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Thu Apr 8, 2021, 12:45 AM

To Hell With Joe Manchin!!!

His op-ed made me furious. Not only will he not even reform the filibuster, but he will oppose Bidenís infrastructure bill if they hold a vote through reconciliation. He will doom us all.

We need to get our asses to the polls in 2022 and pack the senate so we can drown out that blue dog.

Biden needs to use the bully pulpit technique and force him to vote our way.

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Response to Indyfan53 (Original post)

Thu Apr 8, 2021, 12:50 AM

1. I think it is a betrayal to his voters. However, we need his vote no matter how distasteful

it sometimes is. I personally think it is more of an ego trip than ideology.

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Response to walkingman (Reply #1)

Thu Apr 8, 2021, 12:54 AM

4. Agree! Biden and Schumer know how to pressure him.

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Response to PortTack (Reply #4)

Thu Apr 8, 2021, 01:48 AM

8. give him the airport named after him he wants and let's be done with him

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Response to Indyfan53 (Original post)

Thu Apr 8, 2021, 12:53 AM

2. It's not over yet. He already said he would go along with a 25% tax hike rather than 28%

schumer knows how to pressure him. Finestein has broken, recently saying she would be willing to change the filibuster rule if qgop continues to road block

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Response to Indyfan53 (Original post)

Thu Apr 8, 2021, 12:54 AM

3. Biden needs to go full LBJ on him

Because him and Sinema are holding the door open for voting rights to be completely extinct. They are welcoming GQP facist rule

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Response to vercetti2021 (Reply #3)

Thu Apr 8, 2021, 02:21 AM

12. Exactly

And anti-voting rights laws could affect their own elections. Opposing reform or elimination of the filibuster is stupid as well as being naive.

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Response to vercetti2021 (Reply #3)

Thu Apr 8, 2021, 06:30 AM

16. Do that and he likely flips parties

WV's governor already proved it's possible and viable politically for Manchin.

Let's not get greedy and end up with nothing.

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Response to Indyfan53 (Original post)

Thu Apr 8, 2021, 12:55 AM

5. the available options are not that good nt

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Response to msongs (Reply #5)

Thu Apr 8, 2021, 02:56 AM

14. You are correct, unfortunately.

Manchin (not even counting the potentially even more radical Sinema, who wants to move to a 60 vote threahold for ALL Senate action) can singlehandedly stop all major Biden legislation. He can can even bring all reconciliation-enabled legislation to a dead stop.

IF he actually follows through and does all this (blocking the voting rights bills especially will fuck us and the country badly, so badly) he is going to go down in history as the most hated Democrat in history since the worst of the old bull Dixiecrats.

IF he insists on bi-partisan bills (and this begs the question, what is a bi-partisan bill on the Manchinian scale) we are fucked. I so doubt even Collins and Murkowski break for us. Even if 5 Rethugs, 7 Rethugs do come over, we still do not have the 60 votes (which Manchin has said he will never vote to do away with, so down goes the talking filibuster reform option) for cloture for anything not germane to reconciliation.

Finally, he also is now saying he will not even accept goddamn reconciliation. IF he actually does that, Biden's agenda is completely dead (as is our party) in the water.

All this over a not at all certian re-election almost 4 years from now, an election that does us fuckall good if we lose the Senate (and even more likely the House) in 2022 and then fail again in 2024.

Dire situation we are in. We have zero real leverage on either Manchin or Sinema. Both can bolt the Party at any time as well if we go straight head cracking mode on them in a desperate attempt to force their hand.

It is pointless to primary Manchin. He is the only Dem who can win WV. Sinema, on the other hand, likely needs to go go go. Kelly has the exact same voters and is nothing like her in terms of insane demands for this pantomime bi-partisanship and its resultant gridlock, and he Is FAR more popular than she is. We need to find another Kelly, a centre left moderate who is NOT an obstructionist, doesn't have delusional thoughts of needing 60 votes for ALL Senate action, and will not vote with a RW thug like Trump around 60% of the time, which Sinema (as did Manchin) did in the 115th Congress.

Unless Manchin and Sinema are playing Olympian level bluffing games, we are headed for massive, systemically sustained trouble.

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Response to Indyfan53 (Original post)

Thu Apr 8, 2021, 12:59 AM

6. Careful, I got a thread deleted for "bashing a Democrat"

but I understand your feeling.

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Response to Coventina (Reply #6)

Thu Apr 8, 2021, 01:06 AM

7. It needed to be said.

Anyone in our party who betrays us needs to be called out.

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Response to Coventina (Reply #6)

Fri Apr 9, 2021, 12:25 AM

17. I got busted for that too

Wish du would make an exception regarding Manchin and Sinema

Why because they are frustrating the hell out of people.

Duers are watching this and need to speak out honestly about it and how it makes us feel.

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Response to Indyfan53 (Original post)

Thu Apr 8, 2021, 01:48 AM

9. You know what else needs to be said ...

Why are we fighting over 25 or 28% When, in Eisenhower's day and all the way up to Regan it was 70%. Regan dropped it to 35%.

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Response to Indyfan53 (Original post)

Thu Apr 8, 2021, 02:00 AM

10. And he can take his precious, stupid filibuster with him

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Response to Indyfan53 (Original post)

Thu Apr 8, 2021, 02:14 AM

11. The Neville Chamberlain of our times.

He will consign the us to the flames with this hapless, thoughtless pose.

I am ashamed of him, as an American.

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Response to Indyfan53 (Original post)

Thu Apr 8, 2021, 02:52 AM

13. Doesnt want to lose his power..that asshat! n/t

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Response to Indyfan53 (Original post)

Thu Apr 8, 2021, 03:25 AM

15. Realistically, that is the only way is acquiring enough seats in 2022 in the Senate, so we don't

need Manchin and Sinema in the Senate, and maintaining the majority in the House

In the meantime we will get the infrastructure bill through reconciliation, and other bills that we can accomplish with additional reconciliation bills, that will build us the support we need to win seats in 2022, along with appointing as many justices as we can



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