and/or Hillary Clinton had dozens of people killed, or that Donald Trump won this year's election.

[liberalmuse]

38. Willful ignorance is a thing, too (aka "head up ass" syndrome)

I've always liked this quote:

“Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.”

― George Carlin

[Historic NY]

39. In the old days before computers...

A person would tell this fantastic story...

Me something doesn't sound quite right.

Think about that for a minute.

That doesn't make sense.

Wait a minute.

Tell me that again.

Well that sounds odd.

Come on that really a stupid idea.


Today Google it....

They then find millions that think the same.

We used to sit around and read Weekly World News Headlines and laugh. The Q of its time.

Walk away, walk away...there is no dealing with these people.

[BobTheSubgenius]

51. And yet....still not as wacky as Scientology.

And there are tens of thousands of them.

[Hestia]

53. I used to belong to a DVD Club

and one of the offerings of the month was a documentary from astronomers stating that stars have a twin, which is the norm, and a singular star like ours is an outlier. According to these astronomers, ours is a Brown Dwarf Star, that lies somewhere out beyond Pluto and they can tell that we do have one is the pull of the twin on the orbits of the outer lying planets of our system.

Things that make you go hmm...

Had nothing about aliens in it though...that might have been entertaining but this was a documentary club, not science fiction.

==
I was a cool club, one documentary was regarding Sikh beliefs. I quit because they went from professional DVD's to home copied DVD's that wouldn't play, with the titles handwritten in a sharpie. WTH? I am not paying for that.

[marie999]

58. I don't trust test to see how smart we are.

I test far beyond my intelligence, that is why I was given the job I had in the army. In high school, I took an IQ test and scored 127. That is about 20 points higher than I would say was my actual intelligence compared to the norm. In high school and in college I received high grades because of my ability to test well, not because of the actual work I did.

[PCIntern]

59. Or...

You may be a lot smarter than you think. 😄

[marie999]

61. I don't think so.

The army gave me training because of my pre-enlistment test scores. A colonel flew up from Washington to meet me. When I enlisted on a Friday, everyone but I marched to the train depot to go to boot training. I went into the orderly room to pick up my 3-day pass and a plane ticket. I did okay in training, but I was below average doing my job. That is the reason I did not reenlist. If I had been better at my job I would have made the army my career. In my job, you retired after 20 years. You then worked as a civilian for 10 years and retired because your 20 in the army was counted towards your retirement. Some even worked at a different agency for another 10 years and ended up receiving army retirement and 2 full retirements as a civilian at the age of 58. It is called triple dipping. In today's money that is about $250,000/year.

[PCIntern]

63. I do understand your point

Some people who test poorly are brilliant in their chosen careers. It is certainly not a guaranteed predictor of anything.

[marie999]

64. Unfortunately, now the schools teach so students do well on the year end tests.

That is why we do so badly compared to other countries.

[PCIntern]

65. That is quite true

“Teach to the test” is the motto.