Professors Tribe, Vance, and McQuade say a criminal investigation against trump should be opened.

[triron]

Link to tweet

[abqtommy]

1. I've been in favor of that since 2015.

[LymphocyteLover]

2. Certainly-- but problem is since the DOJ doesn't talk about ongoing cases, they may have already

[gab13by13]

18. Do you really believe that?

Why didn't DOJ get involved in the fraudit in Arizona, other than writing a stern letter?

[patphil]

23. Just my guess, but I think they want to see the results before taking any action.

Otherwise the Republicans will claim they interfered to stop the audit from discovering the truth.
Of course we all know the truth...nothing but cyber ninja fraud here.

[gab13by13]

25. The Arizona SOS asked the feds for help,

the cyber ninjas broke federal election laws; Title 52 - Voting and Elections - Subtitle I and II.

Ballots, voting systems, and other election materials were no longer in the custody of election officials.

[patphil]

29. Yeah, and I would think they are getting it. Again, DOJ investigations are deliberately not public.

[LymphocyteLover]

31. A lot of legal experts think it's very possible they have a serious investigation of TFG ongoing

the AZ case is more complicated but it's likely they have someone working on that too. Main problem is the law is complicated with a lot of loopholes that allow people to evade prosecution and the DOJ will only bring cases they know they can win.

[msfiddlestix]

44. Been asking the same question, but apparently there is a clause

that says the DOJ cannot intervene in any matters of election fraud as it is occurring. It can "investigate" after the fact.

I don't have the exact wording which is critical, nor the link to the DU post.

Posted a few days ago, it was simply jaw dropping.

[lees1975]

3. If Garland's justice department is to have any credibility, it must do this

otherwise the constitution is meaningless.

[triron]

4. Democracy will be in greater peril as well.

[lagomorph777]

40. This isn't optional. If Trump gets away with his crimes, America is finished.

[triron]

63. I wished some democratic Senators would say this out loud.

[Brother Mythos]

5. I could not agree more.

If our constitutional republic is to survive, it must be done.

[StarfishSaver]

6. How do you know one hasn't already been opened?

These things aren't always broadcast for public consumption, contrary to the way the Trump DOJ operated.

[soldierant]

20. Exactly. They have rules about not discussing any investigation which is ongoing.

And most of the time - excepting under Trump** - they keep those rules. As they should.

That is expecially compelling when you are investigating someone whohas crazy supporters willing - nay, proud - to show up arned at the courthouse wcarrying pirchforks and torches.

I don't say this is in fact what is happening - except in New York where it appears to be -but really, what would you expect such a massive investigation where no tiny misstep can be afforded to look like?

[msfiddlestix]

45. Maybe Lawrence Tribe, Joyce Vance, and Barbara McQuade

knows that they haven't, hence the article.

They're certainly more connected to the DOJ investigators than we are.

[StarfishSaver]

47. If you read the article, you'd know that they DON'T know whether an investigation has been opened

The first sentence: "As evidence of Donald Trump’s efforts to overturn the 2020 election mounts, the time has come for the Justice Department to begin, IF IT HASN’T ALREADY, a criminal investigation of the former president’s dangerous course of conduct."

As I said, none of us - including Tribe, Vance and McQuade - know whether or not DOJ has already opened an investigation.

[msfiddlestix]

52. I did read the excerpt, and yes that very quote

I also read between the lines.

Tribe, Vance, McQuade have colleagues in the DOJ. Not everyone in the DOJ is privileged to know whether or not any investigation which isn't public, is in fact happening or not.

But they do have connections, how close to the Attorney General is another question.

However, it really doesn't matter whether or not they have first hand information or not. They are doing a public service, none the less and I applaud them for doing so.

Don't you?

I respect their knowledge, their insights and their counsel..

Don't you?

I respect them for putting out there in the public fora, and framing it as an "unknown" question regardless if they happen to have insight on the matter or not.

I suspect they might have insight. I suspect they have knowledge on Garlands attitude about any investigation against tfg, and he feels that it's too partisan/political for the DOJ to undertake. I feel they suspected as many of us have, but they know, or learned something that confirmed these suspicions.

I don't think that's too difficult to discern, do you?

[StarfishSaver]

54. I respect them. I also know they get paid to write provocative articles like this

and laying out a "roadmap" like this is part of it. And the fact that they put a big caveat in the very first sentence is a huge CYA for them because they know it's very possible (and probably likely) an investigation has already begun.

This article is for public consumption

But think whatever you want. I just don't understand why so many people are so eager to get themselves worked up over this and have no willingness to wait and let this play out. It's not as if ranting on social media about what you think DOJ isn't doing is going to change anything. It's just wanted energy in my view.

But so is arguing with people who are hellbent on finding something to complain about and are likely to continue fussing and fuming and worrying about something about which they have little knowledge and less control, regardless what I say. So I'll just leave it there and let y'all carry on to your heart's content.

[msfiddlestix]

57. it's about accountability for the most treasonous crime ever in the history by a U.S. President.

if demanding, thirsting, salivating, ranting on line for accountability on a matter as grave to our democracy perpetrated by "individual one" and his cult followers, isn't worthy of getting all worked up about, I don't know what the hell is or why we even bother voting for that matter.

If there isn't genuine and timely accountability on this one matter alone... it is surely to happen again with no consequences.

Certainly, you must know this.

[StarfishSaver]

59. I know that getting worked up assuming process isn't working when the process hasn't yet played out

especially when you know little about how the process actually works is a waste of time.

If, after the process plays out, people find the process didn't work, there's plenty of time to be upset.

But throwing fits in the midst of a process - especially when you don't understand how the process works and have no way of knowing what is going on within that process because, by definition, the process at this stage is not transparent, by necessity - assuming nothing is being done and the process will not work - is foolish and premature.

But some people thrive on this kind of self-inflicted drama, so, if that's your jam, by all means, knock yourself out.

[msfiddlestix]

60. kind of avoiding the point it seems to me

if the process is underway, excellent.

But if it actually isn't underway.. as it should be.... this gives tfg and his cult followers encouragement to strike again at any time, including tomorrow, today, next week, next month.

IF the process is actually underway, but kept secret, what then? Secret Trials? Secret Acquittals? Secret Dismissals? How do we learn of those actions? a redacted memo? FOIA requests?

I just don't feel they would put forward a deceptive theory to the public on such a matter as this, given that it was carefully thought out and given agreement on every factual point is paramount in joining together in co-writing this piece.

I'm not a lawyer, nor a journalists, but I do know what is involved in co-authoring articles.

Even Opinion pieces, facts matter. I trust they are fully grounded in terms of combined breadth of knowledge and experience with regard to the processes involved with Federal Investigations and Prosecutions.

Their credibility and livelihoods would be tanked if it were not the case, wouldn't you agree to that point?

[StarfishSaver]

62. They covered their asses by not claiming an investigation has not begun and, in fact, by

offering a caveat that it may already have been started.

Thus, if it turns out that an investigation has already begun, they are not in the position of having claimed wrongly that nothing was being done. That's very different than claiming DOJ isn't doing anything, as some people here are doing.

They have not put forward a "deceptive theory." They're explaining how and why they think DOJ should proceed with criminal charges. And they began by specifically stating that DOJ may already have begun doing this.

And your claim about "secret trials," etc. is ridiculous. Investigations of this type are almost always conducted in secret at this stage. That's how this works, as it should. Properly conducted investigations are not done in the media nor do the investigators and prosecutors announce every development and step to the public in real time. We learn about the investigations when an indictment comes down or, in some cases (but not always), when a decision is made not to proceed with criminal charges.

[msfiddlestix]

65. Exactly...

the problem.

We learn about the investigations when an indictment comes down or, in some cases (but not always), when a decision is made not to proceed with criminal charges.

That's a significant point at issue.

[Evolve Dammit]

7. I've lost faith after Fitzmas, Mueller etc. Show us the justice.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

17. Really ! If you can't get him for

negligent homicide for killing covid victims

his Loony Tune tax returns - with hidden income EVERYWHERE

his numerous sexual assaults

his orchestrating a coup against our government and ordering the Natl Guard
to stand down (slow down)

his traitorous acts with Russia and the Ukraine deal

his utter disregard for ANY emolument restraint

his pocketing of charity money

his pocketing of inauguration money

WTF

[gab13by13]

19. Yeah but, maybe there are hidden investigations going on?

Do I need the sarcasm thingy?

[Laura PourMeADrink]

28. That's exactly what's been so exhausting for so many years

[Elessar Zappa]

38. Why would the DOJ

let bloggers like this site know what they’re doing? Sorry but we’re not entitled to know everything going on.

[triron]

27. Bogles the mind.

[Evolve Dammit]

30. Some have suggested he would divulge national security details if actually indicted...

This wouldn't surprise me, but he really needs to be indicted for the many things you mention. And probably many more we don't know about. Can't imagine that the many intel agencies don't have very incriminating info.
WTF is right. Teflon Don the Con, Mob Boss, King of Magaland. Even the hearings are only fact-finding, investigative panels. There will be no judicial action(s) taken, unless referred to DOJ for prosecution. Not even sure they would do that....

[Laura PourMeADrink]

32. "Divulging national security secrets" is that a crime?

Not that anybody would indict him but just wondering.

Heard an interview of him today. It finally dawned on him that along with boasting about him pushing for a vaccine, he should have coupled that with "go get it". Guess he's slipping as a narcissist LOL

[Evolve Dammit]

33. That would have been waaay too human for the orange monstrosity. He cares not for anyone.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

34. Exactly. He's back in New Jersey though right?

Maybe his golf buddies there told him, "Hey you should have gotten more credit for that vaccine. It's your fucking vaccine! Tell people to get it! It's the trump vaccine! "

[Evolve Dammit]

35. Too late methinks. Yeah Bedminster. Magaland North Central Atlantic. Hope a Trump steak ends it.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

58. Yes. Just think where we'd be right now if he had figured out

last year how he could have won

[Evolve Dammit]

61. I can't let myself go there. 1/6 made it all too clear how close we are to losing it all.

[lagomorph777]

41. Not negligent homicide at all.

Deliberate, carefully planned and executed GENOCIDE. He prepared the pandemic for years, starting with firing our people in Wuhan, and then the Pandemic Response Team. These were not coincidences.

[triron]

64. knr

[bucolic_frolic]

8. It would be ironic after all the Mueller evidence & 2 impeachments

that what got him was additional alleged criminal behavior surrounding a whole new power grab with relatively ordinary charges of conspiracy and obstruction.

[calimary]

9. Well, didn't they finally get Al Capone for tax evasion?

Hey, whatever works!

[oasis]

16. +1

[Marius25]

11. Of course it should be. But will it?

I have my doubts.

[BigmanPigman]

12. Why hasn't at least one investigation already started?

There are a tons of crimes to nail him for. What's taking so long? All I fucking hear about is The Big Lie and more BS from Traitor Green, the gun-totin' middle school mean girl from CO, a sexual trafficker of underage girls, and a cross-eyed whiny little bitch hosting Fux Ruse from Hungary. Let's wipe them off of the media's front page and get some real charges against the fucking moron going instead.

[Captain Zero]

13. Drag feet and the next election rolls around

And then they can't investigate him while he's running again because it would look political.

Unfortunately I see this going there.

[BigmanPigman]

14. That's exactly what they are aiming for.

[StarfishSaver]

49. And you know this, how?

Is Merrick Garland confiding in you?

[Laura PourMeADrink]

15. Amen !

[StarfishSaver]

22. Are you working on the inside of DOJ?

If not, how do you know no investigations have begun?

[gab13by13]

26. This sounds like a Don Rumsfeld question.

[gab13by13]

21. Hey but a Senate committee,

not the House select committee, not the DOJ, has questioned Rosen, and plans to question other people involved, and when they are done they are going to issue a report. Does that inspire anyone?

The select committee needs to subpoena someone who refuses to testify and get the court case over with so that it sets a precedent for future subpoenas.

[lagomorph777]

42. Committees can't throw Trump in jail.

DOJ has to get going on this.

[triron]

46. Hopefully they already are.

[lagomorph777]

48. They're letting the terrorists walk free. Not optimistic they will do any better to the terror boss

[patphil]

24. The reveal of Trump's calls to Rosen and Donoghue gives us some idea of what is going on.

That plus Jeffery Clark's activities. There is a lot we don't know that is happening, and we are just getting a peek under the lid.

[spanone]

36. K&R...

[kentuck]

37. In my opinion...

The DOJ is waiting to see what evidence the Judiciary and Select Committees come up with, in order to have more consensus? It will not be possible to have 100% consensus but they must try. It is a volatile political issue.

However, I think, after the witnesses come forth, they will have no choice but to file criminal charges.

In the end, it will be more important that the people have the facts, rather than punishment and accountability, they may decide?

If the people have the facts, they can decide the punishment at the polls. They can hold accountable those that were complicit in the attack upon our Capitol and our democracy.

[lagomorph777]

43. DOJ's job is to seek truth and justice, not consensus.

Allowing it to operate in a political way is exactly how we got into this mess.

[StarfishSaver]

50. True. And seeking truth and justice means taking the time to get it right in the long run

not rushing and scrambling to satisfy the timelines set by the most impatient members of the blogosphere.

[lagomorph777]

51. I'd be more patient if I didn't see them letting the Jan 6th terrorist troops off the hook.

The plea deals, Cancun vacations, and community service sentences have been deeply disheartening.

[StarfishSaver]

53. You're blaming DOJ for judges' decisions

and matters dictated by law, actual facts, and available evidence.

Plea bargains are actually good things - they allow convictions without having to go through the time, expense and distractions of trials. And you can't blame DOJ lawyers for decisions that judges make or for doing only what they can under the law.

The problem here is that too many people who don't know the law are jumping to conclusions without any real basis for understanding how all of this works - or that the law and justice is more than simply "throwing the book at" people to satisfy an impatient, but uninformed public. I'm not criticizing people for not knowing the law. But it is frustrating watching people who don't know the law attack and second guess people who not only k ow the law but are required to adhere to it for not doing what they think they should do based on that lack of knowledge.

We don't second-guess plumbers, mechanics, and doctors this way - in fact, we harshly criticize those who second-guess doctors when it comes to COVID. But for some reason, everyone thinks they're legal experts and they know better than the lawyers how these investigations and cases should go. And if they don't go exactly how they believe they should - and on the timeline they dictate - that means nothing is being done or the lawyers are incompetent or complicit.

As some here have pointed out, this isn't Law and Order where everything is wrapped up by the end of the episode. This is really complicated stuff and it takes time. Be patient - it's happening, even if you can't see it yet.

[lagomorph777]

55. Some of that is judges. Much of it is prosecutors.

Sure, dispense with the trial and justice. There's video evidence for most of these crimes. Prosecutors should be thrilled to bring these terrorists to trial.

We all thought the Mueller investigation was the real deal. Until it wasn't.

[StarfishSaver]

56. I also recall people here insisting Democrats would never impeach

And when they did - twice -and it turned out that all of the naysaying was completely off-base, many of those same folks just shrugged and said, "meh."

I always found it to be the wiser course of action to wait and see what happens rather than get myself worked up assuming the worst case scenario in situations like this where I have no control over the process and outcome. If things turn out well, I'm gratified not to have wasted my time and energy worrying about something that didn't happen. And if they turn out badly, there's plenty of time and opportunity at that point to get upset.

But all of this speculation, accusations, assumptions of the worst, etc. is in my view a complete waste of time.

[dalton99a]

39. Kick

[triron]

66. Now also Dan Goldman.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

67. TFG needs to be prosecuted and convicted or he will try this again