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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHoly fucking shit!!! Maureen Dowd at the NYT has gone insane!!!
Last edited Sun Nov 29, 2020, 04:07 PM - Edit history (1)
EDIT: I misread the disclaimer. This wasn't written by Maureen Dowd but by her rightwing wingnut brother.Still, I think the op-ed serves as a nice view into the selective perception of right-wingers, angrily ignoring everything that doesn't fit into their world-view.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/26/opinion/thanksgiving-dowd-2020.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage
What happened to draining the swamp? What happened to making the US respected again? What happened to building a wall and making Mexico pay for it? What happened to replacing Obamacare? What happened to reducing the national debt to zero? What happened to the record-braking multi-trillion-dollar infrastructure renovation?
Making a bunch of idiots think that you did something, DOES NOT COUNT AS ACTUALLY DOING IT!
Those hypocritical Democrats! Refusing to oppose the best President ever!
In historical comparison, Trump's economy is actually mediocre. His economic growth percentage-wise (excluding the COVID-recession) is no higher than the economic growth of the George W. Bush-era (excluding the 2008/2009 recession) or of the Clinton-era. Plus, if Obama's track-record has to include the 2009 recession, then Trump's track-record has to include the 2020 recession.
And Trump "guaranteed the integrity of the judicial system" after McConnell prevented Obama from doing so and then stacked the courts with unqualified partisan hacks. What an achievement!
He labeled Africa as shithole-countries, he labeled mexican illegal immigrants as murderers and rapists, he separated toddlers from their parents and put them into cages, his administration has lost hundreds of underage latino-children and has made no effort to find them, his administration has illegally denied asylum-seekers the right to apply for asylum on US soil, he signed a supposedly anti-terrorist travel-ban for muslim ountries but somehow excluded muslim countries wheremost of the islamic terrorists come from, he called black people protesting police-brutality "sons of bitches", he has protected and supported actual streetfighting Neonazis at every opportunity, he tried to get the votes of majority-black precincts thrown out in the 2020 election. And he built that fucking expensive and fucking useless wall THAT YOU JUST COMMENDED HIM FOR and that won't actually make a dent in illegal immigration because most illegal immigrants come to the US legally and simply overstay their visas.
He exited NAFTA just so he can negiotiate basically the same deal again but this time with his name on it. He BROKE the nuclear deal with Iran, setting the precedent that the US cannot be trusted to go through on its own deals. He has started a tarif-war with China that increased consumer-prices in the US and is driving small farms ever-faster to extinction. He has shamelessly taken Israels side and has destroyed for good any chance for the US to be a non-partisan broker in the Israel-Palestinian conflict ever again.
Oh, the unfair and openly hostile press that dared to report on what Trump is saying and doing.
Oh, the deep state that somehow decided to not make it public that Trump is under investigation for russian collusion.
Oh, the deep state that somehow dared to put loyalty to the US over loyalty to him.
Shameless lying is not counterpunching.
Sooooooooooooo, according to Maureen Dowd the COVD-recession DOESN'T count towards Trump's economic track-record.
No, it was rock-solid because Trump gave them what they wanted: A white strongman who gave them permission to shamelessly give in to their darkest desires.
And the notion that somehow white rural conservatives people are taken for granted is UTTER nonsense considering that the majority of lawmakers are white, christian males AND that rural states have outsized political power in the US Senate.
Yay! Even more evidence that Americans don't know shit about what socialism actually is! They even think that socialism and social-democracy are the same thing!!!
(At this point I am seriously expecting Maureen Dowd to say that the Nazis were left-wingers because they were the National-Socialist Party.)
Yeah, the rest of the civilized world hated him, but republican voters loved him, which can only mean that he was a good person, because the opinions of non-Republicans don't count.
Good grief. Maureen Dowd thinks that having a boring and effective government that doesn't generate apocalyptic headlines is somehow a bad thing.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand here we have it:
Maureen Dowd thinks that reporting facts instead of bothsiderism is political bias.
Nope. Not gonna comment on that.
struggle4progress
(118,275 posts)cwydro
(51,308 posts)Good lord.
struggle4progress
(118,275 posts)The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,669 posts)And maybe she did it to make her brother look like a fool with his own words. Who knows what kind of family issues are going on?
struggle4progress
(118,275 posts)Maybe she'll next offer her place to the people who believe we liver on the inside of a flat and hollow Earth and who warn us to beware of the shape-shifting body snatching illegal space alien lizard people, who live among us in disguise to suck out our precious bodily fluids?
JHB
(37,158 posts)If she wants to share a screed by her brother, she can read it at her next cocktail party, or whatever she's doing as a substitute these days. Then it can reach the vanishingly few people who are so exquisitely isolated they haven't heard all this before.
The rest of us have heard it before because "wingnutville" never shuts up about it. I've heard versions of this for forty years.
They resent what they feel are caricatures of them, but they caricature us with reckless abandon. They complain that we accuse all of them for the extreme words and actions of a few, while being completely oblivious to how they're doing that about us.
They marinate in such a RW media environment that FOX simply acknowledging reality is considered an unforgivable "turn to the left."
These people make the most stereotypical snowflakey liberal arts college activists look like veritable stoics. They've created "Alert!" notification networks so they can lose their shit about everything. This is an addiction to axe grinding costumed as righteous anger.
Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)Why the NY Times continues to employ such a hack is the real question.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)I love how people go off half-cocked around here just so they can be enraged.
Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)under her byline. Like it or not, she is responsible for it.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)It's extremely disgusting and dishonest to not bother to read for oneself and then attack by mistake.
It's doubling down on BOTH to then insist they're also the demonized one's fault.
Just perhaps a few people here owe Ms. Poison Pen Dowd an apology? That she owes many millions herself doesn't make it okay.
Voltaire2
(13,008 posts)Also it was really mean to make fun of Trump at his tiny desk.
Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)that absolves her of any responsibility for publishing that BS?
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)don't need your censorship of what they read under the mistaken concern that they also don't understand the message and where it's coming from. I'd add a reader's responsibility NOT to refuse to understand for personal reasons and then spread that to others.
Don't we imagine ourselves the people who despise trumpist-level dishonesty and their eagerness to spray-gun it everywhere?
Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)She is responsible for it.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)Progressive Jones
(6,011 posts)Cirque du So-What
(25,927 posts)She landed a prominent spot on my 'pay no mind' list a long time ago.
Glorfindel
(9,726 posts)See this DU entry from earlier today:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100214635853
I'm no fan of Ms Dowd, but she didn't write that particular crap.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)I know that is not out waving a confederate flag, going on maneuvers with the local militia, etc.
Raftergirl
(1,285 posts)This Thanksgiving, Im going to make myself a French 75 and toast the end of a very bad, horrible, no-good year. Ill be the only one in our family following Dr. Faucis advice to bite the bullet and skip our large holiday gathering. No doubt, my Trump-loving family will pour one out for the president. In that spirit, my brother, Kevin, offers the following threnody for Donald Trump.
nolabear
(41,959 posts)The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,669 posts)Not that Maureen herself is exactly a font of wisdom, but this isn't her opinion. It's always a good idea to read something thoroughly before posting about it.
SharonClark
(10,014 posts)This Thanksgiving, Im going to make myself a French 75 and toast the end of a very bad, horrible, no-good year. Ill be the only one in our family following Dr. Faucis advice to bite the bullet and skip our large holiday gathering. No doubt, my Trump-loving family will pour one out for the president. In that spirit, my brother, Kevin, offers the following threnody for Donald Trump.
Note: Several conversations about this article, one posted earlier today.
mcar
(42,300 posts)struggle4progress
(118,275 posts)Meowmee
(5,164 posts)Ms. Toad
(34,060 posts)standingtall
(2,785 posts)How is she not just as responsible for the content in it?
Ms. Toad
(34,060 posts)They argued she wrote it. Facts matter.
BeyondGeography
(39,369 posts)Consider self-deleting.
standingtall
(2,785 posts)Saying her wingnut brother wrote it. Does nothing to soften it. If she allowed him to write this than she is just as responsible for it's content as he is.
mahina
(17,642 posts)Should be the last article of hers published.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,669 posts)Why she let him have her space is a fair question but she didn't write it.
Biophilic
(3,645 posts)I try to avoid her, but over the years I've noticed that every Thanksgiving she gives Kevin her spot to spew his garbage. I haven't read her since she was so hung up on bringing Hillary down. For the last 8 months or so I have hardly glanced at the Times which my sister gets every morning. I've learned that it's not good for my inner well being.
spooky3
(34,438 posts)NRaleighLiberal
(60,014 posts)Response to DetlefK (Original post)
Eyeball_Kid This message was self-deleted by its author.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,669 posts)It's always a good idea to actually read something before commenting on it.
Eyeball_Kid
(7,430 posts)Nonetheless, that the NYT published this piece of trash is notable. Maureen Dowd should publicly disown the views of her brother.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,669 posts)Could be some family issues there.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Pffft.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,669 posts)before having hissy fits.
kcr
(15,315 posts)would be a better fit elsewhere.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)But I despise fake news, especially here. Ymmv.
Ms. Toad
(34,060 posts)and defending on the merits.
kcr
(15,315 posts)It can be very telling. For instance, ignoring the fact that it matters she gave her column over to her rightwing brother, as some are doing in this thread. Or insisting that fact is another matter entirely when it isn't.
Ms. Toad
(34,060 posts)Did not discuss whether it matters that she gave the column over to her rightwing brother - because the OP believed Dowd had written it.
Whether it matters that she gave her column to her rightwing brother is opinion, not fact, and not even an opinion expressed by the OP.
So to address the factual errors in the OP, there is no inherent need to address an opinion that wasn't even expressed in the OP that it matters that she gave the column over to her rightwing brother.
There are a lot of times I see factual errors, but don't feel like getting into a discussion on whatever correction of the facts might generate. In those instances the lack of preemptive commentary on whatever opinions might be generated by the factual correction means absolutely nothing, other than I didn't feel like having that discussion. What I cared about was, literally, correcting false news: that Dowd wrote the piece complained about.
kcr
(15,315 posts)I'm protesting the manner of the correction. I am wondering however, how it can be that thinking it matters she gave her column to her right wing brother is opinion, but thinking that it doesn't matter is not? That's a neat trick.
Ms. Toad
(34,060 posts)Fact in the OP that is false.
Maureen Dowd didn't write it.
Searches the OP for any reference to Dowd giving the column to her brother . . . . finds none,
Searches the OP for opinions about Dowd giving the column to her brother . . . finds none.
The only fact to correct is the author of the piece.
It's not a "manner of correction." It is simply a factual correction. The OP said Dowd wrote the piece. The OP was wrong. I corrected it because I don't like fake news, I don't like watching people react to fake news as if it is the truth, and I don't like the reality that some of them will go post it on facebook as truth, tweet about it as truth, use it as the basis of conversations with friends and neighbors, etc.
Several posters brushed off the correction, suggesting it didn't matter that the OP got their facts wrong. While it is certainly a valid opinion that Dowd is as responsible for the piece as if she had written it, I care far less about that narrow question than I do about progressives adopting a phenomenon that has long been part of the right wing MO: that truth is subservient to political opinion - rather than being a foundation we use to support our political opinion.
Encouraging us to be more careful about facts goes to the core of who we are (or who we used to be, or who I hope we will return to being). I care more about that than about opinions on one small issue. I don't want to dilute the importance of speaking truth by engaging in side conversations that are founded on truth not being important (i.e. it doesn't matter that the OP got their facts wrong - all that matters is how bad Dowd is, so if our facts were wrong we'll just find alternate facts to support our condemnation. )
So at least 9 times out of 10 when I correct a factual error that's all I will do - and I will resist being dragged into a discussion
a "what if" discussion that I might even have engaged in, had the OP not gotten their facts wrong.
Ms. Toad
(34,060 posts)to factual corrections, and impute motives to those making the factual corrections when the actual facts don't align with their political bias.
kcr
(15,315 posts)would give over their own columns willy nilly to anyone, if they had one. Give me a break. Pretending that it doesn't matter that she allowed that column under her own byline is disingenuous at best.
Ms. Toad
(34,060 posts)Some of us care about accuracy in the news, and find it particularly disturbing when progressives participate in spreading it. Period.
No one who corrects fake news is obligated to engage in a discussion on all of the political implications that might follow from the facts, had they been stated correctly by the OP in the first place.
kcr
(15,315 posts)It's not the correction of the fact. It's the correction of the fact as if it matters. I'm sorry, but if a columnist gives their space to a trump loving relative with their byline on it, then it doesn't matter that they didn't write it. Effectively, they wrote it.
Ms. Toad
(34,060 posts)The OP got the facts wrong. Period.
If you want to talk about whether she should have given her space to her right wing brother - start a thread! Or invite discussion here. But make it an invitation, not a condemnation of the motives of those who entered the discussion solely to correct the factual representation in the OP.
Doing so diminishes the importance some of us attach to halting the spread of fake news by insisting that anyone who corrects facts is we ALSO obligated have to engage in a discussion that might have taken place had the OP not gotten their facts wrong.
gay texan
(2,441 posts)Gidney N Cloyd
(19,833 posts)gay texan
(2,441 posts)Gidney N Cloyd
(19,833 posts)Response to DetlefK (Original post)
KY_EnviroGuy This message was self-deleted by its author.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,669 posts)Doesn't anybody actually read the linked piece before posting?
cwydro
(51,308 posts)The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,669 posts)cwydro
(51,308 posts)Youd think the OP would edit.
I wont hold my breath.
Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)under her byline. In the end whether she wrote it or not, she is responsible for it.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,669 posts)and it wasn't. I don't like her; she's snarky for the sake of snark and she tends to snark at the wrong people. But she's not a Trumper and never has been. If we want to criticize her for posting it in her column space, fine. That's fair criticism. But it's not the same as saying she wrote it herself because she didn't, and I doubt very much that her brother's opinion is anywhere close to hers.
Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)But she still has a responsibility for publishing it under her name.
kcr
(15,315 posts)She isn't absolved simply because she let someone else have her space to write pro-Trump drivel. To point out that she herself didn't write it doesn't change what it is. You can point out that she didn't write it. But it doesn't matter.
jimfields33
(15,768 posts)Lawsuit proceed Im sure.
CanonRay
(14,098 posts)jimfields33
(15,768 posts)Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)under her byline.
Voltaire2
(13,008 posts)Roisin Ni Fiachra
(2,574 posts)W_HAMILTON
(7,862 posts)Autumn
(45,050 posts)Response to Autumn (Reply #31)
CTyankee This message was self-deleted by its author.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,669 posts)as the intro to the piece clearly states.
CTyankee
(63,901 posts)cwydro
(51,308 posts)You have inside info that shes an alcoholic?
And btw, she didnt write it, dear.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)She makes that clear.
BainsBane
(53,029 posts)what would be okay about allowing my brother to do my job, and he's not even a lunatic.
Martin Eden
(12,863 posts)More than 20,000 LIES in less than four years justifies TRUST??!!!
Don't look for cheese on Maureen Dowd's cracker. It slipped off.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,669 posts)I don't know why she let him have her space, unless it was to let him make an ass of himself, but she didn't write it. Read the damn thing!
Martin Eden
(12,863 posts)It needs to be corrected.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,669 posts)that is the subject of a post before commenting on it, since posters sometimes get it wrong. As has happened here.
Iggo
(47,549 posts)cwydro
(51,308 posts)She didnt write it. It was her trumper brother; she was making a point.
Whoosh!
radius777
(3,635 posts)Yes I know her brother wrote it, but she published it without critique. She's always written smarmy pieces that twist the knife in the backs of Dems, and seems to pine for the world of the 1950s where everybody knew their place and where a woman of her stature was well kept.
Her brother's worldview is absurd and bothsiderist. Dems and even some Repubs (Never-Trumpers) formed a resistance against a fascist strongman who was installed by Russia and who lost the popular vote by 3 million. He had no right being president, and any sane system would've weeded him out before he got that far. Trump's admin was a clown show and grift operation that did little to benefit anyone except his family, the one percent and racists.
Biden, otoh, is an institutionalist and bipartisan consensus seeker, and won despite the GOP voter suppression efforts aimed at the Dem base.
Hunting of the president (see Bill Clinton, Obama) has always been a Republican pasttime - so save it you racist little shitstain. You guys are cowards and sore losers whose time has come and gone.
tavernier
(12,376 posts)that Maureen Dowd wrote this, when you obviously know that its not true.
Why would you do this? Did you agree with the content?
obnoxiousdrunk
(2,910 posts)snowybirdie
(5,223 posts)Republican brother wrote it. She turns it over to him occasionally.
MFM008
(19,804 posts)MustLoveBeagles
(11,589 posts)PLEASE update your post to indicate that it was her brother not her that wrote this. Now that that's out of the way, why on earth is she allowing her brother's diatribe to run without comment? It's not like wingnuts are underrepresented in newspaper columns. I'll say this though: she didn't write this but she's still a hack. Why the New York Times wastes valuable ink and paper on her useless column is a mystery to me.
BGBD
(3,282 posts)Sections are trash. They should cut them everywhere.
Voltaire2
(13,008 posts)So Dowd is just trying to correct that problem.
Do I really need that sarcasm thing?
AmericanCanuck
(1,102 posts)Vinca
(50,261 posts)Sadly for Mo, I think she's a little long in the tooth for His Highness.
Ms. Toad
(34,060 posts)She she is not the one who wrote it. It was written by her brother.
frazzled
(18,402 posts)Instead she poured a cocktail for herself and offered what was said by her Republican brother.
Do you guys not understand snark, or do you just like to be outraged?
Remedial reading comprehension courses required.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Ive learned the OP apparently doesnt care about correcting a false post.
Good to know.
Youre so right on the remedial reading. Kinda sad so many DUers seem in need of it.
frazzled
(18,402 posts)an OP posts something controversial (and misleading to boot), and then doesnt reply at all to any of the dozens of countervailing responses, that theyre just in it to make trouble. Hope theyre enjoying getting so many fish to bite.
Yes, it saddens me that so many fail to read and consider, just going for the headline or for preconceived notions. But it worries me more that this so often coincides with an engagement in politics that gains its only pleasure from opposition and grievance. Its dangerous.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)support for Trump. Governor Andrew Cuomo opined that reporters were being disrespectful to Trump. Imagine that, reporters calling on Trump to stop lying and concede an election that he has clearly lost are being disrespectful?
kcr
(15,315 posts)Paladin
(28,252 posts)If so---why?
kcr
(15,315 posts)Apparently, that's all that matters.
Cameliano
(54 posts)After decades saying in same things, you all of a sudden say that she has "gone insane".
Grasswire2
(13,566 posts)Every time I see Peter Baker or Ken Vogel, I cringe.
Something's off. Really.
malaise
(268,913 posts)She's the definition of a tool
calimary
(81,209 posts)Crunchy Frog
(26,579 posts)I thought our side was supposed to be based in reality.
Ms. Toad
(34,060 posts)smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)And he got reamed in the comment section. Next time she chooses a guest to opine under her by-line, she might want to pick her dog instead.
Poiuyt
(18,122 posts)It's misleading