Pardons for yourself, and others will not stand,

[duforsure]

If a President is also involved with the crimes, I think, and trumps attempt to pardon his way out of going to jail will fail, I think. trump will have accountability for his crimes, like conspiring to commit election fraud. If not, we'll have criminals running for the position from now on.

[Ferrets are Cool]

1. Even if a pardon is arguably an abuse of presidential power, there's currently no clear way to undo

the pardon itself.

[duforsure]

2. Couldn't a ruling by the Supreme Court overturn them?

As unconstitutional.

[jimfields33]

3. No. Pardons are absolute.

Whoever trump pardons will be free from federal crimes. Pardoning himself may be the only question as it’s not directly stated in the constitution.

[jimfields33]

6. Totally going to happen

I still worry about juries though. We have to keep around 73 million off the jury for these trials. Not easy to do.

[PoliticAverse]

8. "Pardoning yourself, probably holds up." - I believe a self-pardon would be overturned 9-0. n/t

[PTWB]

14. What line in the constitution appears to restrict the pardon power?

The only restriction is in cases of impeachment - a pardon cannot restore someone to their position when they’ve been impeached and removed.

[PoliticAverse]

18. "Under the fundamental rule that no one may be a judge in his own case,

the President cannot pardon himself,”

From: https://www.justice.gov/file/20856/download

It's an open legal question as the Supreme Court has not ruled on it, but I don't believe the framers of the Constitution intended to give a President the power to pardon his or her self.

[PTWB]

23. While I agree that it was unlikely intended...

to allow the President to pardon himself, much of what was intended by the writers is completely at odds with the reality of the subsequent interpretations. We have a court full of self-proclaimed “originalists” and “textualists” (when it suits them). There’s absolutely no telling how they’d interpret the passage and the ancient DOJ opinion isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on. It was crafted in another era with different rules and a different society.

I give Trump better than 50/50 odds that a self pardon holds. It’s certainly not guaranteed but it isn’t a pipe dream at all.

[Statistical]

12. Of course you don't want to pardon co-conspirators.

Once pardoned they have no 5th amendment protection against being compelled to testify on the conspiracy. They can be compelled to testify and thrown in jail indefinitely on contempt charges if they don't. 5th amendment protections no longer apply because they can't incriminate themselves due to the pardon.

Prosecutors have used this tactic in mob and other large criminal conspiracies. Giving one person forced immunity even if they don't want it to remove 5th amendment protections to bring down the rest of the crime syndicate.

[Solomon]

15. Yeah but what about if the same testimony would also incriminate you on a state charge? In that

case you can still plead the 5th.

[Statistical]

16. That is true. However it would weaken Trump's protect at the very least

to pardon his co-conspirators.

[ProudMNDemocrat]

4. Pardons are nothing more than an ACCEPTANCE of GUILT...

Trump has declared many a time that he is GUILTY of NOTHING. He will only be contradicting himself.

[Demsrule86]

7. No, a presidents ability to pardon people including I think himself...is

without limitations.

[Statistical]

13. Nearly unlimited.

While untested it is very likely a self pardon will not stand. Also the President can only pardon people of federal crimes. Beyond that though the power is incredibly broad.

[Demsrule86]

26. I assumed federal charges...but I think given our courts, he will be allowed to pardon himself.

[Statistical]

29. It would make all future Presidents to include Democratic ones completely above the (federal) law

No rightwinger would ever vote for that.

[Sneederbunk]

11. He will play it safe, resign, and have Pence pardon him.

He will probably pardon Pence before he resigns.

[PoliticAverse]

20. He doesn't have to resign he could just invoke the temporary provision of the 25th Amendment...

allowing Pence to be President temporarily with power to pardon Trump.

From: https://www.justice.gov/file/20856/download

3.A different approach to the pardoning problem could be taken under Sec-tion3 of the Twenty-Fifth Amendment. If the President declared that he was temporarily unable to perform the duties of his office, the Vice President would become Acting President and as such he could pardon the President. Thereafter the President could either resign or resume the duties of his office

[Gothmog]

17. No, Trump can't pardon himself. The Constitution tells us so.

From Prof. Tribe and others https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/no-trump-cant-pardon-himself-the-constitution-tells-us-so/2017/07/21/f3445d74-6e49-11e7-b9e2-2056e768a7e5_story.html?utm_term=.a066d8b411f4

Can a president pardon himself? Four days before Richard Nixon resigned, his own Justice Department’s Office of Legal Counsel opined no, citing “the fundamental rule that no one may be a judge in his own case.” We agree.

The Justice Department was right that guidance could be found in the enduring principles that no one can be both the judge and the defendant in the same matter, and that no one is above the law.

The Constitution specifically bars the president from using the pardon power to prevent his own impeachment and removal. It adds that any official removed through impeachment remains fully subject to criminal prosecution. That provision would make no sense if the president could pardon himself.

The pardon provision of the Constitution is there to enable the president to act essentially in the role of a judge of another person’s criminal case, and to intervene on behalf of the defendant when the president determines that would be equitable. For example, the president might believe the courts made the wrong decision about someone’s guilt or about sentencing; President Barack Obama felt this way about excessive sentences for low-level drug offenses. Or the president might be impressed by the defendant’s subsequent conduct and, using powers far exceeding those of a parole board, might issue a pardon or commutation of sentence.....

President Trump thinks he can do a lot of things just because he is president. He says that the president can act as if he has no conflicts of interest. He says that he can fire the FBI director for any reason he wants (and he admitted to the most outrageous of reasons in interviews and in discussion with the Russian ambassador). In one sense, Trump is right — he can do all of these things, although there will be legal repercussions if he does. Using official powers for corrupt purposes — such as impeding or obstructing an investigation — can constitute a crime.

But there is one thing we know that Trump cannot do — without being a first in all of human history. He cannot pardon himself.

[Demsrule86]

27. I know you are correct. He should not be allowed to pardon himself. but given the makeup of

SCOTUS, I think he will be allowed to do so.

[diva77]

19. Well, TBH, he should have pardoned himself at the NATO summit, 2017 when he shoved people out of the

way

[spanone]

21. That 'incident' showed what a complete asshole the man is.

[diva77]

22. Absolutely!!!

[Arne]

24. The part of these discussions that I don't understand

is that this president Has been impeached.
That should play in some how.

[PoliticAverse]

25. Trump (like Clinton) was acquitted and so doesn't lose any presidential powers. n/t

[Arne]

28. I didn't realize he was acquitted

I just thought he was Not Removed.