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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI feel I have to say something here:
I have been an established practitioner in Center City Philadelphia for going on 43 years. During that time Ive had the fortune and misfortune to be acquainted with literally tens of thousands of people. The vast number of these individuals are and were solid citizens as we used to call them in the old days. However, I have been privy to, and witnessed an extremely frightening and disturbed group of individuals who participated in behaviors which sink beneath the term reprehensible.
I will not detail them here, but suffice it to say that the average person cannot begin to conceive of the nature of these peoples actions, the reprehensibility of their immorality, the victimization of minors, women, men, and some of these are people who are depending upon them for their income and possibly their survival and I mean the latter quite literally. Now I am not referring simply to seduction of office mates, offputting commentary or behaviors, bad jokes told in the workplace, touchy-feely individuals, or other typical offenses often detailed in the media and often ascribed to poor judgment or stupid behavior. I am referring to behaviors participated in by both genders, which when described are so awful that visions of them in my brain have haunted me for decades in some cases. I wish I could detail these, But quite frankly doing so would probably violate the DU rules and sicken many of the readers.
So when I hear the congressman has been traveling with a minor, paying for sex, gifting people for favors, forming partnerships with other individuals to continue in this illegal, immoral, narcissistic, and inappropriate behavior, I am not surprised, certainly not shocked, but my question is what extreme perversities are being covered up in so many venues?
Most of whom I was associated professionally have retired or passed away, and I will let you in on a little secret. When I first opened my practice I was a single fellow dating one woman for a great length of time who was not in the city but in the suburbs. I was approached on numerous occasions by practitioners and patients in my building and elsewhere who wanted to know what my proclivities were, and those of my girlfriend at the time, testing me to see if I would be interested in participating in any of their groups. Now I found out later, after I had declined, that some of these groups were like a discount Eyes Wide Shut-type series of situations. The actions and what even I would call perversities, and Im a pretty open guy, were so extreme in some cases from what I heard that people would have to be hospitalized or take long vacations in order to recover physically and mentally. Now you may wonder how I know this, and so I will confess to you that two of my closest associates had psychiatric breaks and poured out their souls to me independently, interestingly corroborating each others stories. Suffice it to say that I would never repeat these or write a book about them because I would be marked for vengeance by this whole undercover group, just as Tom Cruises character was in the movie.
I posted this today because I feel as though we are looking through rose colored glasses and dont necessarily understand the depths to with these people can plumb. I will leave you with this: when I was an adolescent, I returned home from school one day and my father happen to be visiting us, since my parents were separated, and I expressed shock at something which it happened at school. My father said to me you should never be shocked, remember, there are people who screw chickens.
What I hadnt realized at the time was that that would be the least of it.
Response to PCIntern (Original post)
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marble falls
(56,369 posts)He's been using his campaign funds for a lawyer - so you know the Feds have warned him he is liable to be arrested, and he's been sending funds to other campaigns. All that, just last week.
Response to marble falls (Reply #10)
Chin music This message was self-deleted by its author.
marble falls
(56,369 posts)... their right to due process protects our rights to due process. The system most usually works.
Response to marble falls (Reply #12)
Chin music This message was self-deleted by its author.
marble falls
(56,369 posts)to be like them.
Bernardo de La Paz
(48,790 posts)It was often said fifty years ago and on that a conservative is a liberal who got mugged and a liberal is a conservative who got arrested.
Hekate
(90,202 posts)Chickens?!?! by the way, was the punchline of a joke about farm boys told to me by a Librarian friend whose family came from Oklahoma during the Dust Bowl days.
leftieNanner
(14,998 posts)Many powerful people have these kinds of secrets - and he had the documentation.
When there are no consequences for evil behavior, then that behavior will continue.
Excellent (if disturbing) post.
Thank you, PCIntern.
spanone
(135,637 posts)erronis
(14,955 posts)My family is probably pretty puritanical compared to many. But I also know that this "puritanism" also evokes prurience. As a young man I thought it probably undesirable to want to look at nude bodies/etc. but I had a powerful draw at the same time. This has abated over the many years but hasn't disappeared.
This dichotomy and separation of normal behavior and society-dictated mores is what causes abominations like Gaetz and many other politicians and powerful people to prey on the less powerful.
Maybe this push-pull, yin-yang is normal. Maybe we are always supposed to live tottering on an edge. I just know that it's been a life-long conflict that I don't really enjoy.
Thank you for opening up this discussion, as you have many more in the past.
SammyWinstonJack
(44,129 posts)RVN VET71
(2,686 posts)for being shocked at the thought of what Tom Lehrer once referred to facetiously as "animal husbandry. The interview explained hed never heard of such a thing and the -- yeah, it was Bush -- supporter responded (and I paraphrase slightly because my memory is a little foggy):Golly, man, you didnt know about it? Every farm boy will tell you that his first girl-friend was a mule. He said this to a reporter. On the radio. In public. And he was not joking around.
Sorry to have to enlighten you (enlighten?) to this sordid part of the American libido. But it does offer possible answers to questions about how folks like Louie Gohmert, Chip Roy, and Ted Cruz came to be.
Hekate
(90,202 posts)Deep rural South? cant recall his name or state.
keithbvadu2
(36,369 posts)A pundit named Savage or similar?
TheRickles
(2,000 posts)Tom Lehrer sang about a guy who majored in animal husbandry at agricultural school, but he got kicked out when "they caught him at it." The student in question was Samuel Gall, who switched to medicine and gained fame as the inventor of the gall bladder. He was able to retire early because he went on to specialize in diseases of the rich.
momta
(4,076 posts)Just wondering...?
momta
(4,076 posts)TheRickles
(2,000 posts)The comments about Dr. Gall are from the intro to one such song, and actually have nothing to do with the song itself ("In Old Mexico" . But they're quite funny, IMO.
A warning: his stuff can be habit forming, and YouTube has dozens of live performances online.
RVN VET71
(2,686 posts)Trueblue Texan
(2,372 posts)Yes! That definitely explains a lot!!! Thx for the laugh! Truth can be so funny!
alphafemale
(18,497 posts)A certain segment of rural white very conservative males do think it is normal.
But think premarital sex or even masturbation would be a sin.
I have no idea how to wrap my head around it.
I was a crew leader of a night stock team in rural GA and as a female I thought this guy was bragging about this chicken thing while everyone was on break just to shock me.
Well his name was convenient so I branded him "_ucker the Clucker _ucker" immediately.
The rest of the crew was male, and my status soared with that.
They also all thought he was gross, but that animal rape is an acceptable practice among some people.
Very poorly educated, isolated from normal society, very religious, white males.
At least in the United States.
empedocles
(15,751 posts)Married her.
He casually, mentioned 'Freddie the Horse _ucker' one time. [Farm town was in northeast Ohio]. Said everyone there knew about it. Life.
KentuckyWoman
(6,666 posts)The OP is so correct - there is a small subset of humans that are so far out there most of us can't even dream up anything that bizarre.
jaxexpat
(6,703 posts)Tommymac
(7,263 posts)and perversity is when one uses the whole darn chicken.
bucolic_frolic
(42,679 posts)but am surprised it being so widespread. The more repression, the more perversion. Married men with mistresses. No one shocked at that. But this sounds much deeper, perhaps, and I have no idea, involving drugs to make victims willing or numb. Normal people really don't understand the dark side of humanity. It's been a blessing of TFG era that personality is so much in focus, talked about, explored, and outside the controlled psy profession. I've read and realize there are clusters of personality that overlap and fit together to a great extent - narcissism, psychopath, sociopath, borderline, anti-social and to some extent histrionic. And there are gradations everywhere, it's not like you just tick off this or that and decide somebody is this or that way. They could be a little bit, or somewhat, meaning these inhuman traits are just about anywhere you look to some slight or not insignificant degree.
No I'm not a shrink, but I was headed that way once upon a time. And I've brushed up against one or two of these decrepits here or there. There is willful evil in the world. In varying degrees.
Thanks for posting. You must have a strong center of gravity!
SharonAnn
(13,767 posts)CrispyQ
(36,231 posts)The very people who shouldn't occupy positions of power & authority over others, are the ones attracted to those occupations. Management, law enforcement, the judiciary, political positions. I've seen people turn into complete assholes when they were promoted to low level management positions, much less positions of real influence and power.
SharonAnn
(13,767 posts)NullTuples
(6,017 posts)They protect their own, and with a number of notable exceptions, usually do not take the job for anyone but themselves.
Pepsidog
(6,252 posts)For those who do not know, Moorestown, NJ is one of the nicest towns in South Jersey, a lot of money. Back in your day Doc there wasnt the internet so I guess people had to explore in person if they were interested in another couple to swing. Swaggert to Falwell they are all perverted sociopaths in the evangelical community.
PCIntern
(25,347 posts)Are NOT starring in any movies on Youpn or Pnhub, believe me.
JohnnyLib2
(11,206 posts)Yup, the 'reprehensible' are all around and they've been turned loose to some extent. I appreciate bucolic frolic's comments (above) about the current focus on strange personalities being something of a blessing. We need more understanding and more effective ways of dealing with the dark and evil traits.
I_UndergroundPanther
(12,452 posts)I wish the dark triads would go extinct.
totodeinhere
(13,037 posts)But adults have a long history of romantic involvements with minors one or two years younger than the age of majority. I agree it's a crime, but not quite as bad as you make it out to be. But yes, I would love to see him indicted and I hope he loses reelection.
PCIntern
(25,347 posts)Much much much worse.
Why does this sound like the same rumors we hear about the Hollywood elite, Ellen DeGeneres and others?
PCIntern
(25,347 posts)Im talking about working stiffs (pun not intended).
jaxexpat
(6,703 posts)But certain things were NOT ALLOWED. Sign over the entrance plainly said, "we do not serve necros".
TheRickles
(2,000 posts)Epstein's network, Boys Town (The Franklin Cover-Up), the Vatican, and more.
Snackshack
(2,540 posts)Everyone has it within themselves to be a saint or a sinner. What you touch on is nothing new.
The worst most despicable, evil, hurtful, nefarious, violent life forms on this planet was a human. If you really want to try to get your mind around just how depraved and vicious one human can be to another look no further then WW2. Further back then that thousands would gather to watch a person tortured to death as punishment for a crime and even further back thousands would gather in a colosseum to watch people killed by Lions or Bears or other humans.
The flip side of that coin is the most caring, kindest, thoughtful, empathetic, loving life form on this planet was a human. History is littered with the graves of both. If you can imagine it (with in the realm of our reality its probably be done)
Deuxcents
(15,785 posts)Enjoyed and mostly agree
Kali
(54,990 posts)that whole societies can turn so evil so easily is the true horror.
Jon King
(1,910 posts)I have a huge family, went to a 1500 person high school, attended 3 colleges knowing people from all over the country, tons of cousins, tons of friends. I owned a large fitness club for over 20 years with 3000 members at any one time and probably 30000 different members over the time I owned it, spent 1000000 hours talking to so many people from all walks of life, talked about all the reasons for their weight issues, counseled thousands, heard all kinds of things about addictions, divorces, etc.
And I never once in all these years ever even came close to discussing anything that is alluded to in this post. Never seen anything weird, never heard about anything weird, nothing.
Oh and this all took place in the Philadelphia area too, the city, Delco, Chesco, etc...those were our old stomping grounds.
So there you have it....one person's experienced and heard about all sorts of bizarre stuff and another experienced and heard about absolutely nothing....interesting.
But then again when I would discuss all the stuff that happened at school, the fights, the romances, the cheating on tests, etc....my father never felt the need to tell his child that people 'screw chickens'.
PCIntern
(25,347 posts)A lovely life youve led. Speaking of Athletic clubs, there was a lot going on at the old Philadelphia Athletic Club in Center City .but I defer to your experience.
that you havent seen it has no bearing on whether or not it happens.
do you think they advertise?
halfulglas
(1,654 posts)Now we are as a group realizing teenagers are not adults and cannot consent to sex with adults, that even if they are treated lavishly with clothes and trips it is trafficking. They are not "getting what they deserve" if they are passed around for sex or eventually arrested. Their brains and emotions are not mature. Yes, I know that even on the outer edges of suburbia where there are horse stables, owners keep watch on their horses out after dark because of the danger of abuse and that's bad, but kids sometimes think if somebody seems really really "nice" to them and they think they can handle themselves and it's their choice and they aren't a victim, but at the same time they are flattered and feel they "owe" the person spending all this money on them.
It's so discouraging hearing police and others referring to a 14 or 15 year old on the street (or even on fancy trips) as prostitutes when legally they aren't responsible for their actions when they are doing what they feel they have to do to survive. It's ironic sometimes when on the news in past years a reporter would refer to an arrest of a "14 year-old prostitute" when she was too young to have her named.
The stories of the kids being recruited and groomed for this should make us oldsters remember that at the age of these kids, we could talk a good game, but we had a chance to grow up a bit more to make lasting decisions about our lives.
Ohio Joe
(21,656 posts)smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)most of my life.
The past few years has really shocked and disillusioned me, and opened up my eyes. I think I prefer things the way they were before.
Scrivener7
(50,774 posts)PCIntern
(25,347 posts)I am not aware of the personnel crossovers.
Scrivener7
(50,774 posts)NNadir
(33,368 posts)Gaetz is a piece of shit for sure, but happily, I don't need to contemplate him too deeply to get that.
joetheman
(1,450 posts)PCIntern
(25,347 posts)They didnt have all those arcane laws in Leviticus for no reason.
Response to PCIntern (Original post)
Mosby This message was self-deleted by its author.
peggysue2
(10,811 posts)We were approached at a work party about joining a couples' swapping event. Unlike you're father, PC, my husband and I were shocked. In fact, once we got home we wondered if we had misinterpreted the conversation because the individuals who suggested it, the setting and the suggestion itself were so out-of-whack.
This was also in Philly, btw. At the Union League, a big formal affair in a beautiful, elegant setting. We were thrilled to be there, and then . . .
I'd put that night away long ago. But your Op-Ed brought the memory back.
PCIntern
(25,347 posts)The people I know/knew were very classy as well.
cbabe
(3,441 posts)Mary Mazzio's 2017 documentary about sex trafficked children.
Backpage.com/Village Voice hid behind the first amendment when advertising children for sale. Made hundreds of millions pimping girls
Judges gave facetious, juvenile decisions allowing the trafficking unabated.
Knowing what we know now about Epstein , Gaetz, etal, it all makes sense.
Buying kids for sex is apparently OK for many.
Trigger warning.*
Evolve Dammit
(16,632 posts)A couple of them are still unbelievable decades later. Human deviant "sexuality" and the lengths people will go to obtain and then cover for, is very sick. And it has happened throughout history. In fact, it could be considered a common denominator going back to Rome at least. Hard to acknowledge, let alone witness.
locks
(2,012 posts)of a Catholic priest who caused years of suffering of children inside the Vatican is taking place. In my younger days I probably would not have believed that "religious" people could be part of a powerful system of cruelty, hate, and power, whether it be Christian, Buddhist, Islamist, Jewish, evangelical. So many, probably millions, of religious leaders who have never paid for the sins which were the exact opposite of what the founders of a faith lived and taught. Sadly, most of us are not surprised any more that most of our leaders around the world are corrupt and live only to have power.