Apple unveils plans to scan US iPhones for images of child sex abuse

[left-of-center2012]

Apple will roll out an update later this year that will include technology in iPhones and iPads that allows the tech giant to detect images of child sexual abuse stored in iCloud, the company announced Thursday.

The feature is part of a series of updates Apple unveiled aimed at increasing child safety, but security researchers and advocates are warning the scanning update — along with one that aims to give parents protective tools in children’s messages — could pose data and security risks beyond the intended purpose.

With the new scanning feature, Apple will be able to report detected child sexual abuse material to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children (NCMEC) which acts as a comprehensive reporting center and works in collaboration with law enforcement agencies across the country. The company will also disable users accounts if the abusive content is found, Apple said in the update.

Matthew Green, a security professor at Johns Hopkins University, told the Times “This will break the dam — governments will demand it from everyone.”

Read more: https://thehill.com/policy/technology/566603-apple-unveils-plans-to-scan-us-iphones-for-images-of-child-sex-abuse

[Lettuce Be]

1. Wow, isn't that a huge breach of privacy? Illegality be damned, that can't be true

I cannot see this being implemented. Basically they are saying they can and will look at your private photos and decide, on their own, what is and is not okay. Imagine how many take pics of their kids in the bath? Pretty much everyone at least once -- we all have those pics. Is that child porn?

I'll be interested in hearing more. I have an iPhone but have never allowed my pics to be saved to the cloud. Trust issue. It seems like it'd be great, for instance if someone's attacking you, since pics are auto saved to the cloud, but other than that, I dunno just don't trust it for some reason.

[Champp]

2. Ditto

[PortTack]

3. First paragraph: technology that would allow AI to detect images of child pornography, not look at

images...big difference

[Effete Snob]

9. Fortunately, AI never makes mistakes

[bearsfootball516]

4. Yeah, this seems like a massive invasion of privacy.

Like you said, their heart is in the right place, but I can't imagine this holds up against a court challenge.

[displacedtexan]

24. Evidently, it holds up all the time with Microsoft.

It's like a giant net catching all different fish & random sea creatures. Some are legit child porn criminals; others are people who have no idea that criminals have parked cp files inside photos and other downloads due to login, password, and/or email breaches.
It's good to catch criminals, but imagine trying to defend yourself against child porn charges if you're innocent. Even the accusation can ruin your life.

[Earth-shine]

5. It may be the case that in the user agreement, it states that anything stored in Apple's cloud

is actually owned by and can be accessed by Apple.

If you upload a video to YouTube, who owns it, you or Google? Google!

I don't have an Iphone. We're an Android family. It feels like I own nothing on my phone, and that the apps own me.

[leftstreet]

8. Correct. It becomes a 4th Amend issue when LE is involved

Lawyers would explore the relationship between Apple and law enforcement and the moment state agency occurs - then it's a 4th Amendment issue.

Pretty weird

[Ms. Toad]

10. Precisely.

In 1999 Cynthia Stewart, a mother, respected member of the community, and amateur photographer, was arrested and accused of child pornography, based on snapshots she took of her daughter in the shower. The fact that she had no intention of publishing or distributing the photos—and had no prior record for this kind of activity—did not dissuade the aggressive prosecutor. Powell, who lived in the same community and had a passing acquaintance with Stewart, chronicles in month-by-month detail Stewart’s battles to prove her innocence, and keep custody of her daughter. The story that unfolds is a fascinating cautionary tale of a criminal justice system both intent on finding criminals where none may exist and weighted against the poor and the powerless. Especially terrifying is the evidence Powell reveals that other moms, many single mothers, many in middle or lower incomes, have been similarly charged, and, in some cases, convicted for similarly innocent family photos. Powell is a facile writer, and her closeness to the material adds a subjective element to the story that makes it more immediate and compelling. --Jack Helbig --This text refers to the hardcover edition.

https://www.amazon.com/Framing-Innocence-Photographs-Prosecutors-Response-ebook/dp/B0042RU87W

[Effete Snob]

14. Yep - this sounds like it will be rife with those sorts of things

And woebetide the user who leaves a camera running in a room in order to attempt to catch a suspected abuser.

[Johonny]

23. sounds like a nightmare

[jimfields33]

16. I really believe if this were true, it'd be everywhere on the news

Apple also would be discussing it. I’ll wait until I think this is troubling as a breach of privacy.

[Celerity]

6. Orwellian

[TreasonousBastard]

7. So, no investigation, no warrant-- apple just scans our pix and decides on its own...

what is or isn't kiddie porn?

Kiddie porn is vile and evil, but so are a lot of things and our legal system does not allow anyone to just barge into our private stuff just in case there's something there to find.

This goes beyond breach of privacy-- it is the electronic equivalent of bashing your door down and ransacking your house.

What besides kiddie porn might they find?

[Earth-shine]

11. "bashing your door down and ransacking your house"

It's not YOUR door. It's not YOUR house.

You are more like a renter without a lease living in Apple's house, often referred to as cloud storage.

It may be more ambiguous about whether you own what's on your phone, but if it's in Apple's cloud, it's not yours.

[TreasonousBastard]

17. That's what Apple says. Who has the copyright to the pictures? Who took them? If I rent a...

storage shed, does the storage place own what I put in it? Can they break into it to see if there's anything illegal in there? If I plant a strawberry bush in an urban community garden, is it mine or the park's?

So, Apple, and a bunch of other companies let you sign up if you agree to a 40 page list of what are essentially concessions giving up whatever rights you thought you had. The fact nobody reads them is irrelevant, since you signed it. Think getting out of a timeshare is hard?

I'm not sure if the law has caught up with these tricks yet, but "eventually" this should sort itself out.

Apple also decided the default is to have pix you take be uploaded to the cloud, not you. Apple isn't alone-- my Android phone uploads everything, and Windows just loves to upload. Sometimes, I can't save a doc to disk when I'm not online. And I'm using LibreOffice, not Word.

Often enough, this is a convenience, until it gets in the way. And your ass is grass if you're planning anything dastardly, even if not actually illegal.

[Earth-shine]

18. I'm not sure what you are arguing, here.

>> Can they break into it to see if there's anything illegal in there?

You would have signed a user agreement that says nothing illegal will be stored (e.g., explosives). If they suspect you are storing something that is illegal, I'm sure they can just go in there based on probable cause.

>> Apple also decided the default is to have pix you take be uploaded to the cloud, not you.

You signed the agreement. That's what Apple does. It's a closed environment for apps and media. You don't own anything you upload to their cloud, but you are still responsible for it.

>> Apple isn't alone-- my Android phone uploads everything, and Windows just loves to upload.

Neither my phone nor any of my Windows PCs uploads anything without my permission, which is never given.

If this concerns you, deactivate Google Drive and MS One Drive on your computer. Offload your photos from the phone directly to the PC using a USB connection.

Further, deactivate all telemetry functions on your Windows PCs.

>> And your ass is grass if you're planning anything dastardly, even if not actually illegal.

Again, I don't get your point. You cannot use their products to do illegal things.

[TreasonousBastard]

20. So, you're saying it's OK for Apple to dig into your personal files because somehow...

ownership transferred to them?

[Earth-shine]

21. I'm not the one who gave them permission. You did!

I very much think it's not okay.

I am concerned about privacy, which is why I don't have Apple products. I store nothing in the cloud and do not use "open" software like LibreOffice.

I have Android and Windows and do my best to block them from spying on me.

You seem to just want to complain about privacy while still availing yourself of these "free" and/or "included" services.

The price of "free" is your privacy.

I am done, here.

[Effete Snob]

12. I'm curious how the AI works

And how it would determine the difference between ordinary photographs of a child in a state of undress, as are fairly common, and child abuse images, which are illegal.

This harkens back to the days when the overactive dude at the drugstore would report parents for having child abuse images, on the basis of normal "kids in the tub" stuff.

To rise to the level of child abuse images, there is in most states, particular types of activity and/or a "lewd and lascivious" component, as opposed to family vacation pictures from the nudist camp.

[Silent3]

25. I suppose that someone, somewhere, is legally allowed to have illegal images...

...to use as training for AI software.

Way, way back in the day of the Reagan admin, with Ed Messe going on his war on porn, I remember reading about some of his people having huge collections of illegal material "for research". Makes you wonder how many people got involved just to get to look at it.

[speak easy]

13. Next up - AI to look for images of 'undisclosed locations'

Scanning for child pornography, or whatever, means a new API. Once that is off and running, Bob's your terrorist.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

15. This is going to hurt a lot of people.

[twin_ghost]

22. President Biden Needs to make all cell phone makers do this.

And it should be expanded to all illegal content. For example, the phone maker could find out if a person under 18 has pornography on their phone and wipe it. They could also detect animal abuse photographs and report that to the police.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

26. No.

[twin_ghost]

29. If you have nothing to hide then you won't oppose this.

[canetoad]

31. Dio you have curtains?

What do you have to hide?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

32. That's not how it works.

[moondust]

27. China gonna love it!

If they don't have it already. And other totalitarians. Not necessarily limited to child sex abuse.

iPhones in Hong Kong?

[DavidDvorkin]

28. They'll find it even if they have to put it there first

And sooner or later, they'll be doing that.

[dalton99a]

30. Kick