If Michigan doesn't certify today, we're in coup territory.

[Girard442]

Absent specific and credible allegations of crimes massive enough to flip the results, that’s where we’ll be.

[Arazi]

1. What time is that scheduled for?

[BumRushDaShow]

18. The Governor was on Joe Madison's show (SiriusXM) this morning

and she said they are supposed to meet this afternoon.

[Kaleva]

2. Nope and it's been explained many times here already why we won't be in coup territory.

But people want to believe that which reinforces their world view and readily dismiss that which doesn't.

An example:

https://democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=14599767

[Cha]

7. And, pisses me off.. TY for the link

[doc03]

10. MSNBC is sure trying to make it a coup nt

[Johnny2X2X]

16. MSNBC is a perpetual outrage machine

People need to turn off MSNBC, it does not keep you informed and makes people miserable. It's all outrage, all the time.

They know that they make more money by keeping their viewers in a perpetual state of anger and anxiety.

Doesn't mean I don't really respect some of their on air personalities. Doesn't mean I think they lie like FOX News. I just think the last few years they've become alarmist to the extreme and their entire programming now is based on that.

Doesn't mean there aren't things to be alarmed about, just that on MSNBC right now they're not giving the full and more realistic story.

We're not in coup territory. We're in delay the inevitable territory.

[Ferrets are Cool]

29. This

[Tommy_Carcetti]

11. In the poster's defense...

...if Republicans did attempt to blatantly ignore the law and somehow insist they are entitled to their own slate of electors, that would be a coup attempt.

Because coups are inherently illegal. What you describe is following the law. So of course that wouldn’t be a coup. But an attempt to circumvent it, no matter how pathetic and ill-thought out, would.

Now if that coup attempt is blatantly ignored by those charged with carrying out the certification process, a) good and b) it might be the expected application of the law.

But that wouldn’t make it any less of an attempt, even if a bad one.

And I’ll add that we’ve had four years experience to know that those in Trumpworld don’t give a shit about following the law, so a pathetic, ill planned coup attempt shouldn’t be that surprising.

[Kaleva]

19. There's no evidence that a majority of Repubs in the state legislatur are planning such

Claiming, w/o evidence, that the Repubs in MI may attempt a coup is no different then claiming Biden and the Democrats stole the election.

OPs like this really belong in Creative Speculation IMHO. Others may not agree.

[Happy Hoosier]

25. I get it. But we must not be complacent.

Whether or not they can accomplish what they seek they are still attempting to subvert the will of the people, and that is worthy of alarm and daylight imo.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

39. That's my takeaway too. nt

[SlogginThroughIt]

40. Exactly.

How is it difficult for people to understand? Being alert doesn’t mean running around screaming and acting illogical. To me it means nit trusting what the republicans are up to and what the fallout if their actions will be.

And people here attack posters for it. Unreal.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

26. Again coups by nature are typically a small group.

Lest they grow popular support in which they are revolutions.

I’m not saying there’s any attempted coup yet. Hopefully there won’t be one.

I’m just saying your definitions are off.

[radius777]

13. +1. Even right wing judges have thrown out

most of these cases, both before and after the election.

The far-fetched idea that the Constitution allows state legislatures to arbitarily select the electors (and thus arbitrarily select the president) is just not going to happen as it would upend our entire conception of American democracy, where we the people choose and not some cabal of state and local officials.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

3. Absent specific and credible explanation in your OP, I disbelieve you. You can do better. . . . nt

[beachbumbob]

4. knowledge is key and there is NO PATHWAY for the results not to be certified in the end

perhaps the state AG should start mentioning impaneling a Grand Jury to investigate the state GOP and GOP canvassers and the trump campaign NOW.

[cire41]

5. Because of the RWNJ on the panel, it likely won't be certified

But that’s okay. The Dems will go to court on the same day and get an order to certify. Alternatively, Whitmer can simply replace the nutjobs on the panel.

[Gothmog]

6. I am worried

[gab13by13]

8. Pa. gets certified today, game over.

[superpatriotman]

9. From the Detroit Free Press

The meeting of the Board of State Canvassers, which votes independently of both the Legislature and the governor, is set for 1 p.m. Monday and can be viewed on the Facebook page of the Michigan Secretary of State's Office.

If the board does not vote Monday to certify Michigan's election results, legal experts don't expect it will pose a serious threat to appointing the state's presidential electors.

If the board showed no signs of acting to certify, someone would almost certainly sue in the Michigan Court of Appeals, seeking an order requiring the board to do so. Such an order could then be appealed to the Michigan Supreme Court. Once court proceedings are concluded, preferably before the Dec. 8 "safe harbor" date by which Congress is required to accept Michigan's electoral votes, Gov. Gretchen Whitmer would certify the state's 16 presidential electors ahead of the Dec. 14 convening of the Electoral College.

[Jarqui]

12. I'm concerned

CNN: Key GOP Michigan canvassing board member expected to vote against certifying results
https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/22/politics/michigan-election-result-certification/index.html
I have seen WaPo stories that are more on the fence with this board member.

I've seen him asking for evidence of fraud, etc.
But his wife provided an affidavit to Trump's Michigan case citing voting irregularities.

The other GOP board member (of the two Republicans that vote) is a lawyer for the party.
He hasn't been saying anything that I've seen.

Trump invited GOP State legislators to the White House. I wondered if he did so knowing this vote was in the bag.

At the very least, a thumbs down by these two GOP board members against certifying would stir up a hornets nest of media and Trump would love that.

The meeting begins at 1pm.
Various people will be speaking.
I think they have to wrap it up one way or the other today in terms of a vote to certify or not certify.
Today is a deadline to do so.

There have been cases where the courts have weighed in before and forced them to certify but they were on ballot issues - not elections.

The Governor has options like replacing them but they may cause more trouble legally if she tries to invoke them.

My guess is that Trump has already blackmailed or bribed his way into throwing a wrench into this vote. He only had to steal two partisan votes.

I suspect he's already working the list of electors to see which ones he can blackmail or buy.

This thing is not going to be over for me until Biden gets 270+ EV in the Electoral College.

[hamsterjill]

15. It's not over for me until Biden is inaugurated.

Thank you for an informative post.

[Girard442]

20. Yup. Look for Joe's actual butt in the Oval Office.

[hamsterjill]

23. It's been four years of Trump "bending" laws.

I put nothing past him and his enablers. This is not fear mongering. It’s the reality that we live in.

The overconfidence of some on this board is great. My hat’s off to them for their positivity. But there is example after example of Trump defying the usual and the norm.

So, for me, I’ll wait. If someone has a problem with my attitude, then that’s okay. But I grow weary of the “it’ll all be rosy” admonitions only to have been disappointed too many times.

[Bettie]

32. Yeah, how many times

have we heard "that won't happen"....then, it happens.

[StarfishSaver]

14. No, we won't be in coup territory if that happens.

Not even close.

Legal experts on this board and elsewhere have explained over and over why that's the case, yet some people still insist on pushing and freaking out over doomsday scenarios. It's an interesting phenomenon.

Link to tweet

[Girard442]

17. If someone is trying to jimmy your front door..

...then they are definitely making an attempt to break and enter. The door may be made of battleship armor and you may be waiting on the other side with a pack of Dobermans and a SWAT team, but a B&E is definitely being attempted, whether or not it’s likely to succeed.

[StarfishSaver]

22. Someone "making an attempt" to do something does not put us into that territory

No matter how much some people want to waste their time and energy carrying on about something that isn't actually about to happen.

[Demsrule86]

33. +100000

[dware]

35. +100. nt

[BumRushDaShow]

24. The MI GOP has the obvious "face-saver" option

to have the vocal loon vote "no" and the one you/we haven't heard a peep from, vote "yes" along with the 2 Democrats, to result in a "3-1" approve and certify. This would register the GOP's "concern" but not illegally hold up the process. The end.

The margin of Biden victory in MI is nearly 10.5 times 45's margin in 2016, where there was a mere 11,000 vote difference between the two back in 2016 vs a 150,000 vote difference this year.

[Demsrule86]

31. I am hoping that will be the one they choose, excellent post. But in the end even if they

don't certify today...they will have to certify by court order or the governor will fire them...they have no legal right to ask for any sort of recount or audit. That has to happen after certification. Also, I doubt there is anything Trump can do in PA...without PA, he has no path.

[BumRushDaShow]

37. Governor Whitmer was on Joe Madison's show this morning

and she said that they are ready with every option to invoke should the 2 on this canvas board do not follow the law and their duty.

PA does it's certification today and I am watching for the Third Circuit to hopefully deny the appeal and the SCOTUS to do the same.

SCOTUSblog noted this -

Link to tweet

TEXT

SCOTUSblog
@SCOTUSblog
There is no chance SCOTUS will review the suit dismissed by Judge Brann seeking to block Pennsylvania’s certification. The lawyers representing the President are either delusional or intentionally misleading him and his supporters.
11:41 AM · Nov 22, 2020

[Demsrule86]

30. Please. just because someone attempts "to break and enter" doesn't mean they will. All these sort of

posts do is produce unnecessary anxiety. Please stop.

[SlogginThroughIt]

41. That wasn't the point.

The attempt at what they are doing WILL have an effect on our norms.

[StarfishSaver]

43. "Affecting our normal" isn't "coup territory"

[SlogginThroughIt]

45. They are attempting a coup no?

That IS what they are attempting. They will fail. But they are probing our systems and it will have a lasting result. We also need to be learning from this and have a response to it. Letting this all slide is nit really an option. Republicans are VERY good at the long game.

[StarfishSaver]

46. They can ATTEMPT anything

That doesn't put us into the territory.

But if you want to get yourself all worked up over something that hasn't and isn't anywhere close to being likely to happen, that's on you.

[Demsrule86]

49. And? I fail to see what can be done about this...

[SlogginThroughIt]

52. I think the biggest thing that should be done

is education through ad campaigns. There is a very large portion of our citizens that need to understand that this is dangerous and need to understand why it is dangerous. Of course this is always the case.

[Demsrule86]

53. Maybe, I think they are not particularly effective these days though.

[USALiberal]

50. Really silly! Nt

[Demsrule86]

21. Stop the fear mongering.The court will order a certification or certify it themselves.

Trump lost by over 100,000 votes. There will be no coup.

[dware]

34. It does get tiring doesn't it. nt

[yellowcanine]

27. NOT TRUE. Stop the fear mongering. Certification will happen regardless of what happens today.

So that is not a coup.

[Turin_C3PO]

28. Of course they're attempting a coup

but their chance at pulling it off is less than 1% if that.

[Baclava]

36. The Governor can replace people on the canvass board, slam their dick in the door on the way out

[MineralMan]

38. When in danger or in doubt,

Scream and wave your arms about...

or

Run in circles, scream and shout...

No, it wouldn't mean that at all. I would just mean a small delay.

[Rice4VP]

42. The vote is literally in 2 hours. How about waiting for

2 hours and 15 minutes before freaking out? Just a suggestion

[Kaleva]

48. +1

[sandensea]

44. A Latin America-style judicial coup - absolutely

Though known more for its violent military coups, Latin America has since 2009 seen a number of high-profile judicial coups: the use of courts to overturn election results that certain well-connected executives in that country (and in the U.S. and Europe) didn't particularly like.

Judicial coups accomplish the same thing a military coup does - but with the all-important patina of legality military coups lack (and a lot less bloodshed).

[ooky]

47. No. This is just more nonsense that won't work. We will be in coup territory when

Trump just gives up on all the nonsensical conspiracy and fraud crap and cuts to the chase by trying to declare himself dictator.

[Sogo]

51. From MI SOS FB page:

Michigan Secretary of State's Office

Monday's Board of State Canvassers meeting will be streamed live at YouTube.com/MichSoSOffice with captions.


https://www.youtube.com/user/MichSoSOffice

[DarthDem]

54. What's the emoji for utterly tiresome?

No, we're not in "coup territory."

[lindysalsagal]

55. It's over even if a few of his toadies can't admit it publicly.

No one's hair should be on fire at this point. frump's gonna do some damage on the way out but he's going. There's no doubt about it. This is playing chess w the georgia runoff, and it's a grifter moment to recoup his financial losses.