Proving Trump was in on the Jan 6th plan?

[Laura PourMeADrink]

Things that make you go hmmmmm:

1. CNN clip: "We're going to walk down to the Capitol and I'll be right there with you."

Was obviously a blatant lie and he had no intention of marching with them. Why?

And if he was that concerned about the count at the Capitol why didn't he set up his rally on the other end of the Mall?

2. Who was ultimately responsible for leaving Capitol police alone?

[no_hypocrisy]

1. Exhibit 2: His sons, Kimberly Guilfoyle, Corey Lewandowski, Tommy Tubberville,

Rudolph Giuliani, et al were all meeting in TRUMP'S DC hotel, in TRUMP'S private residence therein, to discuss how to further scuttle the election THE NIGHT BEFORE THE RIOTS/INSURRECTION.

And it's expected for us to believe that TRUMP wasn't advised of this meeting and its progress? He didn't have to be physically present to have knowledge and approval.

[triron]

5. Where is the damn media on this?!

[IcyPeas]

44. the media are busy with the latest shiny object..... marjorie taylor greene

[Laura PourMeADrink]

7. Trump was a perfect example of the need for phone tap.

One of the trump books someone talked about that. He spends hours and hours at night on the phone in the locked bedroom probably hatching plans. And none of that is recorded and there are no other witnesses.

Still don't understand why all these people thought that just because the final elector vote was delayed that trump could be president for four more years. Or was it just a last ditch effort?

[Laura PourMeADrink]

14. Tuberville pic at hotel on Jan 5

https://www.alreporter.com/2021/01/27/photos-posts-put-tuberville-in-trumps-hotel-on-jan-5-despite-him-denying-meeting/?amp&__twitter_impression=true



NATIONAL Photos put Tuberville in Trump’s hotel on Jan. 5 despite denying meeting

[Captain Zero]

22. Many many meetings. Many many phone calls.

Remember the president's daily schedule for many many days after the election. We need a full list of the meetings and phone calls.

[kentuck]

2. He was the person that chose January 6th.

He could have chosen any other day.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

3. I've heard people say that before might have been you LOL but

Picking that date seems to make sense to me if you were trying to stop the final count / certification?

Is it just because if you were in on the plan then you had to have all the people there on that day? I think a lot of them were just used as cover.

I think the whole "delay" thing is very curious to me. Like what was in their mind that a delay would have done? Other than literally killing the leadership? I know delay was vitally important because I think it might have been Rudy that texted people saying do whatever you can to delay it.

[LeftInTX]

20. We have free speech and we have the right to peacefully attend congress

Congress has a history of disrupters...However, I learned after January 6th, that there is law that allows congress to get their business done. In this video, Code Pink may have been arrested...(Wikipedia say they were, but they left peacefully)... However, they were arrested and charged in 2017.

I guess...sans Covid, protesters could have legally attended the joint session of congress after they got through security. (Going through metal detectors the legal way first) They could have held up signs. I guess they could have clapped or booed. Actions like this would have been legal if it wasn't for Covid.

Arrests during Senate hearing

Code Pink protesters showed up at the Senate Arms Services hearing to heckle Henry Kissinger and called him and chairman Senator John McCain war criminals. Senator McCain restored order and called for the Sergeant at Arms and the Capital Hill Police to escort Code Pink out of the building and called after them "Get out of here you lowlife scum!" [31]

Code Pink member Desiree Fairooz was arrested for laughing after a description of Senator Jeff Sessions by Alabama U.S. Senator Richard Shelby of the nominee as having a history of his "treating all Americans equally under the law is clear and well-documented," during the January 2017 confirmation hearing as United States Attorney General. After she had been convicted at trial, that verdict was reversed by the chief District Court Judge Robert Morin. The judge said Fairooz should not have been tried for laughing, only for speaking out as she was being removed, and called a mistrial. Instead of dismissing the case, Morin set her retrial for September.[32] Fairooz faced up to a year in prison and $2,000 in fines for disruptive and disorderly conduct and obstructing and impeding passage on US Capitol grounds.[33] On November 6, 2017, District of Columbia U.S. Attorney Jessie K. Liu filed a notice of nolle prosequi in the case against Desiree Fairooz.[34] Upon the decision, Code Pink released a statement calling the 3 trials a waste of time and tens of thousands of taxpayer dollars, adding, "These sentences are designed to discourage dissent and prevent activists from engaging in the daily protests that are taking place during a tumultuous time."[35] From the January 20th protests of the inauguration of Donald Trump, the United States Department of Justice is prosecuting 200 people on multiple felony charges.[34]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_Pink

When does disrupting become criminal? What happens when you have hundreds/thousands of people disrupting? When does it go beyond civil disobedience? When does it go beyond encouraging peaceful protest and encouraging free speech?

[ProfessorGAC]

46. I Looked This Up

I couldn't find anything about the EC certification process being open to the public.
I could find no references to any public disruptions of prior certifications.
And, I don't remember ever hearing that people attended them as spectators.
So, maybe they don't have the right to attend this event. COVID or no.
Perhaps the main reason the building was closed?

[LeftInTX]

47. I assume under non-Covid conditions, the public could attend.

As long as they don't interfere with the process I assume they could be there, if they go through security etc. I assume if people attended and protested by holding up signs and remaining silent, or wearing tee shirts etc, they would not be considered disrupting the session. They could also express their opinion by clapping or booing at the same time that congress claps. As long as they don't interfere with the session, they probably would be OK.

The capitol has limited visitors due to Covid.

[ProfessorGAC]

48. That Could Be

But, I read the PDF on the Archives, and there's no provision in the procedure for public attendance.
So, I guess we don't know if that right exists or not.
There's lots of committee hearings that are closed door. For good reasons, the vast majority of the time.

[LeftInTX]

49. In Texas, everything is pretty much open

That's why I assume things are open in DC

The EC event was very televised and not closed door. I see congress members getting their 15 minutes of fame. I imagine in days before TV, a few spectators would show up to witness.

We have open meeting laws in this country.

[ProfessorGAC]

50. Whatever

Those laws obviously do not apply to everything.
So, they aren't relevant to this discussion.
I'm not convinced the public is invited to the EC cert.
You are.
We can drop this now.

[LeftInTX]

51. Access to Congress

The galleries of the House and the Senate are open to the public whenever either body is in session, but gallery passes are required. You can obtain gallery passes from the office of your Senator or Representative (usually, any member can provide passes to both houses). There are three Senate office buildings and three House office buildings; to find the Senators and Representatives for your state, visit the Senate directory or the House directory.

http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/access-congress

[LeftInTX]

21. Maybe they thought by "delaying" and moving it away from the constitutional day of Jan 6th,

that they were invalidating the election.

Due to their actions, the certification of the electoral college happened on Jan 7th. I'm sure some sovereign citizen will try to invalidate the election due to the vote occurring on Jan 7th.

I'm surprised that when they reconvened late at night, Ted Cruz didn't get up in the senate with a smirk on his face, holding a copy of a pocket constitution and say, "Look, we can't certify this election, it's January 7th"

[Laura PourMeADrink]

25. Wow that's an; interesting thought. Hadn't heard it mentioned

It sure is better than thinking they were waiting for people to be killed.

[LeftInTX]

26. When they were leaving the capitol I heard them saying, "It was a success, we stopped the vote".

[Denzil_DC]

33. I believe Giluiani's idea was to buy time to try to pressure more state politicians

to jigger with the certification process and cry "Fraud!" He was still feverishly at it the day before certification:

President Trump's personal attorney Rudy Giuliani reportedly left a voicemail message for the wrong lawmaker late Wednesday as he was attempting to reach Sen. Tommy Tuberville (R-Ala.) in an effort to stall Congress’s certification of the results of the 2020 presidential election.

According to The Dispatch, Giuliani recorded a voicemail message addressed to Tuberville at approximately 7 p.m., saying that wanted to discuss how congressional leaders were “trying to rush this hearing and how we need you, our Republican friends, to try to just slow it down so we can get these legislatures to get more information to you."
...

However, the president’s attorney left the message on the voicemail of another senator, whom the online conservative news outlet did not identify.

.@stephenfhayes SCOOP: Rudy Giuliani tried calling Sen. Tuberville tonight asking him to object to the election results in 10 states.

"I know we would delay you a lot, but it would give us the opportunity to get the legislators who are very, very close to pulling their vote." pic.twitter.com/EkRaR2EAGe
— The Dispatch (@thedispatch) January 7, 2021

https://thehill.com/homenews/news/533086-giuliani-calls-wrong-senator-in-pressuring-them-to-continue-objecting-votes

Invading the Capitol was just a more desperate and dramatic way to achieve the same thing.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

34. slow it down so we can get these legislatures to get more information to you."

Legislatures? Meaning other legislators? To get more information to you ?


That's a WOW... In my mind . What does that mean? My first thought goes to them rummaging through the notes of Rep's desks! Remember? And the crazy people running around screaming ... I think to distract. But could this be what rudy was talking about? The intruders were trying to get info to feedback to someone for Rudy to feed back to the rest of Republicans??

[Denzil_DC]

35. Who knows?

By "legislatures", he means the state governing bodies.

I'm not sure even Rudy's overtaxed brain imagined that the blueprints for the biglyest election fraud ever would be stashed on or in reps' desks in the Capitol. I don't know what the random rummagers in the invasion thought they might find. Blueprints of pizza parlor basements and all sorts of unspeakable sordidity perhaps.

I took it as more likely he meant more of the same guff they'd been spouting at the media and in court from various state politicos they were trying to strongarm into giving them some sort of pretext to stand up their claims of fraud.

They hadn't entirely given up on the menacing phone calls etc. at that point, and maybe thought they might eventually hit lucky with more of the same.

Or maybe we're flattering Giuliani, Trump et al. more than is warranted by assuming they had any sort of coherent plan, rather than just flailing wildly. That would be par for the course.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

36. Oh ok... Thought it was just a typo... But have since read the

full transcript. So guess it really was legislatures not legislaTORS. Adds another dimension. Means trump/rudy were interacting with states at the same time as federal legislators AND a riot going on. Quite the multitaskers!

It was I suppose the last ditch, all out effort to the nth degree.

Also read that they were pissed at McConnell for agreeing to only objecting to 3 states instead of 10 and they were hoping to get some to change votes because of that.

PS. Funny comment on Twitter... About all the misscalls Rudy made. "Someone needs to buy him a Jitterbug easy to read/operate for seniors"

[Laura PourMeADrink]

37. Did you read NYT expose on all this in paper yesterday ?

[Denzil_DC]

38. What, this one?

77 Days: Trump’s Campaign to Subvert the Election
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/31/us/trump-election-lie.html

If so, yes. It's pretty sketchy about the period we're discussing. The earlier details are interesting, but we've known much of the later dynamics from other media for a while.

[TwilightZone]

4. No.

As noted, it was the day the count was being certified. That was the entire point - stop the certification.

[Lars39]

6. He talks of "Wild Protest"...

When was the brochure printed that depicted the Capitol building as the "Wild Protest?"

[Laura PourMeADrink]

8. Wow hadn't heard about that

[Lars39]

9. I have it bookmarked

I’ll try to find it.

[Lars39]

29. I found it!

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100214922889

[LeftInTX]

31. Hmm...I notice that many on that list were not at the Capitol.....

They knew it would be illegal.

[Lars39]

32. Indeed!

[Laura PourMeADrink]

11. Oh you mean an announcement about a protest? Strikes

me that however misguided and anti-government a protest is gonna be one could still say it wasn't illegal?

I was talking more about him knowing that part of the mob was gonna break in a possibility kidnap or kill people in power. I think Flynn a place to start.

[Lars39]

13. Not an announcement as such,

as a tie-in to the rally list of speakers, maps. The map clearly showed that the Capitol building was designated "Wild Protest".
Flynn and his brother Flynn need to be questioned.

[triron]

10. Wonder why the FBI hasn't arrested him yet?

[Laura PourMeADrink]

12. No proof? I think I'd indict Flynn and put him under a light

For a couple weeks

[triron]

15. It was televised.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

16. Yes the riot. Want to pin the planning of it on trump

[bdamomma]

18. where has he been???

Flynn. Slithering away like snakes.

[bdamomma]

17. what I hear from certain

reports on TV that tRump was "gleeful" watching the insurrection on TV.

[LeftInTX]

19. He is responsible as Potus because of his public actions and words.

Impeachable because he is Potus. As a private citizen, there is not yet criminal proof.

(For instance no proof of him calling people like roger stone et al and saying, "Hey get a bunch of violent people and overthrow the government for me".) However Trump knew the capacity of the gang at the WH and did not discourage it...

TBH: Some of us on DU were watching the rally ahead of the vote...When Trump said he was gonna march to the capitol, most of us started laughing. "He's gonna take a golf cart"....When protestors showed up at the capitol, I didn't think anything because it's Washington DC. Never occurred to me that they would not have enough security. When they breached barricades, I freaked out.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

23. Yes. Sounds like we're too early for impeachment without

more proof with planning. And we can't indict him since he was prez.

So, once again, he's gonna get away with it.

I was watching it unfold on CSPAN. You know how low- key they are. It was super scary from their in the building pov.

[LeftInTX]

24. Check out this thread that just popped up!!

https://democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=15019853

Lark states that we can't use this in the impeachment hearings....(Darn. I don't know why)
Still it's damning....finally.....

[Laura PourMeADrink]

28. Thanks... Just went there.

[theneworiginal]

43. They didn't just leave the front door open...

they held it and said come on in. Literally, they dismantled protections in order to make this happen. These orders came from the Top.

[triron]

40. Of course he can be indicted. He's out of office.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

41. You're right, got confused between indictment during

presidency and crime during presidency.

[triron]

42. You've been drinking again. Just kidding.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

45. Hungover! Four year spree

[triron]

30. As Michael Cohen has said, Trump doesn't work that way. He uses code.

Trump is essentially a (super) mob boss. Super refers to the mob not to Trump.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

39. That is a very good point. So he may have just gone overboard

with all his lackies to get it done - stop the final certification and they arranged? But someone had to tell him something... Or he wouldn't have gotten them to march down there. Plus he didn't call National Guard in and replaced pentagon people before 1-6.

Where's a good wire tap when you need it? And remember how Omarosa recorded him? Wish someone else had. But guess he got rid of everyone that wasn't his ultimate loyalist.

[Hortensis]

27. Yes, and his actions over 4 years also form a pattern of planned coup.

In hindsight, given his failure to secure the support/control of the military, judiciary, press, communications, and one chamber of congress, I suspect the coup was actually lost in the 2018 midterms when the Republicans lost control of the house to the Democrats, and with it the ability of both houses of congress to abdicate their authority to the presidency. It's going to be interesting to read about in future.