Are we OK if Trump pardons himself (or has Pence do it) and later it's

[no_hypocrisy]

confirmed that he's sold State Secrets, Defense Secrets, Espionage Secrets to foreign entities?

Once pardoned, Trump is blameless for any and all damage he does to this country.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. I'm not OK with it, but if it happens I hope the Manhattan DA is ready.

[no_hypocrisy]

4. Can a state prosecutor go after federal crimes?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

7. No, but there are plenty of state crimes he's probably guilty of

that could put him away for a long time. I don't care who gives him the orange jumpsuit or why, as long as somebody does it.

[Sneederbunk]

2. I am afraid we are going to have to rely on the states to nail his ass.

[PoliticAverse]

3. A Pence pardon of Trump would be a tremendous gift to Democrats. n/t

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

5. Yes, just ask Jerry Ford's ghost what happens to your election chances

when you've pardoned a criminal president.

[Doodley]

6. I hope he does it. It will look like an admission of guilt. There's plenty of

crimes at state level that could put him away for the rest of his life.

[unblock]

8. The obvious remedy would be

The intelligence services torture and kill him, then the president pardons everyone involved in that mission.


(No I am not actually advocating this.)

[MineralMan]

9. Pardons are for past acts, not future ones.

You can't pardon someone for future unlawful actions.

[Doodley]

10. If it is found Trump sold state secrets there should be ten investigations into it, just as there

ten for Benghazi to rub it in the faces of all those who supported him. If Trump pardons himself, it just makes him look more guilty.

[Kaleva]

11. I'm not going to concern myself with situations that are totally outside my control

[Op-ed Daily]

12. No, I'm not okay with that nor did the founders intend for it to be this way - Federalist 74, 69

https://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/fed74.asp

And 69: https://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/fed69.asp

Hamilton argued for pardon power as a negotiation tool but assumed the publicity of pardoning certain crimes would be enough to give a President pause. He also mentioned that it seems only fair given governors' pardon power.

Nowhere in the Federalist Papers does it mention self-pardoning in one way or another, which SHOULD lead most sane men to realize their intent was not an ability to pardon one's self but to use it strategically, in times of insurrection or rebellion, or in forms of expediency, etc.

I'm not saying that based on the wording of the pardon power that he CAN'T, or that a court wouldn't allow it, but I'm fairly confident self-pardoning was not brought up because they likely would have assumed people understood it to apply to others.

It's so crazy that we're even having to have this conversation. o.0

[c-rational]

15. Well said and agreed. Welcome to DU.

[soothsayer]

13. He's bringing firing squads back just in the nick of time

Shouldn’t respect any such pardon

[MontanaMama]

14. I'm not okay with it

and I think he definitely sold state secrets to our enemies with Jared’s help. Nothing I can do about it. My wish would be that Pence would want some future in politics badly enough that he would agree to the pardon then not do it saying that he “wasn’t aware” of the scope of the MF’s betrayal of the nation...but that would require some backbone and personal fortitude...of which Pence has neither.

[keithbvadu2]

16. So he can pardon someone (himself?) for treason.

So he can pardon someone (himself?) for treason.

[PoliticAverse]

18. It's unlikely he a self-pardon would be upheld by the courts but he can pardon people for treason...

At the Constitutional Convention there was a proposal to exempt treason from the president's pardoning power, the notion being that if a president conspired with subordinates to commit treason he should not be able to protect himself by pardoning fellow conspirators. But Professor Kalt of Michigan State University notes that the founders rejected the proposal because they said there were and are other remedies.

(From: https://www.npr.org/2017/07/27/539825453/the-presidential-pardon-power-what-are-its-limits )

[PJMcK]

17. How about this?

Trump has such a porous memory that I'm not really too afraid of him trying to sell state secrets. If he did, the FBI would be all over his ass.

But what about if Trump pardons himself then leaves office. The pardon is then challenged on Constitutional grounds and SCOTUS rules against Trump. Now, he'd be liable for anything and everything.

He's so stupid that I can actually doing this to himself.