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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsVaccinated America Has Had Enough
https://politicalwire.com/2021/07/23/vaccinated-america-has-had-enough/Vaccinated America Has Had Enough
July 23, 2021 at 10:48 am EDT By Taegan Goddard
Yes, they have been deceived and manipulated by garbage TV, toxic Facebook content, and craven or crazy politicians. But these are the same people who keep talking about personal responsibility. In the end, the unvaccinated person himself or herself has decided to inflict a preventable and unjustifiable harm upon family, friends, neighbors, community, country, and planet.
Will Blue America ever decide its had enough of being put medically at risk by people and places whose bills it pays? Check yourself: Have you?
CrackityJones75
(2,403 posts)And I am over being chastised for feeling this way as well.
wryter2000
(46,023 posts)skylucy
(3,737 posts)rest of us. The carrot isn't working for these assholes.Time to add the stick.
rickyhall
(4,889 posts)But noooooo, the stupid minority just don't get it or care. Send them all to Florida & build a wall there.
that!
DBoon
(22,340 posts)Because the toxic right wing media plays to their anger, sense of entitlement and lack of concern for others.
Right wing media has focused per-existing personality disorders and moral defects onto specific issues, in this case vaccination.
They are not victims of propaganda - they actively seek it out.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)Screw 'em.
underpants
(182,608 posts)to venting but caught himself. Hes passed that he did everything he could and he and his 7 year old daughter both caught it. Hes just now coming out of quarantine.
ms liberty
(8,558 posts)dalton99a
(81,397 posts)Fuck them
brewens
(13,538 posts)and get the vaccine like they were told to. My pointing that out on FB may not have been helpful. Kinda started a mini-shitsorm among my friends. I couldn't help it. I'll try not to do it again. I know it only makes them behave more childishly.
Nululu
(840 posts)hvn_nbr_2
(6,485 posts)They're willfully, recklessly, and blatantly endangering themselves and everyone they come near.
wnylib
(21,340 posts)wears masks. Some refuse to respect social distancing in public. The vaccination rate here is 45%. When they get delta, I will feel no sympathy. I am too busy protecting myself to give a damn about them any more.
Tadpole Raisin
(972 posts)If you could guarantee that the only person a drunk driver would hurt would be themselves, then go for it. But you cant and neither can virus deniers or vaccine resistant people.
I love how some people say they are willing to take the risk. Ok but if you are wrong you have risked everyone around you.
How about this - if you get sick and recover but it is determined that your exposure to another person caused them to get sick (and die) then you will be convicted of murder and have the death penalty apply.
Any takers? Thats what it means to accept the risk or (my favorite) I take full responsibilities for my actions.
Wait, what do you mean youre sending me to jail? I said Id take full responsibility didnt I?
sinkingfeeling
(51,438 posts)say you, the unvaccinated, stay home. Vaccinated get to go places , enter and dine out, but you don't.
zipplewrath
(16,646 posts)I keep thinking about a liberal "militia" of us vaccinated going out with syringes in hand to vaccinate the fools. Dress up in urban camo and run around and wander around with syringes claiming we have a "right to carry" and that it is all being done in self defense.
wnylib
(21,340 posts)a good visual cartoon for someone to do, justaposed with anti vaxxers holding signs next to rows of covid tombstones. Caption: How many more?
jmowreader
(50,528 posts)I was thinking more along the lines of getting 1200 of those tranquilizer guns they use in zoos, filling the darts with J&J vaccine, and deploying a battalion of Virus Warriors to just walk into places like right wing churches and gun shows and fire in all directions.
TxGuitar
(4,177 posts)I'll wear one if an establishment requires it, or if I'm in a large gathering of people (which I wouldn't do at this point anyway), but I won't wear one in the grocery store or any place like that that doesn't require it.
wnylib
(21,340 posts)TxGuitar
(4,177 posts)Like I said, I'm happy to comply with mask rules at various establishments, but I'm all in with Macron and, believe it or not, the governor of Alabama--it's up to the unvaccinated to wear a mask, it's their fault this is still happening.
tavernier
(12,369 posts)I have just loved not having a cold that likes to settle into my lungs ever since Ive been wearing the mask to grocery stores. I live in a high tourist area and they bring everything down from up north and Im always catching something. Its just felt so good not to be sick.
wnylib
(21,340 posts)to protect myself because I have health concerns which could cause more than a mild case from a breakthrough infection. So I do it for my own protection against people who are unvaccinated and from people who are vaccinated but are potential asymptomatic carriers. I also want to protect my cat from the possibility of carrying the virus home with me since dogs and cats can get it, too.
Those are my selfish reasons. Less selfish ones are that I don't want to participate in keeping the virus alive by being a host, symptomatic or not, who might pass it on to others, which can happen with breakthrough infections.
I can't control the behavior or decisions of other people, or force them to act responsibly. But I can control my own decisions and actions to protect myself snd others, and hope that it's enough.
phylny
(8,368 posts)amongst idiots and were expecting our first grandchild next week. My husband and I both had Covid tests today to be sure we are safe to go to their house next week and pet sit while theyre in the hospital.
wnylib
(21,340 posts)are vaccinated. When you add in children who are too young for vaccination, the percent of the total vaccinated population drops to 45. Yet nobody wears masks in public places.
Buffalo is an easy drive away and people from here go there daily for shopping and medical appointments. The Buffalo area cases are rising quickly. Although not yet at the rate of last winter, they are now reporting 48 new cases per day. Delta has been confirmed there, and probably responsible for the rising rate.
So I am sure that delta has been carried here by now. Infections in my area have been gradually increasing after a drop following vaccination availability. The drop, I believe, was due to the vaccines and their effectiveness against the alpha variant. Delta is beginning to change the picture.
So I am masking everywhere I go.
MustLoveBeagles
(11,583 posts)Sorry you live amongst idiots.
phylny
(8,368 posts)Covid tests at CVS Friday and got our results Saturday - both negative. We are ready for her arrival on Wednesday 💗
MustLoveBeagles
(11,583 posts)Peppertoo
(435 posts)you should not expect other vaccinated people (who are lower risk) to follow suit.
wnylib
(21,340 posts)I do consider them a potential risk to me, so I avoid being too close to them. I have no way of knowing if an unmasked person is vaccinated. Considering the low vaccination rate in my community and the nearly complete absence of masks everywhere here, I know that there are many unvaccinated, maskless people that I encounter. So, It is safest for me to assume that unmasked people around here are potential virus carriers.
If I were younger, and did not have health issues, I would not be concerned.
pazzyanne
(6,543 posts)There is no guarantee of what kind of protection I got from the vaccine, and I am not the only one. I am fully masked and adhere to 6 or more feet of social distancing even when visiting family. I carefully control the number trips out of my home. This plan stretches into the unforeseen future for me and others like me.
uponit7771
(90,302 posts)... of not taking precautions is on them, I agree with Macron also.
IronLionZion
(45,380 posts)Vaccinated people can live life. Unvaccinated people can stay home or sit outside of indoor venues.
Texaswitchy
(2,962 posts)Just think if we would have had President Hillary Clinton.
Totally different out come.
rdking647
(5,113 posts)quarantine and mandatory vaccinations unless you have a VALID medical excuse
the supreme court has already said in the past that both are constitutional
amuse bouche
(3,657 posts)That's what they are
IronLionZion
(45,380 posts)cherish44
(2,566 posts)The person tested positive the day after I was in contact. Anyway of the group I was with on this exposure incident.... everyone who was not vaccinated and around this person got COVID. Everyone who was vaccinated did not. Yay science. (True story too)
phylny
(8,368 posts)AngryOldDem
(14,061 posts)
chances are the illness would not be as severe.
Ill err on the side of getting vaccinated, thanks.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Politicub
(12,165 posts)AngryOldDem
(14,061 posts)NBC just now: Woman in ICU, in a oxygen tent. So, will you reconsider getting vaccinated? No. I just dont want to jump into something without being 100% sure.
Facepalm!
So shed rather deal with the sure things of an expensive hospital stay, being confined to a tent, and possible long-term lung damage that could require a transplant.
There is something seriously wrong with these people, and it aint just COVID.
They should not be allowed to hold society hostage. Get a shot, or get the fuck out. Thats where Im at.
area51
(11,896 posts)LiberatedUSA
(1,666 posts)Even if she survives, she could get it again if she remains unvaccinated. How many times can she survive the hospital trip?
dsc
(52,152 posts)The pundit and politicos who have stoked this deserve a special place in hell for their behavior. But the merely idiotic who were taken in are a different story. But I do think it is way beyond time for there to be a vaccine requirement.
Peppertoo
(435 posts)twodogsbarking
(9,675 posts)Had the vax but still not comfortable with things the way they are.
MustLoveBeagles
(11,583 posts)ancianita
(35,933 posts)Pffft... a lot of good that does.
This harm comes from an existing structural problem that I've had enough of.
It was the FDA's decision to not go through the OFFICIAL AUTHORIZATION process, but to release the vaccine on an EMERGENCY AUTHORIZATION basis.
Which meant that any emergency authorization is not FULLY AUTHORIZED nor has FULL AUTHORITY to require public health participation in vaccination. And so people have a personal choice to make about dealing responsibly with whoever they're around.
I've had enough of the actual structural problem of
-- pharma's testing timelines,
-- drug manufacturers' supply chain shortage excuses, and
-- sketchy distribution systems excuses, when the USPS does an f'n better job! and
I've had enough of the GOVERNMENT'S
-- NOT USING THE WARTIME PRODUCTION ACT ENOUGH, AND BETTER, and
-- not literally trying harder to literally get our literal surplus vaccines to our needy allies.
Politicians and fearful drama queens wouldn't even be pulling this anti-science bullshit if the structural problems were solved. So let's do THAT.
Now that we've learned, let's act better.
BumRushDaShow
(128,474 posts)The "official authorization" process for vaccines normally takes several years (definitely not 6 months), which gives time for firms to set up and carry out various trials and then compile and submit their efficacy and safety data to the various Vaccine Committees for review (and later, discussions, including answers to questions from Committee members). The best practices look to having at least a year or more of data in order to also uncover and track any long-term issues, post-vaccination. The minimum efficacy goal is at least 50% effectiveness.
But in situations like this when you have a severe global pandemic, they will go ahead and authorize vaccines (or other drugs) for "Emergency Use" in an abbreviated process, because of a health emergency and no other product out there shown to be effective. And in this case, the firms had already started trialing their vaccines, and with about 6 months of data, were able to apply for the authorization, with the expectation that their trials would continue for the rest of a trial period (a year or more), when they could submit their final data to get full authorization.
It's been anticipated that at least Pfizer and Moderna will present their final data and seek the full authorization some time this fall (and I *think* they were considering whether to also include any data for use of boosters and/or updated versions of their entities too).
Regarding the Defense Production Act, it was invoked - https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/03/13/976531488/defense-production-act-speeds-up-vaccine-production
But then you might recall this issue - https://www.baltimoresun.com/coronavirus/bs-hs-emergent-vaccine-halted-20210419-jebhmgem4jcidmo3pxptk7c46y-story.html
There was an initial House Oversight Committee hearing in May and I believe they anticipate meeting again because they didn't get all the documents requested the first go around. Some quick highlights of that -
Using that Act for manufacture of a biologic is not like using it to construct certain devices such as ventilators (where the Act was invoked and subsequently, an extreme excess of them were made and now sit fallow because they are not really the right kind - https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-ventilators-insigh/the-u-s-has-spent-billions-stockpiling-ventilators-but-many-wont-save-critically-ill-covid-19-patients-idUSKBN28C1N6)
ancianita
(35,933 posts)Fine. I'm wrong on the time, thinking it would be delayed for months, not for years. It's been months since I read about the authorization process.
The FDA decision was 17-4, the gold standard of data that would finally be obtained, weighed against the hospitalization and death numbers. As I read Jennifer Doudna's biography this past January, I was struck by her saying that speed and efficiency can now be improved on RNA vaccine development and were among her next work goals in having RNA vaccines obtainable worldwide. Beyond the speed of the authorization process, the whole idea that the public not be required to take a vaccine with 90%+ effectiveness in a highly contagious pandemic has been the core issue of the right wing's spread of distrust about government, extended to science.
I know the Defense Production Act was invoked. I get your point about the difference between mass production of objects and biologics. The revealed problems of mixups, contract violations, distribution systems definitely seemed worse for biologics, and as I recall, so were supply chains. Supply chains still are the problem.
Now that we have surplus vaccines, I get word from my Australia family that Australia's vaccine shortage could use some of our help. Have we structurally improved enough to get sufficient help to our allies?
I appreciate your effortful explanations. Given how big our nation is, along with the timeline and scale of its solutions for its problems, I don't want to get hyperbolic. In the spirit of the idea of how a vaccinated nation has had enough, if I want improvement, it's as much from a desire for updated information as from impatience with the unvaccinated. Psaki's excellent daily pressers still can't be expected to cover everything. Democrats are generally good communicators, so it's fair to expect to hear more regularly and directly (not just when invited on a news show), from Biden's covid coordination team, get information on what's been accomplished in manufacturing, distribution, stockpiling, and helping our allies, so that the public knows that good governance is larger than a president, that good governance learns and communicates that info in a regular way that shows it's still hitting the ground running.
BumRushDaShow
(128,474 posts)It may sound simple to say - "well just box up our vaccines and ship them to another country".
What this does is ignore the fact that many countries, like ours, have some equivalent version of the FDA, which reviews and designates which vaccines are approved for use in that country.
So for example here in the U.S., we have 3 vaccines that have been given an EUA -
Pfizer-BioNTech Moderna Janssen (J&J)
However Australia has these approved - https://www.health.gov.au/initiatives-and-programs/covid-19-vaccines/getting-vaccinated-for-covid-19/which-covid-19-vaccine-will-i-receive#covid19-vaccines-approved-for-use-in-australia
Pfizer-BioNTech Oxford-AstraZeneca
In fact, most of Europe and Canada has been using AstraZeneca's vaccine as their primary. The U.S. has NOT approved AstraZeneca for use here and those countries have NOT approved Moderna or Janssen for use there. However we have batches of AstraZeneca's (I think they were looking at seeking approval and are running into a "crowded market" now), and there was discussion and expectation to start sending up to 60 million doses overseas and I believe per this, that 20 million were going in the first shipment - https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/biden-announce-us-will-send-20-mln-vaccines-abroad-by-end-june-2021-05-17/
However, a decision was made to not send any additional AstraZeneca due to... you guessed it... the problems at Emergent - https://www.politico.com/news/2021/06/21/biden-astrazeneca-vaccine-donation-scrapped-495342
But we are/will be sending the excess of our others (e.g., the Pfizer) that is approved in many of those other countries.
And note that China also has their vaccine (Sinovac, which is being used in places like Thailand, etc) as well as Russia, and it's possible that they are also sending around to countries in their spheres of influence. In fact, I just found this - https://fortune.com/2021/07/16/china-mrna-vaccine-pfizer-biontech-fosun-doses/ where China has been purposefully avoiding the mRNA vaccines but has softened recently, and is working with BioNTech (who Pfizer works with for their vaccine) to eventually approve it there.
We also might have batches of Novavax (which is also NOT approved here YET but they are looking to get it later this year - again in a now "crowded" market). They have been trialing it here and the UK - https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/us-clinical-trial-results-show-novavax-vaccine-safe-prevents-covid-19 as well as in Mexico - https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/14/health/novavax-covid-19-vaccine-us-phase-3-trial-study/index.html
Of course all of this is not sexy enough for the mainstream media to report on (beyond some blips) because continuing to breathlessly follow TFG and his loons around is more "exciting" and "entertaining" than reporting on anything positive that the Biden Administration is doing.
Bottom line is that other than logistics, the "behind the scenes" discussions and coordination with other world governments have to happen because certain vaccines that might be approved here are NOT approved for use in those other countries, and vice versa. So there are a lot of moving parts that go beyond just shoving crates into a plane and shipping.
ancianita
(35,933 posts)Sure, global coordinations take a lot of time and moving parts, as you summarize and link so well (Add to rising temperatures ahead and consistent refrigeration).
What you describe is part of what the public needs to keep apprised of, and imo, is capable of making sense of. Media's portrayal of Americans by presenting its worst, underestimates the hunger the rest of the public has for well presented systems information -- the popularity of PBS' Frontline series is one example.
No matter what corruption and political drama media is habituated to serving up, my neighbors and even total strangers, when we just talk about the weather here in Florida, say they feel no respite coming from the realities of climate, health and quality of life. They depend on local news, but still feeling sidelined and shortchanged by lack of information. They should, because those two groups won't err on the side of telling the truth about the problems we face; they err on the side of distracting stories. CSPAN, fine as far as it goes, is not enough.
Just put more dependably available information on an Environment Channel, a Climate Channel, a Public Health Channel, channels that cross reference each other, give voice to experts put front and center on climate and public health systems, people with families like the rest of us, who would equip the public with powerful information and reasons to move toward national project goals -- who all to contact, where all to sign up and where all to show up -- make them join causes for their grandchildren's future.
I always appreciate your perspective and presentations of information that media won't touch.
It's time they consulted you.
BumRushDaShow
(128,474 posts)and particularly about the lack of any meaningful discussion of science or climate or health etc. The cable channels like Discovery or The Learning Channel (later called "TLC" ) used to generally run exactly that type of stuff but then they keep getting sold in bundles and whoever buys them often tries to put low cost and what they think is "high profit" long-form "reality show" fluff on them that is often completely opposite of what the purpose of the channel was supposed to be geared to.
I did recently find out that there is a "Science Channel" but that is also part of the Discovery/TLC brand and they apparently cross-promote, but they have had some interesting programming.
Sometimes BBC will actually do that type of programming and PBS has always been a stalwart despite all the efforts to kill it right off by cutting their funding.
NatGeo probably has some of that type of programming - particularly related to climate and impact on humans, animals, and plants (I have subbed to their magazine, through my parents, since the '60s and still get it). The magazine has featured climate and health (including the viruses like COVID-19) and I expect the cable channel does too.
As a CSPAN junkie, the one that really veers off into some good topics is CSPAN3 since they are free for general programming if/when Congress is in session, and are taking up CSPAN and CSPAN2 for the live broadcasts of the floor action. CSPAN3 will often broadcast panel discussions on those various subjects by various foundations and the recordings can sometimes be found on Youtube - either uploaded individually or by CSPAN.
But believe it or not, the past year I have found myself doing a lot more researching and reading and have barely turned the TV on at all. I literally do use the internet as one big "library" and have found all kinds of great discussions of various topics.
It's good to see you still fighting the good fight because I know it can be exhausting.
spanone
(135,792 posts)BlueWavePsych
(2,635 posts)leftstreet
(36,098 posts)So the author of this article is certain only Democrats have been vaccinated?
what a pile of culture war crap
madville
(7,404 posts)Blacks as a group have the lowest vaccination rate in the US, followed by Hispanics.
Look at what has happened on this very board, many assume the unvaccinated are all white Republicans when in reality huge chunks of our Black and Hispanic populations are willfully unvaccinated and have infection and death rates much higher than Whites and Asians.
lark
(23,061 posts)Unvaccinated will have to pay for testing, treatment & vaccine - after a certain date. You have to provide proof of vaccination or a negative test taken within 48 hours or you can't go to a restaurant, movie, event, fly, etc. That is exactly what I would do. Give Americans 30 days, a number to call if they have no transportation or need the vaccine at odd hours due to work, and by that date - no entry anywhere inside.
ancianita
(35,933 posts)forthemiddle
(1,375 posts)I know its easy too blame this all on Trump followers, but we really need to get our own voters to see the light also!
There are still way too many African Americans, and also young people (a huge majority of our base), that either dont trust the vaccine, or in the case of the young people, think that they wont get too sick, or die.
I am afraid that the constant blaming of just the disposable Republicans, is letting the other groups off the hook.
How do we convince our own people to change there minds? That is where our emphasis should be, and piss on the MAGAT that we wont probably convince anyway.
madville
(7,404 posts)The propaganda that the unvaccinated are all Trump loving white republicans is really hurting minority communities.
Blacks as a group have the lowest vaccination rate in the US, followed by Hispanics.
Look at what has happened on this very board, many assume the unvaccinated are all white Republicans and openly hope terrible things happen to the unvaccinated when in reality huge chunks of our Black and Hispanic populations are willfully unvaccinated and have infection and death rates much higher than Whites and Asians.
Older white people are one of the most vaccinated groups and a big majority of them vote Republican, so this whole red vs. blue vaccination war is really detrimental to the minority populations who are suffering the most.
Marcuse
(7,446 posts)Marcuse
(7,446 posts)mgardener
(1,812 posts)Over abortion, guns and the second amendment.
It's time we did the same over masks and the vaccine
Yavin4
(35,421 posts)This will allow all employers, public and private, to mandate the vaccine unless there is a legitimate excuse. That simple move will go a long way towards ending this for good.
KentuckyWoman
(6,679 posts)People taking Covid seriously. They are willing to stay quarantined, double masked everywhere trying to ride it out. Concerned the vaccine may cause harm in their personal situation.
People who refuse to accept any of this is real and think the rest of us have been duped into giving away our freedom.
Fortunately only 2 or 3 of the latter.
There are other types I expect but in my sphere that covers all.
boston bean
(36,218 posts)In my family I have one sibling & their spouse and children like that.
Peppertoo
(435 posts)Surprised by how much I have agreed with him in the last few years.
Response to babylonsister (Original post)
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Jim G.
(14,811 posts)I'm sorry your therapy didn't work out..