General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWould they really have killed Mike Pence?
Yeah, they were yelling, "Hang Mike Pence!", but were they really that serious?
A witness that was a participant in the Trump rally stated that if they would have captured him, he would have been pummeled to death. (She was quoted on the Ali Velshi show this morning on MSNBC, He was interviewing Michael Bender, the author of one of the new books that just came out)
The American people had better open their eyes. Their vote is very important. They should think twice, maybe three times, before they pull the lever or mark the box.
There has never been a more important time in our history in my lifetime. American citizens need to step forward or they are going to lose their country to a violent dictatorship.
The sad part is that even Mike Pence does not realize how close he came to death.
GusBob
(7,286 posts)They were acting under their leaders orders
Would Trump had pardoned them if they killed Pence
alphafemale
(18,497 posts)Even after they had seen how painful the death was.
If cult members will kill their own children without a second thought, imagine what they would do to yours.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Cult members killed congressman Leo Ryan and a few journalists.
MarineCombatEngineer
(12,264 posts)the is no doubt in my mind that if they could have gotten their hands on him, or any other Dem. lawmaker, they would have executed them and would have celebrated it.
abqtommy
(14,118 posts)Last edited Sun Jul 18, 2021, 01:16 PM - Edit history (1)
of "tourist" reTHUG Fascist Insurrectionist Seditious Cultists. * to Dick Martin of Laugh-In.
KS Toronado
(17,157 posts)way before they "hung" him. And they would have strung him up for public viewing to send the message....
THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS TO ANYONE WHO IS DISLOYAL TO THE KING!
Funny they don't see that the king is naked.
Renew Deal
(81,847 posts)Im pretty sure people werent willing to go World War Z against the secret service that day. No one would have gotten that close to him (unless his security was in on it).
joshcryer
(62,269 posts)One shot stopped everything.
dclarston13
(406 posts)They would have expended hundreds of rounds in the attackers, I have no doubt.
Tiger8
(432 posts)It would have saved the world so much grief - and hundreds of thousands of lives - so far.
Captain Zero
(6,787 posts)In a car and Pence refused fearing it was part of a plan not necessarily for his safety but to get him out of the building so he couldn't return to certify the vote.
Think about that one.
no_hypocrisy
(46,038 posts)Trump would have immediately selected a new VP who would invalidate the Electoral Vote Counting. And have declared Trump as winning the Election.
Brother Buzz
(36,389 posts)But you just know the orange anus gave it a LOT of consideration.
Grins
(7,199 posts)New VP requires approval by BOTH houses of Congress.
Still, an interesting question! If Pence had been assassinated, who would the fat orange Caligula have picked?
rampartc
(5,388 posts)but since he needed graham's vote in the senate, probably america's mayor, the hero of 911 and trump's personal lawyer.
pazzyanne
(6,544 posts)dmr
(28,344 posts)fescuerescue
(4,448 posts)Last time it happened was the 2000 election.
https://www.deseret.com/2000/7/22/19519524/cheney-changes-voter-registration-boosts-bush-running-mate-chances
https://apnews.com/article/bf748a5fb1319ac6bc403182fd3cf591
Retrograde
(10,130 posts)the Constitution just says that electors must cast one of their ballots for someone not from the same state as the elector. While for all practical purposes this means that if the candidates for president and vice president are both from the same state one of them doesn't get that state's electors, it would be moot in this case as Donnie didn't get New York's votes anyway.
If Vanky were to be appointed to fill out Pence's term - all two weeks of it - that would require a majority vote of both Houses. If she were intended to replace Pence on the ballot - well, that's an area that AFAIK doesn't have a precedent.
pazzyanne
(6,544 posts)Rules don't apply to him, don't you know.
Ocelot II
(115,613 posts)although he'd certainly have tried.
Generic Brad
(14,272 posts)He would have done it without a second thought. Very few people acknowledge his mentally ill state that has been the nucleus of the insurgency.
kentuck
(111,056 posts)Just as he had gotten away with every other position? Who would have challenged him ??
wnylib
(21,346 posts)left in Congress? To get Pence, the insurrectionists would have to have been a liitle earlier in breaking in. In that case, they could also have grabbed a few members of Congress.
If they had grabbed Pence alone or with members of Congress, that could have been Trump's opportunity to declare a national emergency and try to suspend the regular business of government. Remember, the militias had stashed weapons and bombs in DC. There were members of the police and National Guard in sympathy with the insurrectionists.
It wouldn't have lasted long without military backing, but could have been worse than it was. The military brass considered resigning rather than obey a coup order from Trump. Underlings might have sided with Trump.
All speculation, of course.
kentuck
(111,056 posts)Trump would have just waited until he got a sympathetic one, like General Charles Flynn, the brother of Michael Flynn. He would not have had to wait very long, in my opinion. Somebody had previously sent a letter to all the former Secretarys of Defense and they had sent out a public letter warning of the danger. I think it may have been Liz Cheney?
wnylib
(21,346 posts)to the generals.
I think the resignations of the generals could have made things worse by leaving a vacuum for Trump to fill, or for lower level officers to step into in support of Trump. Better if the generals stayed in their positions and refused to obey an illegal command to support a coup.
kentuck
(111,056 posts)He was fired and replaced by Chris Miller, a flunkie.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/03/politics/trump-election-defense-secretaries-public-letter/index.html
bucolic_frolic
(43,064 posts)Might have stopped the process in its tracks, which was the whole idea.
Ocelot II
(115,613 posts)If it doesn't happen it doesn't mean the other candidate wins. There's no provision in the Constitution for re-doing the election. If the insurgents had stopped the process on 1/6 it would have happened later. The VP's job is ceremonial, a fact nobody was ever able to pound into TFG's thick head.
JohnSJ
(92,061 posts)Comfortably_Numb
(3,796 posts)LakeArenal
(28,806 posts)COL Mustard
(5,871 posts)Please use the correct term. An execution is a legal, state-sanctioned killing, but a murder is an illegal killing.
Adding in advance: I used to be pro- capital punishment, but I no longer support that. Im just probably being pedantic, and if so, I apologize.
Comfortably_Numb
(3,796 posts)FWIW, I think the magats would justify it as punishment for treason. Hence, execution Ill embrace murder. Effing thugs.
CTyankee
(63,893 posts)and could have figured out where his office was and where he serves as the President of the Senate. So my guess is "they would have."
underpants
(182,632 posts)Just like each step as they approached the Capital. There was going over the hurricane fencing, up the steps, pushing back the barriers, busting windows, etc.
All it takes is one to make a move and others will follow. When I heard Trump say something about walking down there (some had already started) he was just goading the crowd and then the crowd would do what it needs to do. He was impeached for doing just that.
joshcryer
(62,269 posts)...absolutely, 100%, mob behavior is extremely unpredictable, but all it would've taken was one or two of them punching Pence and it would've gotten beyond out of control.
But the Secret Service would've shot anyone who even came within feet of him.
kentuck
(111,056 posts)How would they have acted in front of an angry mob? It's unknown.
tanyev
(42,523 posts)but I have no doubt there were some in the crowd that would have done harm to him if theyd managed to get their hands on him.
obamanut2012
(26,047 posts)Many of them raped and tortured first.
All of them.
Cracklin Charlie
(12,904 posts)I think he does realize how close it was.
He could have left that building with his security detail, but good on him for sticking around to certify Bidens election. He did his duty.
FalloutShelter
(11,834 posts)His SS detail told him they had a car waiting and he refused to get into it... not because he was bent on doing his patriotic duty, but because he feared abduction and worse.
dianaredwing
(406 posts)He didn't trust his security detail. He was in on the bloodless coup plan and when blood seemed imminent, he stuck with the sanest group around. He knew all those people and probably was well aware of who was in on the coup and who was simply there doing their job.
Ocelot II
(115,613 posts)before they got him to their makeshift gallows.
bucolic_frolic
(43,064 posts)The scaffolds were theater. The anger was real. People so roused up by TFG, pandemic isolation, loss of vicarious football angst that they would have attacked him. Yes, they were out for blood.
I'm alarmed, but we're more aware now. Unfortunately their planning won't have lapses in execution next time.
Yorkie Mom
(16,420 posts)I doubt he'll admit it publicly though.
peggysue2
(10,825 posts)Was his refusal to leave the Capitol bc he did not trust the Secret Service. If that's the case, then Pence knew how truly dangerous the situation was and how close he and his family were to real violence at the hands of the mob.
He knew. They all knew. Yet still, they lie.
Girard442
(6,066 posts)Not even them. But -- When someone who CAN kill you says they WANT to kill you, you'd better take them seriously.
sarcasmo
(23,968 posts)redstatebluegirl
(12,265 posts)dlk
(11,514 posts)Of course they would.
Response to kentuck (Original post)
Chin music This message was self-deleted by its author.
Evolve Dammit
(16,702 posts)It's apathy, pain avoidance, laziness and "I'm too busy, it will all be fine." Recipe for disaster. If a congress person (or Pence) had been killed, it may have had more impact. The next one won't be so nice. And there will be a next one.
malaise
(268,724 posts)Still can't process that one
Evolve Dammit
(16,702 posts)malaise
(268,724 posts)Evolve Dammit
(16,702 posts)May not have been much they could have done? Dunno. Good question though
Evolve Dammit
(16,702 posts)malaise
(268,724 posts)I need an answer
Swede
(33,208 posts)To quote Black Sabbath.
Jilly_in_VA
(9,945 posts)And Nancy too.
Ferrets are Cool
(21,104 posts)I can guarantee one thing. If those insurgents had not been white, they would never have gained access. I'm still so angry about Jan 6th that I can barely think of it because of my blood pressure.
Vinca
(50,237 posts)if they'd gotten their hands on them. Mitt Romney had a very close call and was saved by the police. The thugs were out for blood and I doubt they'd be asking for party affiliation cards before clobbering them. If they had gotten to Pence the hanging would have made it hard for even the GOP to whitewash.
kentuck
(111,056 posts)...is tragically mistaken and uninformed. That especially goes for Mitch McConnell and the Republican leaders.
obamanut2012
(26,047 posts)Baked Potato
(7,733 posts)bottomofthehill
(8,318 posts)The Secret Service would probably not have been as judicious in their use of force if the crowd got close as they to know that that crowd would have tried to kill him. I agree with up the thread though, he would never have made it to the gallows, they would have beaten him to death long before they could hang him. They would not have gotten to him until the Service ran out of ammo and as we saw when one shot was fired and one life was taken that the crowd suddenly showed restraint.
Does this look like the peaceful face of a protester who would do no harm
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
bottomofthehill
(8,318 posts)Bongo Prophet
(2,642 posts)The photo composite of images at your link are worth clicking on. The smiling photo is one the media would most likely use.
What a sweet guy! So harmless, this tourist!
The photo in the midst of the mob? His game face.
No doubt he was ready for any opportunity to shed (someone else's) blood.
bottomofthehill
(8,318 posts)That is exactly what I was trying to show. For some reason when posting from my phone I always screw things up but when posting from my laptop I dont. Both Apple products some day when I get younger I will get a hold of it.
Bongo Prophet
(2,642 posts)Embedded and encrypted images don't link well, so I went to the sources that would. On a computer, but still had to do a few previews to get them looking decent
.
The smiling guy/killer photo dichotomy hit me harder on seeing the composite in your lint that made me think of the editorial choices, and how much that shapes public opinion. Similar to the photos of white/black people in flooded New Orleans. "Found needed supplies" or "stealing"? Words matter. Images matter.
Corgigal
(9,291 posts)maybe by FBI profiler, John Douglas, that a riot (or a large group of people), are only as smart as its dumbest person. When I see who the FBI is arresting, I will say yes they would have.
tblue37
(65,227 posts)AOC, Ilhan Omar, Schumer, Romney, Schiff. . . .
fescuerescue
(4,448 posts)He knows exactly how close he came.
Now what he does publicly with that knowledge is another matter entirely.
Mad_Machine76
(24,396 posts)that said that Pence was actually afraid of his Secret Service detail afterwards?
11 Bravo
(23,926 posts)Texin
(2,590 posts)then dragged his body up to the gallows and hanged him. Frenzied mobs will do just about anything -- and we've seen people who are a part of it pull out automatic weapons and shoot randomly amongst the group, and others who've used their cars to plow into and run over people. I think it's highly likely if they got ahold of him, he'd have been killed one way or the other. Same for Pelosi and any other legislator they might have seized that day.
Mad_Machine76
(24,396 posts)Trump had been whipping up his base for days, essentially telling them that Pence was going to betray them by counting the votes as cast instead of refusing to count Biden's, which is something that he, of course, couldn't do anyway. Also, didn't one of Trump's lawyers (Wood) even explicitly call for him to be hanged (did *he* get booted off social media?!)
I shudder to think if any of the insurrectionists had gotten ahold of any of the congress members, especially people like AOC or other members of the Squad, whom were frequent right-wing/Trump targets. From the looks of it, even the Republican members whom were in Trump's back pocket look scared.
Ultimately, I think that they could have all been in danger had the insurrectionists actually been able to get ahold of them.
Iggo
(47,536 posts)lindysalsagal
(20,592 posts)It was all imaginary, and had they actually isolated Pence, they would have snapped out if it. They went after the guards who were blocking their way, but were strangers. But really, no one could be sure, either way.