Don't fall for the "cop dying of fentanyl" video. Dude isn't dying.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

A video from the San Diego Sheriff's Department is making the rounds on social media, and it's similar to other cop allegations of "touching a grain of fentanyl and ALMOST DYING" that crop up periodically. It's copaganda; don't fall for it.

https://www.truthorfiction.com/san-diego-sheriff-fentanyl/

A public safety video released by the San Diego County Sheriff’s Department in California was quickly called into question online — but not by local news organizations, some of which shared it without mentioning that medical groups have described its central premise as misinformation.

The pre-produced video, released on August 5 2021, depicts what the department has called a “fentanyl overdose,” suffered by Deputy David Faiivae a month earlier while on duty. The department claims that Faiivae came into contact with fentanyl — a substance reportedly more potent than heroine or morphine — while on duty and overdosed. Undersheriff Kelly Martinez credits Faiivae’s training officer, Cpl. Scott Crane, with saving his life.

The San Diego Union-Tribune‘s description of the video reads in part:

“Just breathe, buddy, breathe,” Crane tells Faiivae, according to the video. When he asks his trainee if he is OK, Faiivae replies in a weak voice: “I’m sorry.”

“You’re OK. Don’t be sorry … I got you, OK?” Crane says. “I’m not going to let you die. I’m not going to let you die.”

Faiivae’s overdose happened around 4 p.m. in a parking lot in northern San Diego County during his first radio call of the day. The deputy works patrol out of the San Marcos sheriff’s station. It was his final day of shadowing the veteran Crane, officials said.

Sheriff’s officials are not sure if the fentanyl got onto the deputy’s skin or if he inhaled it.

Besides being published in the San Diego Union-Tribune (and re-published in its sister publication, the Los Angeles Times), the department’s video was spread through television news affiliates. But the department’s central claim — that touching or inhaling fentanyl can induce an overdose — has been challenged several times over.

Although the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health — part of the Centers for Disease Control — has said that fentanyl “can be absorbed into the body via inhalation, oral exposure or ingestion, or skin contact,” and ingesting the substance can be fatal, other experts have for years argued that the chances of overdose by absorption or inhalation are so low as to be nearly negligible.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

1. I'm 100% certain someone could OD and die by inhaling pure fentanyl powder

Like if you were in a major dealers house, and a flour sack size bag full of pure fentanyl power fell on the floor, exploded open, and you were right there, and breathed in a bunch of pure fentanyl dust ... sure, that could kill you. Quick.

The WAY CUT DOWN stuff a regular cop is likely to come into contact with 'on the streets', however, is another matter entirely.

The 'touching it' part I doubt, you'd have to be very careless, and again you'd have to be dealing with very pure stuff, getting it ALL OVER you, and not washing it off.

[NewDayOranges]

2. Well, I fell for the copaganda! I thought the stuff was

So toxic that a cop od'd from simply touching it...

[Hugh_Lebowski]

3. If you were at a serious dealer's place who had a lot of very pure fentanyl

and you walked up to a big ass bag of it, shoved both hands into the bag, then just went about your business for an hour or so, not rinsing off what would naturally stick to your hands?

Then yeah.

You'd probably OD, and die if nobody shot you up with an opioid antagonist.

But that's the sort of scenario that would be required.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

5. It took decades to develop a fentanyl patch for pain relief. No one is dying just by touching it.

Last edited Sat Aug 7, 2021, 10:37 PM - Edit history (1)

[Hugh_Lebowski]

6. See post #3

You absolutely could, but it would require specific circumstances.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

8. So specific as to be ridiculous.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

9. The premise presented was that one cannot die by inhaling or touching it ...

I'm simply explaining that this premise is flawed.

One absolutely could.

It requires unusual and unlikely circumstances, but they are not impossible.

If one got a lot of it onto their skin without knowing it, esp. if they were very sweaty, in the middle of a drug raid in a place w/very pure fentanyl on hand, for example.

In it's pure form, it requires VERY LITTLE fentanyl to kill a person, and it can be absorbed thru skin.

I'm not saying the video isn't bullshit, I don't know for sure either way, I tend to think it is.

Reason being, and this is an important point ... the 'fentanyl' sold on the streets is diluted like 1000-1 with other crap vs pure fentanyl.

Much like, say, Nicotine, it's pretty much like having two different conversations when you talk about 'pure' vs 'what one sees in street level product'.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

10. That was not the premise presented.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

13. Okay, well, I'm telling you that an LEO, could, in theory, OD on Fentanyl

by inhaling or getting a not that large an amount on his or her skin ... if it were pure fentanyl, such as might be encountered in a major drug raid.

I agree it's very unlikely for an average cop to encounter such a situation, and that the 'fentanyl'-laced pills and powders they are ever likely to come in contact with are SO diluted from the pure form that they are not particularly dangerous unless actively consumed.

But it's not explained in the text of the OP how/what sort the cop came in contact with, how much, etc.

That's why I pointed out the possibilities. Fair enough?

[happybird]

11. Carfentinel vs. Fentanyl

The first one is the cheap, easy to get one that is killing people.

The names are often used interchangeably, but one is a veterinary drug (opiate-based large animal tranq, not approved for use in humans) that can be shipped in large quantities from overseas.

The other is a legit Rx for severe pain management (expensive patches and lollipops, not easy to obtain unless you know someone dying of cancer... or have access to a Dr. Feelgood, which is not so common these days with the DEA crackdown on pain management clinics and new Rx/patient limits placed on doctors).

[Hugh_Lebowski]

15. I don't think this is true, I think actual regular fentanyl is being synthesized overseas

and south of the border, and my understanding is it is the far more common of the two in the USA.

Though there are signs of carfentinel making its way in as well, I have not read anything saying it's the predominant fentanyl form, and definitely not the ONLY form as you suggest.

It's also like 100X more potent per unit of measure still vs fentanyl, which is already ridiculously concentrated.

It's so strong it's very difficult to handle.

[Disaffected]

12. I doubt the two cases are comparable for purposes of this discussion.

If they are, how so? The main purpose of a patch is to ensure consistent, SLOW release over a day or more which is quite the opposite to what a sufficiently large amount placed on the skin could be expected to do.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

14. Also, the gel that is in those patches is diluted like 100's to 1 (not sure on exact numbers ...

but it's a very significant dilution in terms of drug/gel ratio).

[Disaffected]

17. Which is what one would expect

for a drug as potent as fentanyl.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

24. The gel is to help the skin absorb the drug. Drugs are generally pretty bad about getting into the

skin unless there's a delivery system.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

26. Oh yeah ... I understand physics and chemistry ... but it's indeed also a dilution medium

I'm just saying if one got enough pure fentanyl onto wet and/or oily skin (or an article of clothing that was damp) and it sat there for awhile I'd wager one could overdose. As you've pointed out it's a highly unlikely circumstance ... a cop in a protracted drug raid on a facility with a lot of the stuff around is probably the only scenario I'd guess it ever might.

[WarGamer]

4. It may be Copaganda...

But what isn't Copaganda are the 3 dead teenagers in my city of 130,000 that died of fentanyl OD in the last 3 years...

[WhiskeyGrinder]

7. Okay?

[Sympthsical]

16. My partner says the video is absolutely plausible

He's a higher up in a pharmacy system. Been practicing for many years. He's seen just about everything.

He said, "That can absolutely happen." Then he delineated all the different things about handling fentanyl. Even street drugs, yes, because you don't know the concentrations. That's why the patches have to be handled so carefully. They'll kill your pets.

I know you're super, super anti-cop, but do you really want to go to bat over fentanyl? That thing that kills quite a lot of people? And on opinions that are by no means certain?

A bit strange.

I'ma go with my partner on this one and say there's no obvious reason to believe the video is false. Maybe it is, maybe not. But not any real doubt introduced here.

[Maru Kitteh]

18. Two of my cats were prescribed fentanyl patches following surgery.

And no, I do not have tigers or anything.


Housecats.

[Sympthsical]

19. Human dose vs animal dose

And, of course, created in a lab with precise measurements.

I'm just relating what he told me. He has much experience in these matters.

[Maru Kitteh]

20. 12.5 mcg. Also, I've handled hundreds upon hundreds of Fentanyl patches

never have I keeled over. I have much experience in these matters. I have never encountered any inhalable form of the drug. I can only speak to the patches.

BTW, they don't make special cat Fentanyl patches. They're manufactured for humans.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

23. .

I know you're super, super anti-cop, but do you really want to go to bat over fentanyl? That thing that kills quite a lot of people? And on opinions that are by no means certain?

It certainly does kill people -- people who snort it, eat it or inject it. But it doesn't kill first responders who pick up bags of it or brush against the sweat of people who are ODing. Drug hysteria hampers both good policy and good practice in harm reduction. If that's "going to bat over fentanyl," well, let me know where I am in the lineup.

[ripcord]

27. So you are saying it is staged and he didn't have some kind of reaction?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

28. I'm saying whatever is happening is not an accidental fentanyl OD, and that it is much more likely

he had some kind of syncope event with or without a panic attack. At best, the video was produced in ignorance. At worst, it was either staged or knowingly hyped to scare the public and boost the cachet of the cops.

[elias7]

21. YOU ARE WRONG, It's carfentanil and highly toxic and can be absorbed transdermally

I have seen overdoses here to this type of exposure in the ER. Don’t make us sound like the anti vax crowd.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

22. Funny you should make that comparison.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7492952/

Fentanyl panic goes viral: The spread of misinformation about overdose risk from casual contact with fentanyl in mainstream and social media

(snip)

Effective public health requires precision, but the domain of drug policy has long been a province of muddled communication. Even as COVID-19 has captured headlines, North America continues to experience worsening levels of drug-related overdose. Responses to this crisis have often lacked accuracy and conflate key terms and concepts. The very moniker “opioid epidemic” obscures the crisis’ structural complexity behind a vector-based framing (Dasgupta, Beletsky, & Ciccarone, 2018).

One element of that complexity is the spread of health misinformation as both an outcome—and a partial driver—of the crisis. With deaths involving illicitly-manufactured fentanyl (IMF) surging fivefold 2014-2017 (CDC, 2020), resultant fentanyl panic has spawned misinformation in mainstream and social media. This analysis focuses on the rumored risks of incidental exposure to fentanyl. Supposed consequences of casual tactile and respiratory contact with powder fentanyl have been purported to include shortness of breath, heart palpitations, fainting, and other sequelae; none of these symptoms is consistent with opioid toxicity (ACMT, 2017). Despite scientific consensus debunking such risk (ACMT, 2017), some government communiques (e.g. Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA)) have amplified rumors and continue to feature inaccurate information (DEA, 2016) (See Supplement 1, Fig. 2).

(snip)

As is evident from the emerging proliferation of misinformation about COVID-19, crisis situations breed panic and rumors. In the context of the overdose crisis, misinformation about overdose risk from casual fentanyl contact has quickly permeated mainstream and social media, receiving massive excess visibility over corrective content nationwide, particularly on the social media platform Facebook, the leading source of COVID-19 misinformation in this ‘infodemic’ (Goodier, 2020). This analysis provides new formative data for future research and intervention design to address and prevent the spread of health misinformation in mainstream and social media.

[LuckyCharms]

25. A couple of observations.

I will not make any comments on whether Fentanyl can kill a person in that manner. I am not knowledgeable enough on that subject to comment.

However, I noticed at least two things in the video that leave me to believe that this event is staged:

1) The deputy's fall backwards is controlled. He lands on his right arm/shoulder blade, seemingly cushioning his fall. His head does not visually appear to strike the ground, nor is there the sound of his head hitting the ground. One could make an argument that he was not yet completely passed out, and therefore, was able to protect his head when he hit the ground, but that argument seems weak to me.

2) When the first dose of Narcan is administered nasally, the body camera dips down just before the plunger is pushed. You cannot see the Narcan actually being administered. Same with the second dose.

For these reasons, I believe that the video is staged.