I think that the collapse of the Afghan army is proof that the withdrawal is necessary.

[panader0]

They are just retreating everywhere. I heard on the TV that the Afghan army outnumbers the Taliban,
has more arms and planes, etc, etc all courtesy of the US taxpayers, and yet they are turning tail and
not putting up a fight. Perhaps they were just in it for a paycheck. All of that equipment will end up in
the hands of the Taliban soon.

[greenjar_01]

1. Correct

Good money after bad. Fact of the mater is that they don't want us there, and they'll have to work out their own thing.

Sucks, but that's what it is.

[panader0]

3. The US dealings in the Middle East, starting long ago but escalating under Bush,

have been a boondoggle of epic proportions. The number of refugees fleeing the decades of war
has caused huge problems in other nations, all the way through Europe. The number of deaths,
the unbelievable waste of taxpayer money, has made the US a bully to Arabs and caused so many
good projects to be abandoned because of no funding. Think of the good that could have been
accomplished with the funds and lives spent in a no win situation. Who benefitted?

[brush]

2. Yeah, we couldn't stay there forever. If they don't want to fight...

for their own country without the US being there to save them from the big bad Taliban, forget it.

Let the Afghans sort out their own affairs. If the Taliban takes over and treats the people poorly, they have to decide what to do. Not us or anyone else.

I do feel for the people that helped us. Hope they get out.

[maxsolomon]

12. "If the Taliban takes over and treats the people poorly"?

That's kind of their whole thing. They already treated people like shit before 9/11. No school for girls, no music, no kite flying, etc.

The Afghan people will be able to do what people under oppressive authoritarian regimes have always been able to do: suffer.

See: NK, Myanmar, Iran, Belarus, etc.

[Rustyeye77]

17. Wow....just wow.

I know how this works…the moment I say how I feel about your post I will be alerted on.

So all I can say is wow.

[maxsolomon]

18. I won't alert on you. Go for it.

I don't know why your pro-intervention posts got alerted on. It wasn't me.

[Rustyeye77]

20. You may not but someone will.

All I will say, I am repulsed by YOUR POST.

TO THE JURY… I did not attack anyone. I attacked the post itself.

Max… here’s how it works..,the power of the majority uses that power to attack anyone who dares think differently. Want to bet thiss post will be deleted because I disagree with you ? Just watch

[LanternWaste]

21. Ten bucks says you fail to see the irony in your having expressed that...

Will he tea?

[brush]

23. How many more decades do you want to stay there?

Nations have to determine their own destiny at some point. It's not up to other nations.

[maxsolomon]

27. Did I say that? I didn't. I'm responding to your "if" regarding the Taliban.

I have never said we should stay. We had our chance and Bush the Lesser fucked it up good by choosing to invade Iraq. I agree with Biden's decision, and Trump's earlier negotiations with the Taliban gave him good cover to make it.

BTW, Pakistan disagrees with your last sentence, and has all along.

[brush]

29. Pakistan notwithstanding, it's still up to Afgankistan to determine...

it's own destiny even if Pakistan meddles. At some point the Afghanistan people have to decide. Who knows what will be done. That Taliban could very well take over, Pakistan influence will still be felt unless the Afghanis stop it. It's their business now. We did what we could for twenty years. That's quite a bit. That's longer than we helped Europe with the Marshall Plan.

We should have enough of being the world's policemen when ever some crisis develops in distant lands. We've got things to straighten out here, like keeping our democracy by halting vote suppression by republicans. They're just as much enemies as the Taliban is to the Afchanis.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

38. Iran despises the Taliban because they believe they make a mockery of Islam

[maxsolomon]

39. Sunni/Shia divide.

almost as old as Islam.

[leftstreet]

4. Don't assume all that US $$$ went where it should have

Remember Rumsfeld's pallets of cash?

Afghanistan is essentially a narco state, and the Taliban are better equipped and numbered than people realize

[panader0]

6. Yep. The amount of cash that was "lost" is like the GNP of some nations.

My only hope in this is that the US will learn--I know that's a dream.......

[dalton99a]

5. Yep, the Taliban will soon be wearing American shoes and flying American airplanes

[maxsolomon]

28. If/when Kabul falls entirely

the US will destroy the planes and anything else the Afghan Govt leaves behind.

[Midnight Writer]

7. You can't install freedom at the point of a gun.

Unfortunately, you can install tyranny at the point of a gun.

We armed them, trained them, gave them the tools to govern themselves, gave them a 20 year buffer against the Taliban.

It's a damn shame, but what more can we do?

[CanonRay]

8. 20 years of training and arming them

comes to nothing. Just shows the futility of this kind of war. I wish we could have gotten everyone out who wanted to leave before announcing the withdrawal

[wwprogressive]

9. Graveyard of Empires

Nation after nation has lost wars in Afghanistan. That is why it is called the "graveyard of empires". Just like the Taliban is rolling over the Afghanistan army, as Americans are exiting the country, the communist North Vietnamese army rolled over the South Vietnamese army, as Americans exited Vietnam. Well, what the heck, the military industrial complex beast has been fed once again.

[The Revolution]

34. Is it really the graveyard of empires?

[wwprogressive]

41. A hitch in our gitty-up for a while

Thanks for this enlightening video. This was a very odd war on the part of the U.S. We went in to destroy a handful of Al Qaeda terrorists living in caves supposedly responsible for 911. And, I have always questioned the connection of those dots. That mission expanded into destroying all members of Al Qaeda in Iraq, causing a serious conflict between the Shia and Shites. Then, ramping up the war in Afghanistan, we expanded our mission to destroy the Taliban. And, now the Taliban are retaking the country, as we exit. Whether this adventure will be the graveyard of the American empire, I can only hope not, but it certainly was the graveyard of American blood and American treasure and over 360,000 civilian deaths. I imagine these 20 year Middle Eastern wars will cause a contraction, on America's part, of any future thoughts of policing the world. At least, it may put a hitch in our gitty-up for a while.

[wwprogressive]

43. Oh what a web we wove

I misnamed the tribes in the Iraq conflict in my comments above. It was Shites (aka Shia) vs. Sunnis. And Isis, which we eventually destroyed in Iraq (after their invasion into Syria) was an outgrowth of the Sunni tribe, which Saddam Hussein controlled before he was hung after we captured him. After Saddam was killed, the tribal conflict erupted leading to Isis metastasizing. Oh what a web we wove in that confluence of ethnic, religious and feuding tribal conflicts going back thousands of years.

[Duppers]

42. It was Mike Malloy who said: "Afghanistan - where empires go to die."

[JI7]

10. He was also right in leaving Bagram without informing anyone before

It seemed kind of wrong when first reported but Always knew it had to do without security send safety.

[JI7]

11. Afghans are blaming Pakistan

[maxsolomon]

13. Since Pakistan has nurtured the Taliban during 2 decades of exile,

I'd say they have a good point.

[JoanofArgh]

14. The people on MSNBC sound like a bunch of warmongers. Saying we just abandoned the Afghani people

and they feel betrayed blah , blah, blah. It's all our fault. I suggest Afghani's have a talk with their own army who are too busy running to defend their own people.

[dsp3000]

40. When the Trump and subsequently Biden administrations pulls the rug from under those they support

Imagine if you were an afghan soldier on the ground who realized you wont be getting any tactical support from the major superpower you depended on. you would cut and run and say F this. this is the same BS vietnamization all over again that collapsed south vietnam and it's going to cost the administration politically.

[Rustyeye77]

15. I respectfully disagree.

I think it proves the opposite.

[JI7]

24. And how long should the US have stayed ?

[bluedevil4]

16. I agree with the

pull out and was one that felt we never should have been there to begin with.
We should have securely taken all Americans out first so we wouldn’t have to go back in .

[maxsolomon]

19. I asked this question to a similar post yesterday:

Do you mean we should never have attacked Al Qaeda's base of operations with force in the wake of 9/11?

Or do you mean we should not have invaded and expelled the Taliban?

[bluedevil4]

31. Good question

The invasion in the wake of 9/11 is my answer. I think the taliban came after

[we can do it]

22. Yep. Enough wasted lives and money.

[mcar]

26. 20 years is more than enough

The Afghan government has had 2 decades to get its act together.

My heart breaks for women and girls there, but enough is enough.

[wwprogressive]

30. Leave no one behind

Just like United Nation troops were sent into Syria to support war relief efforts, I hope the UN and other countries, like the French Foreign Legion, will extend their on ground support in Afghanistan to help save the lives of women, children and interpreters, whose lives are in danger. I firmly believe the U.S. should open its doors wide for all disposed Afghanistan refugees. And, we should use U.S. special operation teams to get all our Afghanistan allies, who wish to leave, out of there. Leave no one behind.

[hunter]

32. Change has to come from within.

It's a reality of life that hurts bad.

[DashOneBravo]

33. I agree

[Demsrule86]

35. It is possible we planted a seed that with time may lead to something better.

[The Revolution]

36. Can't stay forever, but this is on Bush

I think going to war in Afghanistan was justified, and that includes removing the Taliban. Maybe nation building there was always doomed to failure, maybe not. But Bush and co. blew any chance of success when they completely took their eyes off the ball to lie their way in to an illegal and unjust war in Iraq.

[ecstatic]

37. We shouldn't have gone in the first place

And as awful as the optics are right now, we can't keep digging. 20 years, nothing accomplished. Enough.

[SweetieD]

44. I would imagine the average Afghan is more closely aligned with the thinking and culture

of the Taliban than any American. They aren't fighting back because they don't care if they take over as far as way of life/day to day living. Individual army members are fleeing because they are scared of retaliation when they do take over.