Far far far left

[sheshe2]

And far far far right are not the answer. They are both extremists. Democrats are liberal, not a bad thing. This country is far better for that. Liberals know full well you have to work incrementally in what has become a 4 party system, right, left and the extremes. Purists get nothing done, real Democrats do.

The right is gone, the left is fighting every damn day, to make it right. ACA was a start , it was meant to be a step toward single payer, dems have fought for it every day. And don't 'cha know Hillary was promoting this decades ago. It was never accepted by the extreme branches because HILLARY and a Black man.

John Conyers tried for years:

What Rep. John Conyers’s sweeping single-payer health care bill would actually do

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/8/28/16114436/john-conyers-single-payer-insurance

They loathed her, never sure why. Perhaps because she was a strong woman Extreme ideology seems to say that if I can't have it all, THEN WE WANT TO BURN IT ALL DOWN! Then what we get is nothing.

I am appalled, though I shouldn't be, for those that accept NT calling our now Democratic President a half bowl of shit, applauded when President Obama was called a POSUCS (piece of shit used car salesman). NT and the POSUS auther voted third party.

This is not who we are.

[zipplewrath]

1. There is no "far left"

There is a body of people that have a loose connection with reality and yet for some reason generally vote democratic. There is very little in their political outlook that would correlate at all with liberal beliefs. Heck, they are more generally the voting block that voted for Obama and then voted for Trump.

And "...ACA was a start , it was meant to be a step toward single payer,..." just isn't true. Obama said specifically that single payer wouldn't work in this country and that the ACA was meant to be INSTEAD of single payer. Many others had hopes that the public option would be ultimately become single payer, but that went away very early in the negotiations. But none of these positions could be labeled "far far left".

[sheshe2]

3. hmmm

Link?

Obama said specifically that single payer wouldn't work in this country and that the ACA was meant to be INSTEAD of single payer.

Did he say at that time it wouldn't work or never...after fight all opposition on both sides.

[betsuni]

11. But the House passed the ACA with a public option, it only went away in the Senate version.

[lapucelle]

2. Rep. Conyers introduced HR 676 in every session of Congress between 2003 - 2019

No one in the senator ever wrote a companion bill or Senate version to expedite its passage.

H.R. 676 Expanded and Improved Medicare for All Act
https://bit.ly/3rn0e6F

[sheshe2]

5. Yes he did.

Far left picked up the mantra decades later and called it their own 'new deal thing'.

[lapucelle]

6. Surprising that no senator found HR 676 worthy enough to merit writing a Senate version.

[sheshe2]

18. Yes it is.

The ones that talk loudest are the ones that never have time to write a bill.

[betsuni]

12. +1

[mcar]

4. The far left and the right hated "that woman"

with a passion. They called her every name in the book. They accused her of every crime in the book. They continued that hatred to Barack and Michelle Obama and Kamala Harris. And so many others.

The far left, apparently, agrees with the right when it comes to these solid, liberal, Democratic leaders.

After all this, she, after 4 years of TFG and coming within a razor's edge of losing our democracy, our country - the far left still pushes their fake purity tests and rank hypocrisy.

I am so done with it.

[sheshe2]

7. They are pushing their new party as well.

Now it is the peoples party.

I read the twitter thread. It didn't go well. She is alienating her own base, black women.

[mcar]

10. She sure is.

She is a phony.

[Peacetrain]

8. sheshe2 I have said this for years and could not agree more

the extremes of both parties has spent the last 40 years not 20 but 40 attacking the centers of both their parties.. RINO and DINO first thing comes to mind.. they spent more of their time attacking the middle of their respective parties than they did debating the differences between the parties...

I have posted this so many times.. the extremes are like the canaries in the coal mines.. they can warn you of danger ahead.. but the inflexibility of the extremes makes them miserable leaders..

[sheshe2]

9. Thank you. Peacetrain.

[lapucelle]

13. ...

Proponents of horseshoe theory argue that the extreme left and the extreme right are closer to each other than either is to the political center.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory

[Sympthsical]

16. Heaven forfend people push for universal health care

Might upset the moderates. Can't have that.

Universal heath care = extreme. Affordable college = extreme. Tackling income inequality in a serious way = extreme. Major action on climate change = extreme.

Duly noted.

Don't bother obfuscating in a reply. The AOCs and others attacked here on the regular are constantly called Far Left. And those are the policies they're promoting.

Is there such a thing as Far Centrist? Maybe there should be. I could throw that around with the same ease. People who don't care how much progress is made. They got theirs, damnit, and you will not rock their boat!

Sail well, my friend. Sail real well.

[betsuni]

21. The Democratic Party has been pushing for universal health care, education,

economic equality, higher wages, action on climate change, taxing the wealthy and corporations, regulations. That's the point. These are usual Democratic policies. Who thinks these are new or extreme policies?

[sheshe2]

24. If you care about heath care you should have read the OP.

Don't bother obfuscating in a reply. The AOCs and others attacked here on the regular are constantly called Far Left. And those are the policies they're promoting.

Dems have done a lot about it, BS and AOC, not so much.

Actually they call themselves Progressives.

The policies they promote have been promoted by Democrats for ages, it is nothing new, none of it. So where are their bills, their legislative accomplishments?

Is there such a thing as Far Centrist? Maybe there should be. I could throw that around with the same ease.

Their are lot's of 'far centrists' they are called liberals more times than not.

People who don't care how much progress is made. They got theirs, damnit, and you will not rock their boat!

I am really not sure of what to make of this comment. Did someone make progress and others didn't give a damn because they got theirs...what does that even mean? Is their a source you can link that supports your claim? Then rockin' a boat?????

[betsuni]

25. There was someone going around claiming that all those usual Democratic ideas were new and extreme.

Repeating over and over that Democrats thought all "his" ideas were too extreme (this from 2019):

"And many of the ideas that I brought forth, $15 an hour minimum wage, 'Hey ... you're crazy. That's too extreme.'"

"Dealing with student debt, 'Oh ... that can't be done.'"

"Dealing with climate change as a national security issue ... I said it's climate change and people kind of laughed."

"Health care as a human right. 'Oh, ... that's not -- that's un-American. Nobody in America believes that!'"

All total fantasy. The fictional "Democratic establishment" that's the same as Republicans. Nutty! A shame anybody believed it.

[sheshe2]

26. That hurt my head.

If I do this anymore I am going to knock myself out.

[betsuni]

27. I know what you mean.

[Sympthsical]

28. No one said Democrats are the same as Republicans

But to constantly attack the "far" Left the way that is done on this board. Ridiculous.

We don't have a far Left in this country. We certainly have a far Right - and they are powerful.

Frankly, this OP would've been hidden on an actual liberal/progressive board.

The amount that liberal ideas are shit upon is insane to me. Every thread where AOC so much as opens her mouth gets brigaded, piled on, spammed, and shut down beyond any discussion.

But, yes, moderates are super sensible and super liberal.

If it makes people feel better to pen those fictions, I suppose. Personally, I think it's just Blue Teamism and very little else.

[betsuni]

31. Actually, there are those who think some Republicans are better.

On increased support for Trump: "This is a reflection of the Democratic Party. I think if you talk to many of those working class people who voted for Trump, they'll say, 'Look, of course we know he's a lair. We know he's full of shit. But at least he does this, he does that.' Something the Democrats don't do. The Democratic Party is going to have to do an enormous amount of work, really transform itself, and talk about ways to bring working class people on board, and what that means is you've got to represent honestly their interests."

Bernie Sanders (December, 2020)

And yes, both sides is a thing. Why, just yesterday I was assured that the Democratic Party had shifted Right since the '70s and have the same economic policies as Republicans.

[Sympthsical]

14. What's the far Left to you?

And how much power do you think they have in this country vs. the far Right?

[sheshe2]

20. NT is so far left she is in another party.

Hers is called the Peoples Party, supported by a grand group called Justice Democrats.They hate Democrats.

Far right is no better. They both want to remake the parties in their own image.

Sadly, Sympthsical both have to much power to destroy this country and all we stand for. They want to rip it apart. This in the midst of a Pandemic that is clearly once again spinning out of control.

[Tom Rinaldo]

15. Sorry. there is no direct comparison

And I don't say that to defend Nina Turner who is certainly open to criticism. I just am tired of false equivalencies

The far far far right makes up at least 10% of the Republican Party and that includes outright white supremacists, up front fascists, and militant militias and violent anti abortion forces. There is no equivalent on the left for that. You would have to look to the so called "New Black Panther Party" types, spin off remnants of groups that devolved from the Weather Underground, lone wolves like the Unabomber, Ted Kaczynski, and such. They make up way less than 1% of people who would ever consider engaging in the electoral process.

If you want to compare the far right (not far far far right) with the far left (not far far far left) then you may be comparing someone like Tom Cotton with Nina Turner. The far right controls about 25% of American votes. The far left controls well less than 10%. The far left in the U.S. does not support insurrection, voter suppression, or the overturning of the results of fair elections. The far right however does. The Right in America might be represented by someone like House Minority leader Kevin McCarthy, the Left by someone like Senator Bernie Sanders.

There is a substantial left in America, go further left than that though and it drops off dramatically. There is a large right in America, and there is also a large far right, and a substantial far far far right.

[jalan48]

17. +1

[crickets]

19. Well said. nt

[UnderThisLaw]

22. A good answer

although Kaczynski is hardly far left is never self identified as a leftist.

[LenaBaby61]

23. The far right folks are GQP'ers now ....

And faithfully aligned with neo-fascism.

[Ron Green]

29. There is no "far left" in this country.

A far left would nationalize the oil companies, along with a bunch of other institutions that kill people and planet, and support existing political parties.

[sheshe2]

30. Of course there is.

Those that are running under one parties label while forming their own, The Peoples Party comes to mind. You should research them and see where the money is coming from.

[Ron Green]

32. If that's your idea of "left," the whole left-right continuum comes apart.

As it should. What we need in this world is the Beloved Community, and what we have is Mammon.

What we need is millions of small economies, and what we have is transnational capital, defended by governments.

What we need is economic de-growth, and what we have is unquestioning devotion to GDP.

What we need is a politics of several parties, each driven by ideas; what we have is two opposing teams, both driven by money.

Nina Turner made some nasty talk about Joe Biden, a decent man. But this OP is a junior-high-school putdown of a grassroots campaign van, with almost everyone in the thread dog piling on.

I wish DU were much less of an echo chamber.

[betsuni]

33. "two opposing teams, both driven by money."

How is the Democratic Party driven by money? Why didn't any Democrats vote for tax cuts during the Trump administration or the repeal of the ACA if that was the case? Why did the Obama administration regulate Wall Street and raise taxes?

[Ron Green]

34. Tim Geithner and Larry Summers.

That explains a lot.

[betsuni]

37. But you said "two opposing teams, both driven by money."

How are a few people the Democratic Party? This is what I don't get.

[hunter]

35. I'm a radical environmentalist and leftist.

Yet my politics are practical and solidly Democratic.

I've never voted for a Republican, or any sort of "green," "independent," or other "third party" for partisan office.

I'm an enthusiastic supporter of Joe Biden and Kamala Harris, even when they make decisions that rub me the wrong way.

Politics is like marriage. Couples who last the longest constructively deal with the inevitable disagreements.

The first President I enthusiastically supported and voted for was Jimmy Carter.

Jimmy Carter has proved himself to be a most excellent and admirable human being.

Unlike "anything for a blow job" Ronald Reagan who is probably in hell working as Lucifer's pool boy.

Myself, I'm not always an excellent human being.

When I'm Emperor of Earth I do terrible things.

Many bad men lose their balls.

[betsuni]

36. Interesting that some identifying as far left aren't really.

A supposed ideological divide that doesn't exist.

Example from 2016:

"But although Sanders voters tended to describe themselves as more liberal than did Clinton supporters, the two groups differed little on economic polices. This was true when VOTER Survey respondents had been interviewed years earlier, in December 2011. People who became Sanders supporters were no more likely than people who became Clinton supporters to favor government-provided universal health care or tax increases on the wealthy -- although they were somewhat more likely to favor government regulation of business. Combining these three questions into an economic policy index showed Sanders and Clinton supporters to be only 0.02 points apart on a 0-1 scale. Sanders and Clinton supporters also had virtually identical attitudes regarding trade policy. Focusing on these earlier data is valuable because it guards against the very real possibility that voters adopted the views of the candidate they came to support for other reasons.

"Other analyses showed the same thing. The political scientist Daniel Hopkins found at best small differences on policy issues between eventual Clinton and Sanders supporters when they had been interviewed in earlier years. Hopkins argued that 'the factors behind the Sanders's support did not suggest that it is grounded in an enduring liberalism.' The political scientists Christopher Achen and Larry Bartels, who were the first to describe the findings from the January 2016 survey, wrote that 'Mr. Sanders's support is concentrated not among liberal ideologues.' Achen and Bartels also located the origins of Sanders's support in social and political identities. ... Sanders and Clinton supporters may have been divided by whether they called themselves liberal, but they were not divided by their actual liberalism or economic policies."

Sides, Tesler, Vavreck "Identity Crisis, The 2016 presidential campaign and the battle for the meaning of America"