Per MSNBC Zoom interview, 'good guy with a gun' tried to stop FedEx shooter, was shot and killed

[Celerity]

Just another real life, tragic debunking of that ludicrous RW talking point.

[Warpy]

1. People with guns and hero complexes seem to think bad guys who are shooting

will somehow stop while they rummage for the gun, load it, chamber a round, flip the safety off, and aim.

That's not going to happen. The shooter is already shooting and if somebody is reaching for something or handling something, s/he will be the next target.

That 2A propaganda talking point was always garbage. I've only seen that good guy with a licensed, concealed gun make a difference once, and that was against a perp with a knife. Yes, he probably saved a life by killing the perp, but if the perp had been shooting, he'd have been one more chalk outline that day.

Guns don't make anyone safer. They just make you the next one to get shot if you pull one in a tense situation with either an active shooter or the cops.

[SoonerPride]

2. The way to stop a bad buy with a gun is

A good guy with a law banning guns.

It works.

It won’t happen here.

But it’s the solution.

More people need to say it.

Repeal the second amendment.

[Warpy]

17. Funny, I'm not anti gun

I live out west and outside the city, it's rough country. Bears are a real problem, especially in spring and fall. Long guns are necessary.

It's semi auto killing machines of all types I want to see gone. They just make it too easy.

[murielm99]

26. I live in the country.

I am not out west, but we have long guns. There are plenty of pests here who damage our property. We use the guns when necessary.

[Ilsa]

35. I'm fine with keeping the long guns and

muskets. Strick background checks with a license after passing a strict test and gun course, and getting bonded.

Rattlesnakes, javelina, wild hogs, etc can be dangerous around family pets and family.

[paleotn]

38. Bingo....

I live in the north country of New England where folks save their vacation time not just for summer and the Thanksgiving / Christmas holidays....but for huntin' season. Long guns in actual hunting calibers and no semi-auto are all that's necessary.

[NH Ethylene]

48. I think many people feel that way. There aren't two extremes as often portrayed.

There are the gun zealots and there are some who'd like to outlaw all guns. But most seem to be regular people who are fine with the right to own a gun but want to limit war-like weaponry and too-easy access.

[Mysterian]

61. I'm in the same camp

I say ban semi-autos and handguns. Handguns are the big problem when it comes to crime.

You can hunt, protect your home and even fight tyranny with bolt actions and shotguns.

[azureblue]

45. and the bad guys

are bad aims, like in star wars...

[in2herbs]

3. At one point, since there is not the will to regulate 2A, there was a discussion about taxing

ammo bc it's not addressed in the Constitution. What would be involved with taxing ammo to the max and then using those funds to help the victims pay their medical or funeral bills?

[WarGamer]

56. that would be problematic.

Minneapolis Star Tribune Co. v. Commissioner

The ruling finds that state tax systems cannot treat the press differently from any other business without significant and substantial justification.


Now... apply that to another Constitutional protection, the 2A. An ammo tax would be seen as a de facto gun ban. In the current SCOTUS, it'd be done.

[WHITT]

4. These RightWing Clowns

who think they can use a hangun to take on a mass shooter with an assault rifle have been watching too many 'Die Hard' movies.

[JI7]

5. It's a right wing fantasy. In their mind they see themselves as heroically

saving the day by taking out the bad guys who they picture as black or brown.

[mainer]

6. A handgun vs. an AR15. No contest.

The "good guy" would still be alive if he'd just run.

[NutmegYankee]

10. And has never been.

A .223 has over 3x the velocity. In addition to being out-ranged (huge mismatch), the energy on impact can be measured as .5MV^2. With 3x velocity, an impact has 9x the energy. Despite the smaller diameter of a .223, the wound cavity is bigger based on the velocity and the .223 has a tendency to tumble and fragment resulting in multiple internal wound cavities.

Add in the design of an AR with the bolt kicking back through the center of gravity, and often the stock also mitigates the recoil, and you have a rifle than can be easily held on target while a handgun has a tendency to climb because the slide recoils above the center of gravity.

Anyone packing a pistol should run.

[Ligyron]

37. Yaw, I agree.

[paleotn]

39. Run....hide......

fight as only a last ditch, no other alternative, resort. And in that order. It's drummed into our heads on site every year. A pity such things have to be drummed at all. Didn't use to be this way.

[BoringUsername]

7. Their talking points suck

😾😠

[bullwinkle428]

8. When the cops show up, and there are 6 different people running around

brandishing guns, who do they shoot first?

[Ferrets are Cool]

11. The non-Caucasian ones of course

[uponit7771]

53. THIS !!!! ☝🏾☝🏾☝🏾

[Ferrets are Cool]

58. +1

[paleotn]

40. Bingo!!!

[Rebl2]

41. Exactly

[ecstatic]

50. Yep. It would be foolish to get involved in such a gunfight unless

the GGWAG had a clear sight of the shooter and was skilled enough to take him (and only him) down with one shot. Or if the shooter literally breaches the GGWAG's hiding spot.

[Binkie The Clown]

9. I watched a video of a mock invasion and mass shooting where there were good guys with guns

who tried to stop it. If it had been a real situation with real guns every single one of the good guys with guns would have been killed.

I wish I could remember where I saw it to post the link, but it was years ago.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

20. Some years back one of the news magazines,

maybe Dateline, maybe some other, did more or less that. They found people who were gun owners, who were pretty confident they were skilled enough to know what to do in a situation. So they set them up with a gun and a scenario where shooting a "bad guy" seemed reasonable. Invariably, they'd have been shooting innocent bystanders first.

And none of these gun owners came across as anything other than calmly certain they could handle a situation appropriately.

[DallasNE]

25. That Would Especially Be The Case

If the shooter had an AR-15 type weapon and the "good guys" had pistols, even semi-automatic pistols.

[sarisataka]

12. A gun isn't a shield

But maybe he distracted the shooter long enough to save someone else's life. The thought may provide an iota of comfort to his family.

[LanternWaste]

13. Idle speculation is as good as any.

[sarisataka]

14. I guarantee my speculation

Is worth every penny you paid for it, money back guarantee if you're not satisfied

[bucolic_frolic]

15. It's called Republican Wild West Mythology

caused by watching too many Reagan movies.

[Aristus]

16. And by too little study of the real Old West.

Where gun control was much more stringent than it is today.

[IcyPeas]

18. so wait, there was a guy with a gun at the place but they can't have their phones?

they are allowed to bring a gun onto their workfloor? but not their phones?

this is screwed up.

[spooky3]

23. Same question nt

[Celerity]

27. No, it was outside, the gun was in a truck, retrieved by the 'good guy', but the shooter

blew the 'good guy with a gun' away.

[IcyPeas]

28. thank you for the clarification.

[Celerity]

29. yw!

[IcyPeas]

30. I was going to ask also..... was the gun in a fed ex truck?

[Celerity]

32. The eye witness on the Zoom call (who was very credible) did not say exactly, but I am fairly

certain it was a private vehicle based off his recalling of the events.

[IcyPeas]

33. ah, okay. thanks again Celerity.

[IronLionZion]

19. Shootings are stressful for anyone involved

whether it's a police officer or a civilian with a gun. And it would be extra hard to tell who is good and bad when several people are firing guns.

[DallasNE]

22. Unless He Had A Semi-automatic Weapon

He was greatly overmatched. People just don't understand the fire power of those military type weapons. But this does expose that good guy fallacy.

Still, the distraction could have given other people the time to get out of the line of fire meaning he could have saved lives - at a terrible cost.

[The Jungle 1]

24. Wonder what happens when the cops show up and the good guy is there with a gun.

It will happen.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

31. If the cops are sufficiently high on adrenaline...

... the "good guy" might get shot over 30 times, like the Dayton shooter (bad guy) in 2019. The smaller-caliber police gunfire can be heard at about the 20-second mark of this video:

[Hulk]

34. As long as we keep assault rifles on the streets....

.... nobody stands a chance against these sick maniacs

[ShazzieB]

42. Sad but true! 😟

[Initech]

36. What could go wrong in a mass shooting? Crossfire.

It's bad enough having bullets fly at you in one direction...

[alphafemale]

43. The fallacy of that argument is that a mass shooter comes into an ordinary situation

intending to kill a large number of people in a couple minutes.

Even someone with a gun on their person is not going to be ready for that.

[paleotn]

44. Wild west fantasy land...

for people who really need to come to grips with their irrational fears.

When Dodge City, KS incorporated in the 1870's, the first law passed by the town fathers banned the carrying of firearms in town.

[oldsoftie]

46. Well, at least he/she tried. Up against a rifle with a pistol, you better have surprise.

Sad.

[stevesinpa]

47. this was just a scene in a movie, but it was accurate.

i forget what the name of the movie was, but in one scene, Jason Statham needs a car and he goes up to a man and points his small gun at him. i dont know much about guns, he just had a small pistol. the other man looks at the gun and smiles and lifts his shirt to display the larger pistol he had tucked in his waist band. i dont know much about guns but i cant believe that is a safe way to carry a firearm.
to which Jason Statham shoots the man in the leg. Statham's character got what he needed.
moral of the story, i dont care if you have a gun on your person, if the other person has his/her gun already in hand, your gun is useless.

[Oneironaut]

49. Sorry, but, the AR-15 needs to be more regulated.

Want to own one? You can, but, you should need a special license to do so that you have to renew yearly.

It’s insanity at this point that we haven’t banned it outright. However, we can meet gun owners in the middle. It’s a mass shooter’s dream weapon.

[YMB]

51. Im not sure how thats "De-bunkable"

Just because you have a gun against a shooter doesnt mean youre going to succeed. It just means the percentage likelihood of succeeding is higher, which is the point.

[ProfessorGAC]

54. Pretty Weak Sauce

If the premise is that the odds are greater than zero, well ok. That's not what the hypergun folks claim.
While anecdotal, this is proof that "good guy with a gun" is not the panacea gun nuts choose to promote.
Nobody was saved and what stopped the shooting was the guy blowing himself away.
The good guy accomplished nothing.
So, it is debunked because the gun propaganda promotes this as a "solution".

[calimary]

52. Sigh...

... and it continues.

I'm SORRY! This is NOT ACCEPTABLE!

When does this end? When do enough of us come to our senses and confront reality, and GET RID OF these massacre machines?

[CTyankee]

55. Is there still a gun section on DU? I had to hide it years ago and occasionally wonder if it is stil

here. As someone who has had gun violence resulting in death in my own family, I take this very personally, so hiding that section was the best thing I could do. But it still grates on me that gun "rights" gets its own section here at DU.

[Paladin]

57. There are a couple of them: one "pro", one "anti".

The "pro" one (Gun Control & RKBA) isn't nearly as lively as it was, years ago. The "anti" one (Gun Control Reform Activism) barely has a pulse.

[CTyankee]

59. Hopefully, the "pro" one is as dying as the whole gun rights argument has been over the past few

years of more death and suffering. Maybe we'll have the chance to change things when old justices die off and we have a better set of justices. Maybe I'll live to see it.

[SYFROYH]

60. Whether with a gun or without, people who confront shooters are brave.

Seems like there are folks who taking political delight in this victim’s death.