IMHO, Fox News and RW Radio didn't brainwash people

[Kaleva]

They tapped into a market that was already there.

We need to remember the the media's main priority is to make a profit. The yellow journalism of the late 1800's and newspapers being highly partisan is an example of this.

Another thing to remember is that we humans tend to readily accept that which validates our already formed world view and to question or reject that which challenges it.

It's often mentioned that watching Fox or listening to RW Radio brainwashed people but it's not mentioned as to why these people choose to listen or watch in the first place and then continued to do so. I believe it's because they liked and agreed with what they saw and heard. I find it hard to believe that there were progressives or even moderates who became right wingers because of what they freely chose to watch or listen to.

I also like to think that every DUer here could be exposed to Fox News and RW Radio daily for a long period of time and that wouldn't turn us into into TFG supporters because our developed world view would reject it. We'd tune it out. Non-progressives would tune it in.

Shutting down Fox News or forcing that company to change it's business model wouldn't do anything. The viewers would simply move to OAN and Newsmax or some other media outlet that validates their world view.

[Dorian Gray]

1. Yes and no

My parents watch fox, but none of the nighttime punditry. Nor the morning shows. They'll turn it on in the afternoon for newsy stuff. They get some of the messaging there, but not the anti-vaxx stuff. But my mom does believe that Biden is a socialist. Which is purely messaging from Fox. (She voted for Biden over Trump, who she couldn't stand.) I feel like in her case, she was ripe for the plucking, but her belief that he's a socialist is brain-washing from Fox. (Funny thing is she still thinks he is better than Trump.)

[Kaleva]

2. I think you make an important distinction.

There's a difference between Fox News Live and Hannity, Carlson, Judge Jeanine , The Five and Fox and Friends.

[Dorian Gray]

4. There is

for sure, though some of their messaging seeps through.

[Septua]

24. Biden, the socialist...

I submit the vast majority who think Biden and the Dems in general, are "socialists" don't know what true socialism is...

Whenever Democrat politicians want to provide a "social service", it's branded as a socialistic government which is obviously false. All the anti-socialists forget all the social services they enjoy every day and take for granted. Just ask them if they returned the relief pandemic checks they received or the SS checks they receive. Or ask the ones on Medicare if they're still buying health insurance.

Ask them who they expect to keep the roads and bridges maintained or enforce the laws that protect them from the thugs. Ask them who they want assistance from when hurricanes destroy their house...the list of "socialistic" benefits is long.

I've said it before but will reiterate...what the non-Democrat population really wants is to go back in time to 1950 when the population was 90% white and Blacks rode in the back of the bus...sad but true.

[Dorian Gray]

29. Absolutely

Believing Biden is a socialist is stupid. (My mom has a stupid belief that was encouraged by her viewing of fox).

[Tumbulu]

3. No, it does have a cumulative effect

Fairness Doctrine must be reinstated.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

25. The FD would have zero effect on Faux, OAN, NewsMax, etc,

the FCC is expressly forbidden to regulate content on cable, satellite or the internet, only over the air broadcasting is within the purview of the FCC to regulate content.
Hell, you don't even need a license to operate on those 3 venues.

The difference between over the air broadcast and the other 3 venues is that one is free, while the other 3 you have to pay for.

[Arkansas Granny]

5. It seems to me that with the demise of the Fairness Doctrine that many conservatives

went over the edge into RWNJ territory. Maybe if they were exposed to a liberal viewpoint from time to time, they might soften their stance a bit.

However, all they hear from Fox News is based on fear, hatred and disinformation. It has to have a lot of influence on them even if it doesn't qualify as brainwashing.

[Kaleva]

6. Would we soften our stance a bit if exposed to a conservative viewpoint from time to time?

I've lurked at FR for years to see what they are talking about but that exposure hasn't shifted any of my views to the right.

[Arkansas Granny]

9. I get your point, but just the fact that you lurk over there shows that you encounter

viewpoints that differ from your own. It at least gives you some insight into their school of thought.

[griffi94]

10. That's a good point.

I think there might be some conservative issues that would be supportable if they weren't so extreme.
Things like national defense, if that didn't mean plundering other countries. The same can be said for fiscal
conservatism. If being fiscally conservative didn't mean the obscenely wealthy pay nothing and screw everybody else.

[-misanthroptimist]

11. No, we wouldn't...but:

1. Very, very few of us actually are "far-left" as opposed to the average contemporary Republican
2. Most of us know what Republicans actually say as opposed to what some news outlet claims, as opposed to RWers who are only given lies and mischaracterizations of out positions.

So, imo, the question you ask is false equivalency.

[Kaleva]

12. These people make up their own lies

QAnon is an example. Ashley Babbit was a patriot exercising her rights when she was murdered in cold blood is another.

[gab13by13]

13. Define "Far left"

and those that are "far left" are they harmful to our country? Are Bernie Sanders and AOC "Far left?"

[-misanthroptimist]

17. "Far left" was put in quotes for precisely the reason you ask the question

The fact is that I can't think of anybody who is "far left" in the Democratic Party. I'm sure they are out there...somewhere. But they have little to no influence, as opposed to those in the Republican party who openly cozy up to the Proud Boys.

But that's reality.

In FoxProp's make believe world, AOC (and even Biden) are "far left." Bernie seems to be a special case with them for some weird reason.

[JHB]

30. You, and presumably most of us here, have beliefs with solid roots

Very few people on this board "picked up their liberalism by osmosis". I can't recall who I'm quoting there, but it was an apt description for people who "aren't political" and believe what they do because it's what's normal for their area. There aren't going to be any "a conservative is a liberal who got mugged" coming from DU.

But for people whose political view-roots aren't as deep? The sheer saturation of RW outlets across the country lets the wingnuttery and tribalism steep into their bones. And let's not forget religious stations that also put out RW talking points.

And since there's no dedicated center-left media machine to act as a counter, the RW stuff is the only stuff there is unless one goes looking for it.

[Kaleva]

32. I would say very few here picked up their liberalism because of DU or other liberal sources

While Fox dominates cable news, the big three (ABC, CBS, NBC) combined attract far more viewers then Fox.

"In total day, Fox News averaged roughly 1.2 million viewers, and 204,000 in the A25-54 demo."

https://www.adweek.com/tvnewser/q2-21-ratings-fox-news-is-americas-most-watched-cable-network-but-sheds-viewers-from-2020/481904/

"But it’s not altogether surprising that there would be a fall off at this point. In the 25-54 demo last week, World News Tonight averaged 1.7 milion, compared to 2.09 million a year earlier; NBC Nightly News posted 1.35 million vs. 1.93 million, and CBS Evening News had 939,000 versus 1.19 million."


https://deadline.com/2021/03/network-evening-news-ratings-shutdowns-1234716004/

Saying there is a saturation of RW outlets isn't true when one adds in the likes of CNN, WP, NYT, MSNBC, PBS and others.

With so many choices, I believe people go to Fox, OAN, NewsMax and listen to RW radio because of choice as those outlets validate their already formed their world view.

[JHB]

33. CNN, WP, NYT, MSNBC, PBS do not advocate one view and tear down others

They do not incite hatred of alternate outlets and exhort their audience to shun those outlets.
They do not play upon prejudices, biases, and even pet peeves in order to pull the audience toward their viewpoint.

In short, CNN, WP, NYT, MSNBC, PBS do not evangelize.

Conservative and even further right outlets do.


In addition, the mainstream outlets have not responded to the accusations of "liberal bias" by standing firm. They've responded by giving more and more leeway for conservative speakers to outright lie with no consequences. They even turned themselves into platforms for conservative messaging. Think of CrossFire. Its formula was a milquetoast centrist "for the Left" versus fire-breathing Pat Buchanan "for the Right." It was never going to be a balance discussion.

[Apollo Zeus]

7. "the media's main priority is to make a profit"

True but it is a notch more complicated. Cable news has a very old audience and not all that large. The biggest appeal for corporations of owning MSM entities is political power -- the ability to shape the national dialog and help move legislation.

They break even at best on their news operations but make billions off of discrimination in the labor market, tax cuts, extended wars of occupation, regime changes that open markets, calling elections before the votes are counted, etc.

[Kaleva]

8. Hannity, Carslon and others are paid millions because they make money for their companies.

[Apollo Zeus]

16. They have terrible demos compared sports or for example "The Voice"

"In prime time, the median age ticks even lower: CNN’s median was 59 (flat vs. 2016); MSNBC’s median was 65 (up two years from 63 in 2016); and Fox News’ was 66 (flat vs. 2016)."

Advertisers don't generally target viewers over 54 years-old.

In total day, ... 25-54 demo, the numbers were 195,000 for Fox News, down 42%, 133,000 for CNN, falling 59% and 99,000 for MSNBC, dropping by 48%.

195,000 viewers (!) There are kids on YouTube doing bigger numbers than that and YouTube pays about $3 per thousand so if Fox News was on YouTube every ten minutes would be worth about $600.

People in the beltway watch a lot of cable news. DT watched FOX News constantly. Cable news is not a great way to sell ads but it has major influence on politics. That is where it pays off.

https://deadline.com/2021/06/cable-news-viewership-plunges-in-june-1234783434/

[bucolic_frolic]

14. Stupidity is highly rewarded in this society

I think that has been an increasing trend. It wasn't always the case.

[DFW]

15. Fox doesn't change strong opinions

Their target is the mass with weak opinions and still impressionable. They present the ripest targets for indoctrination. These are the ones Fox hopes to turn into diehard Republicans by everpresent slow indoctrination.

This is done in bars, laundromats, anywhere a proprietor will accept an incentive to run Fox during Business hours. The impressionable lap it up because Fox gives them impressions, filling what was previously a void. CNN is not a Democratic Party tool (although truth often is, so it might seem that way to Republicans). Fox IS a propaganda arm of the Republican Party, and as such, it IS their goal to indoctrinate.

Every bar or laundromat where Fox is on is a Republican Party recruitment outlet. We have no such equivalent. Roger Ailes laid it out when Fox „News“ was formed. When asked about objectivity, he simply answered, „We have an agenda.“ In the 25 years they have been broadcasting, that hasn‘t changed one bit.

[gab13by13]

18. I love the premise of the thread.

Kids, teenagers, don't watch Fox or listen to RW radio, they are indoctrinated by their parents before they watch Fox or listen to RW radio. Kids aren't born bigots and racists, they are taught by their parents, no Fairness Doctrine can cure that.

Good schooling can cure some of the bigotry and racism, this is why the fascists are dictating what is taught in schools. Years back the Kochs even had a say in who was hired at Universities because of their donations. The RW fascists are working to teach their hatred in schools, they don't want schools teaching critical thinking.

Much of today's world has been compared with Orwell's "1984" I believe the fascists want America to be more like Huxley's "A Brave New World." People who don't conform will be exiled or worse, those who are left will be living under the illusion that they live in freedom.

[Mysterian]

19. The fascist propaganda ministry does not care about profits

Fox News etc. is funded by billionaires to create political upheaval and support for a fascist, oligarchic state in which they would be rulers.

[hunter]

20. Television coverage 9/11/2001 was a fire hose of bullshit and breathless hyperbole.

That's when I quit television news and opinion.

The most primitive parts of the human mind can't comprehend that television isn't real. This mind orients itself to the viewpoint of the camera, be it a falling building or some "authoritative" newscaster sitting in a studio like a teacher in a classroom. That viewpoint is rarely selected honestly.

The only purpose television news has is to sell commercials that are difficult to avoid. Even PBS has to appeal to commercial sponsors. It can't do that if it's boring and nobody watches it.

Television news must appeal to our most basic emotions to sell itself and it usually does that by bypassing the more analytical parts of our minds.

I read all my news and opinion. My wife and I subscribe to multiple newspapers, most of them via the internet. On my personal computers I block advertising that pops up, moves or makes noise. I don't block all advertising.

Our television streams movies and television series without any commercials. We collect DVDs.

Traditional television no longer exists in my personal universe and I like it that way.

[kacekwl]

21. During the 2008 Obama campaign I was out of work for a year. While

doing stuff around the house I started to watch cable news shows on all the different channels. I wasn't a complete political newby and Obama had me excited. I didn't know that Fox was a republican shill network or MSNBC leaned left . After watching for a while and knowing what I knew I quickly realized Fox lied and misled in their reports constantly. I can imagine someone completely new to politics watching Fox exclusively could be badly misinformed if not brainwashed. Add to this their PM opinion programs and you could get screwed up badly especially if you are a racist to begins with.

[Liberal In Texas]

22. Both things can be true.

There were people predisposed but there are also people who, because of the pervasive blanket of RW radio and cable TV, have gone from reasonable or even liberal thinking to brainwashed nuts.
See: The Brainwashing of My Dad
https://www.amazon.com/Brainwashing-My-Dad-Matthew-Modine/dp/B01C6AFDM6

A filmmaker explores the radical change of her once Democratic father to an angry right-wing fanatic after his immersion in talk radio and Fox News. She discovers this to be a powerful phenomenon that has divided families across the nation.

[Kaleva]

23. But what attracted that father to Fox and RW radio in the first place?

And why did he stick with it even though what was presented violated his core Dem principles?

It'd be like an avowed atheist deciding to watch and listen to religious programing and became of that exposure, he becomes a evangelist.

[Liberal In Texas]

31. It's the power of propaganda. People may not even have another radio station to listen to

that isn't RW. Pretty common around here. So a guy going to work or a worker that uses his vehicle in his job may be tuning around and hear some fairly reasonable sounding guy. The key to good propaganda is using truthful statements and lacing it with reasonable sounding lies. And then keep repeating it over and over.

It isn't that someone is predisposed to watch or listen to RWers. All of us have had a the curious enough to listen or watch on occasion just to see what they're up to. We might be set enough in critical thinking and knowing where to find the truth that it doesn't effect us. But an average Joe or Jane who is just trying to keep the bills paid and may only vote in the general elections might be more easily convinced.

And it's the constant haranguing from all sides. (Just get on one of their mailing lists and see what kind of inundation you get.) Radio, TV, social media, and mass mailings. And the propaganda is insidious a lot of it being generated in Russian troll farms. The Russians have had more than a century to perfect the techniques of propaganda.

And then repeat the lie again and again. Remember how TFG used to talk? Repeating his points over and over. We thought he was just a poor communicator. But it is a blatant propaganda method.

[Crunchy Frog]

35. It happened because of a change in work location necessitating long drives IIRC.

He unwittingly turned on the radio to listen during long commutes, and got sucked in. You really might want to watch it before pontificating on it.

I think your theories are interesting, but the truth is that propaganda works. It worked for the Nazis, it worked for the Soviets, and it's worked out extremely well for our own homegrown fascists.

The Nazis and Soviets didn't use it to make money from commercials, and that's not what our fascists are using it for either. It's meant to shape the minds and perceptions of a large segment of the population, in order to get them to go along with agendas of powerful people that they don't understand and wouldn't otherwise support.

If propaganda didn't work, totalitarian regimes wouldn't use it, and billionaires wouldn't subsidize it.

JMHO.

[tblue37]

26. Propaganda works.

[joetheman]

27. I agree. Obama's first election UNCOVERED our dark underbelly of racism. His second win

UNLEASHED the fear, hate, vitriol and racism that is accultured in the US daily since its beginning.

The stark reality that a black man could lead this country and be largely successful in the face of well-financed, hateful opposition and be loved and respected around the world while not only talking the talk but living the life of a loving, faithful husband and father. UNHINGED the Tea Party-MAGA crowed. Trump will never, ever be able to accept that a black man was and still is more acceptable than he is to most of the world. Obama was not perfect but he wasn't evil either.

[Kaleva]

28. And look at the hate directed at Hillary.

[lindysalsagal]

34. Religion.

The Elephant In the National Room.