General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsDo you think that gyms are safe if you are vaccinated?
What about restaurants? Malls? How are we feeling at this time about the progress made on fighting the Corona Virus?
Throck
(2,520 posts)Dawson Leery
(19,348 posts)Throck
(2,520 posts)The north east is in excellent shape.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)My part of Florida has good vaccinated rates. Some of the rural counties are less than 30%.
I would go to a gym here. But in the dumb ass parts of Florida maybe not.
we can do it
(12,184 posts)Id say yes if masking, no if not. I do not trust others who are not masking indoors.
Dawson Leery
(19,348 posts)we can do it
(12,184 posts)None of them seem to wear masks and I doubt half of them are vaccinated. They were anti mask bullying last year. Im in Delaware and we are at 70 percent vaxxed now.
I'm comfortable with pretty much any of my normal activities.
beaglelover
(3,467 posts)femmedem
(8,201 posts)Last week the Delta variant was a bit over 13% of new cases here. The previous week, Delta was less than 4% of new cases. In my city of approximately 30,000 people, we had zero cases last Friday through last Sunday, then four new cases Monday through Wednesday.
I went to a restaurant for lunch yesterday--the first time in a year and a half. I felt safe-ish, but I think that within a couple of weeks, cases will have risen rapidly. My restaurant excursion might have been my last for quite a while.
Bleacher Creature
(11,256 posts)My plan is to go during really quiet times, and stay masked the whole time. I'm in the DC area, so vaccination rates are good.
bearsfootball516
(6,377 posts)As long as you're fully vaccinated, you're safe to enjoy everyday activities without masks without fear of infection.
Ms. Toad
(34,066 posts)GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)And lots of counties do. The WHO looks at the entire globe.
Not all vaccines are equal.
Chile had a large percentage of vaccinated people getting it even before Delta. We havent.
And Chile used the Chinese vaccine.
Ms. Toad
(34,066 posts)not much I can do to change your mind. I just hope you don't contribute to creating more variants or expose any 0-11 year olds while you play Russian Roulette with your own health.
Given the decreased effectiveness of mRNA vaccines against Delta (88% v 95%) and the 60% higher infection rate, the exposure that would have created 100 COVID cases in unvaccinated individuals will create 19.2 Delta COVID cases in those vaccinated with mRNA vaccines - and at least 40 Delta COVID cases in those vaccinated with J&J (likely more, since we don't know what the drop in effectiveness of the J&J vaccines against Delta).
Far too many people are ignorant of how to read snapshots of a particular moment in time, and have extrapolated the minimal risk well beyond what the numbers actually represent.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)Using your scenarios if Im in unvaccinated I have a 100% chance of catching Covid. I do not have an 89% chance of catching it. If so I would have already had it. It assumes Im exposed to the virus in enough concentration to actually get it. My community has a decent vaccination rate. So that alone decreases my chances of being exposed to it. And we have a lot of people who had it, further decreasing my chances.
And Ive never been a fan of big crowds. So that further minimizes my chance. And while I dont go to the gym, I eat out often. But because in Florida usually outdoors. None of this is because of Covid but its what Ive always done.
For a year we have heard on DU listen to the CDC. And I did. Masked like crazy. And it kept me safe. Since the CDC changed their recommendation it is suddenly not to be believed. And since that time we keep reading posts about how Covid is about to explode again. And in parts of the country like Missouri and east Texas with abysmal vaccination rates its going up again. As expected. But there there has been no explosion. Its almost a month since Memorial Day. Our cases here continue to go down.
I do not criticize those who continue to take serious precautions. If I were older I might.
But the numbers I read make me comfortable resuming my normal life. Except if I go to the grocery when crowded. I wear my mask then.
Could I catch Covid? Sure. Could it kill me? Yeah. But I studied statistics and weighing the odds Im comfortable not masking most of the time. I have as great a chance of dying in a car crash than from Covid. Others opinions may differ.
Cosmocat
(14,564 posts)and I went an entire year plus, from when the pandemic started getting serious March of 2020 until about two weeks ago without stepping foot in my gym.
Its a really spacious planet fitness, and we are not piled onto each other at all, I got vacinnated about two months ago and our area is open.
Glad to be back, thought I upped my jogging when I was off and ran more the last year since before we had the kids.
apcalc
(4,463 posts)Two other people in the room
about 30 away . People in my area (Philly burbs) are generally vaccinated.
Ive been coming about a month-all good.
There is a local Y with many more attendees
and rarely I go there
mask up each time.
KY_EnviroGuy
(14,490 posts)That would depend on the individual gym and their quality of air treatment and cleanliness of the place. Masks are almost completely ineffective when people are breathing heavily, especially on the exhale side and most of the masks in common usage don't seal very well on the inhale side.
The world appears to be in for a long slog with this damn thing because large areas still don't take this seriously and many undeveloped nations simply can't afford to attack it properly. Humans are simply too territorial and selfish to attack a common problem efficiently, even when it's deadly. Europe and other areas are already having to take back steps away from opening up, mostly due to the Delta variant.
Being in a high risk category, I'm not yet changing my public exposure habits and probably won't until these viruses mutations die down.
KY
Arkansas Granny
(31,515 posts)The vaccination rate for my country is 25%. Our positivity rate is somewhere between 15% and 20%.
I'm keeping most of my Covid routine in place.
beaglelover
(3,467 posts)Are they afraid of the vaccine because it's not fully approved yet? Or do they not believe COVID-19 is a real thing? Vaccines are plentiful now and I just don't understand why someone who could get the shots, will not get the shots.
beaglelover
(3,467 posts)I'm fully vaccinated and no longer wear a mask anywhere unless it is mandated by the business or workplace I am visiting. It's so nice to be living an almost normal life again. FREEDOM!!!
doc03
(35,326 posts)to my life before the COVID. When the weather gets cold I plan on going back to the gym. For now I get my exercise bike riding and grass curtting.
Klaralven
(7,510 posts)It sort of depended...
beaglelover
(3,467 posts)As long as you're vigilant about washing your hands thoroughly after visiting the gym you should be fine.
Many years ago I got a super nasty stomach virus from the gym. Probably picked up fecal matter somewhere. Man was I sick sick sick for a couple of days. Never again!!
Klaralven
(7,510 posts)Really nasty cold / flu type symptoms.
Hopefully, restaurants never again let sick employees work until well.
Mr.Bill
(24,282 posts)gyms are bacterial cesspools. I used to own an upholstery shop about 20 years ago. A local gym used to bring me worn padded pieces to re-upholster. If you could see and smell those things when I took them apart you would never set foot in a gym as long as you live. And this was a high-end spa type of place and had several physical therapists working there using the place to do physical rehab.
I used to wear a mask and rubber gloves when I worked on that stuff.
eShirl
(18,490 posts)Mr.Bill
(24,282 posts)Communal bathing with people I don't even know? Really?
enid602
(8,615 posts)I'd hold off going to the gym until this fall, when we're well past Memorial Day, 4th of July, summer travel season, etc. See what the statistics look like them. HUGE outbreak of delta in Chile,where 64% of adults have had two shots. Good news is that very few hospitalizations of vaccinated people within the last two months.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)Which was failing at large rates even before Delta.
They were having way more breakthrough cases even before Delta. Not all vaccines are equal.
Not failing in Chile. Almost no deaths/hospitalizations among vaccinated. They are quite appreciative of the Chinese, and hate us for not taking more of a leadership role with regard to vaccinations. The point, though is that the delta variant is wreaking havoc with the unvaccinated segment of the population. Hospitals at 100% capacity. It is not even being reported here.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)Not surprising since they have all cut their foreign bureaus to the point of non-existence. Gotta pay the stock holders, you know.
I read about the Chile outbreak and it was blamed on the China vaccine. I guess Im going to have to only use the BBC for foreign news.
Thanks for the clarification.
PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,851 posts)I don't get why so many here (other than those who might actually be immuno-compromised) seem to have zero trust in the vaccines.
Ms. Toad
(34,066 posts)There's a crap-ton of people who don't understand high school arithmetic, and are being fooled by out-of-context numbers that (1) focus exclusively on death and (2) completely misinterpret what the numbers reported out of LA mean **even** if the only concern was death.
A 95% effectiveness means that for every 100 cases in unvaccinated people, there will be 5 breakthrough cases in vaccinated people with the same exposure.
The Delta variant is 60% more contagious.
That means that for every 100 cases of original variant COVID, there will be 160 cases of Delta variant COVID in individuals with the same exposure.
AND - the effectiveness of the mRNA vaccines decreases to 88%.
That means for exposure that would have created 100 cases of original COVID in unvaccinated people, there will be 19.2 breakthrough Delta cases in vaccinated individuals (160 x .12) (For J&J - 40 cases, not even taking into account any decrease in effectiveness since those numbers are not yet available for J&J)
COVID is deadly and unpredictable, and for every deadly case there are a significant number of cases that cause permanent heart or lung damage or long haul COVID.
I trust the vaccines to provide decent, but incomplete protection. With the number of unvaccinated idiots not wearing masks spreading the Delta variant, it is stupid not to add another layer of protection.
PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,851 posts)The risk is still incredibly low. The actual risk of Covid is extremely small, and if you're vaccinated it's vastly smaller.
The unvaccinated idiots really have no effect on those of us who are vaccinated. So get over it.
PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,851 posts)extremely low risk of infection are making me crazy. Get over it. Your risk is incredibly small. Get a hobby.
Ms. Toad
(34,066 posts)The "extremely small" numbers you are relying on were collected over a very brief period of time, while people were wearing masks, when the Delta variant did not exist - yet they are being touted as if they apply for all time, in all circumstances. That is just plain math illiteracy.
Go back through the calculations, based on comparative risks for vaccinated v. unvaccinated (not a snapshot in time - which tells you next to nothing).
The exact same level of exposure that caused 100 garden-variety cases of COVID in unvaccinated people will now cause 19.2 cases of Delta in vaccinated people.
While I welcome an 80.8 % reduction in risk, I don't consider a 19.2% chance of contracting COVID, relative to the era before the Delta variant and vaccines "safe." Masks cost next to nothing - we should all stlll be using them.
The unvaccinated idiots infect our children ages 0-11 who cannot be vaccinated. They also impact us by creating variants. And the specific variant currently circulating increased our risk from 5% risk of a breakthrough case to a 19.2% risk of a breakthorugh case. So yes, they do impact us.
ETA: https://democraticunderground.com/100215588272
That's because the only source of new coronavirus variants is the body of an infected person.
"Unvaccinated people are potential variant factories," Dr. William Schaffner, a professor in the Division of Infectious Diseases at Vanderbilt University Medical Center, told CNN Friday.
SNIP
The current vaccines protect well against all the variants so far, but that could change at any moment. That's why doctors and public health officials want more people to get vaccinated.
What parents need to know about children and the Delta variant.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/03/health/unvaccinated-variant-factories/index.html
maxsolomon
(33,316 posts)Odds are really good that you won't die - from Covid.
You'll die of something, eventually. That's 100%.
pwb
(11,261 posts)The new variants kick ass? Vaccinated people can get it. Only difference if we get it most don't need hospitalizations . I just do my weekly loop still, with a mask. Just be careful, especially when being still around others.
TheFarseer
(9,322 posts)Last week and felt pretty safe. I tried hard not to touch my face and tried to stay away from people. Did not feel it necessary to wear a mask.
Ms. Toad
(34,066 posts)It is breathing in aerosolized particles - which is less dependent on proximity than it is on the HVAC system, and where it sends those particles.
Feeling safe without a mask has little relationship to actually being safe.
WarGamer
(12,439 posts)Safety is relative.
If you're vaccinated, going to the gym is relatively safe. If you ALSO have underlying health conditions, then maybe work out at home. There ARE break-through infections and some deaths.
IF I were to go to a large gym, I'd probably try to keep socially distant, wear latex gloves and use hand sanitizer back in the car.
Deuxcents
(16,193 posts)Ty to the du poster that had the Tampa Times chart of Florida by zip codes. My zip had 36% reported vaccinations. Nope. Not safe.
Happy Hoosier
(7,295 posts)I wont go to a tightly packed situation where the unvaxxed may be, but otherwise, I am anxious to live my life again.
mcar
(42,307 posts)I was vaccinated in February. I feel comfortable, especially given the ongoing reports from the CDC that the vaccines work, even against the Delta variant.
LAS14
(13,783 posts)... statement to my satisfaction. It was focused on unvaccinated people. 95% of the population in some countries. The public isn't up to dealing with nuance. It's MASK or DON'T MASK. And in most countries it better be MASKED, even if fully vaccinated people don't need to.
Scrivener7
(50,949 posts)of states whose numbers seem to be beginning to jump.
No reason, but I don't think I'll feel comfortable in a gym anytime soon.
DET
(1,307 posts)My son is a personal trainer at a popular local gym. He went back to work in July 2020, plus he works out several hours each day at the gym. We were terrified that hed get Covid, but neither he nor his clients nor the staff ever did.
But this is in Northern Virginia where most people have been very compliant with mask and distancing requirements and most of us are now vaccinated. If I lived in the deep South, Florida, Texas, or parts of the Midwest I dont know that Id feel safe just stepping outside the door.
Crunchy Frog
(26,579 posts)Over 18,000 today, when it had been closer to 10,000 a few days ago.
So I'm still in the wait and see mode. I wear masks indoors and avoid indoor places with lots of people.
I'm being more lax with my vaxxed 12 year olds, though. They've restarted karate and have been swimming at the Y, and the local lake.
They've been socially isolated too long, plus the Pfizer is supposed to be super effective in kids their age.
Ms. Toad
(34,066 posts)This week is up 11% over the prior week.
tavernier
(12,382 posts)I bought a room size treadmill for a great price at Amazon last month and Ive walked the world on YouTube in my A/C ever since, and havent had to worry about mouth breather magats.
milestogo
(16,829 posts)madinmaryland
(64,931 posts)Dawson Leery
(19,348 posts)That's Borowitz level material.
Ms. Toad
(34,066 posts)they are pretty safe.
Restaurants are, of course, the riskiest since you have to remove a layer of protection. I'm minimizing visits to restaurants - with a strong (near exclusive) preference for outdoor seating.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)But if vaccinated you are unlikely to get it and the odds of you going to the hospital are astronomically low.
Especially if you live in a place where vaccination rates are 50%+. And my experience with gyms is most people willing to pay money to stay healthy probably have been vaccinated.
Hekate
(90,658 posts)I think that given my propensity for touching my face, it would be smart to wear a mask in a gym.
We are just taking it step by step. Well take our SIL out to a restaurant for her bday next week. We wear masks to the grocery store. I met an old friend for salad at the Natural Cafe. Our medical appointments still require masking up. My allergist sadly told me how many docs at the clinic got sick, and that one of them died.
I think California is doing okay, all things considered, but dh and I still hardly go anywhere.
Oh, a friend of mine went to song-writing camp in Idaho and said that she and her travel buddy wore masks into town and the locals looked at them as if they were from another planet.
This is not over, is it? But at least those of us who are vaccinated can not only find our keys in a jiffy but have some genuine assurance that we should be reasonably safe in this new world. Now if only all our loved ones would do likewise.
KentuckyWoman
(6,679 posts)However, I am still nervous and have not yet gone.
Liberal In Texas
(13,548 posts)They charge a nominal fee and it's in the same area with recovering cardiac patients. Masks are required and without knowing for sure I would bet most if not all us elderly are vaccinated.