If Your God ...

[NanceGreggs]

If your God is all-knowing, surely he knew that Biden would win the election – so why did he do nothing to keep that from happening?

If your God controls the universe, why couldn’t he ensure that Trump would be re-elected – and by a landslide, just to make it absolutely clear that he wanted his alleged ‘chosen one’ to be in the WH for another four years?

If your God is all-powerful, why was his will so easily thwarted? Why was he too weak to overcome the will of the majority of the American people? I’m thinking that having created heaven and earth in less than a week, flipping enough votes in key states would have been a simple task.

If your God and Christ are one and the same, why did Jesus preach about feeding the hungry, sheltering the homeless, and caring for the sick – things that Trump is apparently against? Was Christ just a rebel who spent his life on earth undermining his Father’s will that none of these Christian principles be adhered to?

If your God is all-loving, why has he sat idly by while his ‘anointed one’ allows hundreds of thousands of Americans to die due to Trump’s own selfishness and incompetence?

If your God is capable of miracles, why didn’t he pull one out of his sleeve in Pennsylvania, Georgia, Nevada, and Arizona? Why did your all-powerful deity not lift a finger to help the man you believe was his choice to spend another four years in the Oval Office?

If your God IS God, why did he allow Biden and the Democrats to win the election? Why was there no ‘divine intervention’ to prevent this debacle from happening? Why did your God not expose their supposed evil before voters went to the polls?

In the end, Christians always accept whatever happens as being “God’s will”. So maybe it’s time to accept that God’s will is to see Joe Biden inaugurated as our next POTUS – because, according to you, if it wasn’t his will, it couldn’t have happened.

[Blue Owl]

1. K&R

[Thomas Hurt]

2. If the Son of God refused to jump from the Temple because you do not test God....

why do you test God by refusing simple precautions in the face of a life threatening virus, another part of God's creation.

[mr_lebowski]

3. Anyone who believes that there's magical sky creatures that physically intercede

in the day-to-day operations of 'life on this planet' ... outside of the extent to which humans take various voluntary actions as a result of believing in said magical sky creatures ... has a serious screw loose, IMHO.

I literally consider that type of magical thinking to be a (usually fairly mild) form of insanity.

[TheBlackAdder]

5. It's like SpongeBob and the Magic Conch

.

.

[Doodley]

11. If you don't believe in magic, you will never find it.

[mr_lebowski]

34. Or imagine it (nt)

[wnylib]

21. You've nailed the core of what

religious belief is, IMO.

For some people, God is a magical Santa Claus who grants their wish list and determines if they are naughty or nice. Miracles for the good folks and coal in the stocking for the naughty ones. For others, God is a concept of what are good principles and values to live by, believe in, and work for.

[mr_lebowski]

33. I've been saying 'God is Santa Claus for grownups' for my entire adult life

The analogy is near-perfect.

I mean, I'm not saying 'believing in (some) God' is totally crazy, but thinking that they go around making magical (physically impossible) stuff 'happen' in the world is just nutty to me.

[wnylib]

36. God as Santa Claus is a child's

perspective on religion. Some people never outgrow it. Others give up religion altogether when they outgrow the child's eye view, which is fine if it works for them. Not crazy and harmful like childish literalism in adulthood.

But some develop a more adult understanding of spirituality and personal growth through religion.

I think Judaism does a better job of teaching people how to pray than Christianity often does. In Judaism, usually people learn to ask for help in understanding something or someone, or in doing something better, or for strength in getting through something difficult. It opens people up to bringing out their best and/or finding and accepting available help.

Christians are more inclined to ask for things to be given to them, whether material (better job), or social (new boy or girlfriend), etc. .because they feel they've been good and therefore deserve it. Gimme prayers. That's just a generalization about different approaches to prayer. It doesn't apply to everyone or all occasions.

[Celerity]

26. +1000

[House of Roberts]

4. God and Evil - Epicurus

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able, and willing?
Thence whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?

[ariadne0614]

9. +1

[ariadne0614]

10. +1

[A HERETIC I AM]

22. A god whose existence is impossible to demonstrate...

Shares the exact same attributes as a god that does not exist

[wnylib]

23. That is the theme of the

Biblical book of Job. Do people live their values because they think there's a pie in the sky figure who will protect them from all misfortune and danger and give them all the good things they want and feel that they deserve?

Or do people live their values for their own sake, just because it's a good way to live, no matter what happens?

[Volaris]

30. And WHEN job finally cracked and begged god 'why, WHY me?', gods response was..

...essentially;

Fuck off. Because even IF I explained it to you, you wouldnt understand it, because you lack the comprehension to fully understand it in the first place.. you lack the narrative and scientific language.

At least, that's how I remember reading it....

[wnylib]

35. Yeah, that's pretty much the response.

It's why I like the story. And why I think that religious people who take the story too literally miss the forest for the trees. Same is true, IMO, of non religious people who use a literal, linear perspective of the story as a foundation for ridicule.

I see the story's author as projecting his own voice as the voice of God in the response of "What makes you think you have the comprehension to fully understand, even if I told you?" The question throughout the story is "Why are these awful things happening to such a good man?"

That's what Job's friends and neighbors think when they come to console him and instead end up accusing him of some wrongdoing that has got God really pissed off at him. (With friends like that, who needs enemies?)

In the story's conclusion, Job is angry, frustrated, and in deep emotional pain about the meaninglessness and injustice of it all. And the author says essentially that there is no answer to why. You spin yourself into hopelessness and despair if you keep asking an unanswerable question.

A better question to ask is "what" instead of the unanswerable "why." What do you do about the fact that shit happens in life? Do you get all self-righteous and know-it-all, like Job's friends and pass judgment on people going through rough times? Or do you accept that sometimes life sucks and it could happen to you too and you don't really know why? All you can do, then, if you're in the role of Job's friends, is to bethere for him and show some compassion and love instead of turning away.

But what do you do if you're Job? Give up in despair? Decide that there really is nothing good in life to care about because if you find it, you'll only lose it anyway?

I did not understand the depth of meaning in this story until I had to deal with a terrible tragedy in my family, the kind that makes you so angry and hurt that you say, "This should not happen to anyone." And then the only "why" question that you can answer is, "Why am I so hurt and angry?" The answer for me was, "Because it's so awful that it violates and nullifies everything good, decent, and loving in life."

So the solution could not be giving in to nihilistic despair and cynicism because that would only add to the misery that already exists in life and become what outraged me in the first place. The solution was to commit even deeper and stronger to what is decent, caring, and loving to make sure that it continues to exist in life. When you are stripped of everything, as Job was, the only thing you have left is to continue with values because you understand better how important they are for their own sake and not for any expectation of rewards or guarantees.

[Celerity]

27. ...

[marie999]

31. A person who believes in God would answer,

if God only allowed good and did not let people do as they choose, we would be the same as all other animals. I am a deist.

[Doodley]

7. I'm an atheist, but I see it takes faith to understand the role of God.-

[Cha]

8. K & Freaking R!!

Mahalo, Nance

[Moostache]

12. They DON'T CARE....

It is now, always was and ever shall be a convenient hammer to use to bludgeon the "other" with...

Gay? Bible verse for you! Hate the sin, etc.
Slavery? Bible verse for you! Submit to the earthly masters, etc.
Raped wife? Bible verse for you! Stone her for insufficient volume on her protests...

The point is that they do not apply these standards or verses or principles to themselves! Perish the thought and clutch the pearls! Dear Lord you are going to give them all the vapors!

[JohnnyRingo]

13. Sure, how do you think all those dead people voted?

Maybe God was pulling for Biden after all.

[peggysue2]

15. Or all those dead people?

Were resurrected on Election Day.

Just so everyone knows, I find the idea of God participating in politics, anointing winners and losers in elections, ludicrous to the extreme. Which is why I consider the evangelical tilt beyond the pale.

It's enough to make anyone an atheist! Or at the very least an agnostic.

[JohnnyRingo]

16. It makes people not want to be like them.

I wouldn't want someone to mistake me for an evangelical so I go the other way.
Same with racism.

[MyMission]

14. Actually, they think it's God's will if it happens to someone else

They will see it as Devine punishment or retribution directed at others.

But if it happens to them they don't see it as God's will; they see it as others doing them wrong and look to cast blame.

I noticed this some time ago. It's typical of their hypocrisy.

[MFM008]

17. Those types wouldnt know a real christian

from a doughnut.

In a scene from 'Jesus of Nazareth', Robert Powell (Jesus) tells the rich son
what he must do to get into heaven, give up his possessions and to follow him.
The rich guy is confused, stricken, appalled, of course says NO...........
Jesus then tells his followers it would be " easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven".
PS. this is an actual biblical story, not just a movie but i use it as my example...

Now THOSE our the maggot loving "Christians".

Imagine an offer from Jesus himself to follow him and turning him down.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[Upthevibe]

18. Thank you NanceGreggs....

This is excellent..

[Kablooie]

19. If your God is all knowing and everything is his will...

Why do anything?
Just sit back and do nothing because anything you do has no meaning anyway.

[KY_EnviroGuy]

20. To my knowledge, no polling places suffered lightning strikes or overwhelming floods....

or swarms of locus to chew new holes in ballots or millions of flying squid to place black marks for tRump....

I guess the earth just was not quite oriented properly on Nov. 3rd for the lord's magic to work for Rethugs.

One of them must have forgot to tithe on Nov. 1 in church......

Thanks for the good rant, NanceGreggs.......

[mtnsnake]

42. Good one!

[VOX]

24. "If it turns out that there is a God..."

“...the worst that you can say about him is that basically he's an underachiever.”
~ Woody Allen

[TigressDem]

25. Um, because MY God thinks Biden, who actually attends church, might listen once in awhile.

Because MY God gave people freedom of choice and has fondness for His children even when they are acting like spoiled brats.

Because MY God DOES know that macing people to stand in front of a church to hold up a Bible is the act of a Pharisee, not a true believer.

Because MY God has already seen a bunch of rich, entitled folk try to claim they know HIS will and just shakes His head.

MY God WANTS the People to make their own choices and often lets us live with the consequences.

I STILL WISH MY God would just let loose 1 lightening bolt and roast tRump, but he is a little busy listening to the prayers of people trying to get the election certified so the actual winner can get in the White House and start repairing the damage.

Because MY God is the one who wanted Jesus to teach us about feeding the hungry, sheltering the homeless and caring for the sick and is just as ready as America is to see the back end of tRump for good.

IF tRump was "anointed" someone sure told him that jumping into a pile of poo was good for the soul and the fool believed it. AS his behavior STINKS up the whole country right now.

But MY God isn't a racist bastard that only loves white people.

JOHN 3:16 - For God so loved the world....

God doesn't make exceptions, and neither do I. There are a lot of people I don't like... but in the spirit of love, I try to forgive them for being taken in by the Cult of the REICH Wing. Their behavior does NOT line up with the Bible I read, that is for sure.

[hamsterjill]

29. Thank you for this.

I am a Christian. I am not one of the crazy Evangelicals who believes Trump is god sent. I believe that God loves each of us. I fail at forgiveness daily.

I appreciate that you’ve expressed what many of us believe OUR God is about. There are many believers on DU.

[TigressDem]

44. You are welcome.

It's so hard to see people being brainwashed by the cult that has invaded the Republican party.

I still know people who have sincere conservative beliefs, but they are being lied to repeatedly. QAnon and such is so sickening. The Boogaloo Bois were part of destroying the 3rd Precinct in Minneapolis MN where I live. These awful things are being done and blamed on DEMS or BLM. Evil is stalking the Earth and enjoying the things tRump gets away with.

I truly believe that "no one knows the date or the time" of the apocalypse because God gives us the opportunity to snatch victory out of the jaws of defeat through our belief and defiance of the thugs that could bring it about. There have been so many dark times and people have risen up and fought back and stood together afterward stronger than before.

[ChazII]

46. Another thank you.

You articulated my thoughts better than I could and also helped my frustration level go down.

[TigressDem]

48. I am glad. I get it.

I was on DU back when GW was driving us crazy.

I reached out to a lot of people that were so angry at Christians, trying to explain there is a huge variety of ways that people believe and only a small narrow path of the "fundamentalist" in the extreme is onboard with a lot of the White Supremacy etc...

Then Pope Benedict showed up. A former Hitler Youth, most likely conscripted to be sure and went into the Priesthood to atone for his sins, but SO conservative and brought back all the crap the Catholic Church got rid of in Vatican II.

I left the Church, but I kept my heart on God. To me faith is about being a better person yourself, not forcing it on others.

I look to the example of Christ. He didn't push anyone around. He walked and said, "Follow" and if you didn't, it was your own loss.

His way is a better way as far as I am concerned.

I do also believe that many other types of beliefs have their own validity, something to teach and learn. I figure someday science will evolve enough to prove or disprove God exists and until then, I still live as a person evolving toward a better way. Still a win for me.

Whoever follows, fine. Nobody follows, fine. I have met and liked people in almost all the religions that show up in the US as well as agnostics, atheists, pagans, druids, wiccans, even one satanist. People are people - got good and bad to them. The satanist said he couldn't get out, as in "back to God" due to certain rituals, but had regrets.

STILL the people who drive ME craziest are the REICH Wing Christians who use God to excuse their behavior that is SO hateful.

MY God as I learned is LOVE - unconditional, forgiving, healing love.

Their spews of lies and conspiracy theories are an embarrassment to people who have actually studied the Bible. Especially the ways of Christ.

The Old Testament does have a lot of looney tunes in it, I will admit. But consider the times and the state of where humanity had evolved at the time. There is still much to be learned, but to take each word literally is to miss a lot of the underlying meaning and basic truths.

Anyway. RANT OVER.

[Roisin Ni Fiachra]

28. Evangelicals/Republicans/Conservatives do not believe in, or feel, a living God.

They believe in a self-contradicting inanimate object - their Bible. They are self identified "Bible Believers". They wouldn't know god even if she created a wonderful, beautiful, miraculous natural world to live and play in, and take care of.

The reason they mindlessly adore and worship Donald Trump is because he best represents their concept of "god":

a brutal, cruel, hateful, destructive, abusive, violent, selfish, narcissistic, greedy, sociopathic authoritarian male, lacking in all kindness and empathy.

[marie999]

32. I have always wondered why some football players cross themselves when they score a touchdown,

but don't give God the finger when they miss the pass.

[mtnsnake]

39. Just once I'd love to see a sports star makes the sign of the cross right before a critical play...

like just before shooting a game-tying foul shot with 1 second left or just before shooting a penalty shot in hockey or soccer. Then, after they fuck it up, see that person look up at the sky with a bewildered look on their face and shrugging their hands out to the side as if they were saying WTF, God?

[mtnsnake]

37. Thank you for this, Nance. I can't wait to read a a certain Christmas letter

that my wife and I get in the mail each year from an old college friend who went from being a left leaning liberal to a far Right evangelical Catholic after he got married back in the late 70's. Every year we get the tackiest Christmas letter from them bragging about their travels, their kids, their grandchildren, their money, their mansion, etc, and they always make sure to insert God at least 20 times in the letter about how everything is His will and how He wanted it to be this way. Even when their precious dog got run over by a car it was because God wanted it that way because He knew that the dog was old and sick. I could never understand why those evangelicals feel they have to capitalize He and His to make their point. It will be interesting this year to see how they spin the election as being God's will. Their letters, as tacky as they always are, have become a source of entertainment for us.

[JGladstone]

38. A few words from the faithful and a lesson for some

“When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist.”

--Archbishop Dom Helder Camera

"Many people would like the poor to say that it's God's will that they are poor. It is not God’s will for some to have everything and others to have nothing. This cannot be God."

--Archbishop Oscar Romero

[brooklynite]

40. Answer: "free will" and "Satan" covers all contingencies...

[Atticus]

41. That ought to leave a mark. nt

[11 Bravo]

43. This Christian says, "Thank you, Nance!"

As always, you nail it.

I have gotten so fucking sick of watching so called evangelical "Christians" pervert what I believe to be the word of God, that I've come close to losing my shit.

Well, here you go, fundies and other assorted TV preaching grifter assholes. The Lord has spoken. And your false idol is heading to the ash can of history.

Fuck off and join him.

Amen.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

45. My God was always super-liberal...

... when I attended a Methodist church with my parents as a young kid.

So THAT God is surely pleased.

(I stopped going when I became agnostic.)

[GulfCoast66]

47. Most Democratic voters are Christian. As are many on DU. Most of my most loved friends are as well

I’m now a freethinker but as a former evangelical I can tell you why they love trump. He Encapsulates the God they believe in. Any angry white guy out to smash his enemies. Calvinism on steroids. That was the god I grew up indoctrinated with. No room for the whole Jesus message of love and forgiveness.

Then I read David Hume. That changed everything.