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What's the deal with the Afghan army? A heard a report that they are "melting away"... (Original Post) Dream Girl Aug 2021 OP
We never fully understood their internal politics paleotn Aug 2021 #1
Yep. It seems that shoving democracy down their throats doesn't work. Go figure. zuul Aug 2021 #11
AFAIK we were training and providing equipment, not sure what. Thomas Hurt Aug 2021 #2
Thanks Bush Corgigal Aug 2021 #3
+1,000 zuul Aug 2021 #12
That was inevitable. MineralMan Aug 2021 #4
Every army does this when defeat is inevitable. brooklynite Aug 2021 #5
Afghan army soldiers have been deserting from the get-go Brother Buzz Aug 2021 #9
One side genuinely believes Allah is on their side, the other side is just doing it for a paycheck ansible Aug 2021 #6
We were never in charge there. Javaman Aug 2021 #7
Meanwhile real people are suffering cilla4progress Aug 2021 #8
Well yeah, they want the Taliban in charge. BlueTsunami2018 Aug 2021 #10
Tribal/provincial allegiances rather than allegiance to an ideal. haele Aug 2021 #13
Well said. SharonClark Aug 2021 #15
Should support in funding a Foreign Legion to fight the Taliban Amishman Aug 2021 #14
Tribes... religion, family, tribe, they have no reason to fight for an "Afghanistan" Shanti Shanti Shanti Aug 2021 #16

paleotn

(17,911 posts)
1. We never fully understood their internal politics
Fri Aug 13, 2021, 11:09 AM
Aug 2021

And never chose to learn. Their world doesn’t work like ours. Beyond that, it’s complicated. And inevitable.

Thomas Hurt

(13,903 posts)
2. AFAIK we were training and providing equipment, not sure what.
Fri Aug 13, 2021, 11:10 AM
Aug 2021

Not to mention whatever was left behind. If it wasn't looted by civilians that is.

I suspect we provided a standing regular army to the Taliban leadership.

Corgigal

(9,291 posts)
3. Thanks Bush
Fri Aug 13, 2021, 11:14 AM
Aug 2021

Should have never went in. Family and I marched in Washington against it. Contacted everyone I could, nothing mattered.

Of course, it was going to end like this. The locals just wanted a paycheck, joined up with us, They knew we would leave one day, and they are right. I feel sorry for the children, but maybe this wouldn’t have happened, if we didn’t stay there for 20 years. Media is caring now, they didn’t for ten years.

MineralMan

(146,286 posts)
4. That was inevitable.
Fri Aug 13, 2021, 11:18 AM
Aug 2021

Only as long as we had troops there and could offer air support could the Afghan military remain in control. Independently, they cannot.

It didn't matter when we left. As soon as we did, the Taliban was bound to take control. Anyone who has watched that region for very long could predict that.

It is a shame, but no amount of time would be enough for the US, or any other nation, to stabilize the situation in Afghanistan. Nobody has ever been able to do that from outside of the region. Many have tried. None have succeeded.

We, and others in Western nations, do not understand the dynamics in the Middle East. We simply do not, so we fail every time we try to put our ideas of government in place there.

It always was a waste of our time, military, and money. The locals will decide who is in power, not us.

Brother Buzz

(36,416 posts)
9. Afghan army soldiers have been deserting from the get-go
Fri Aug 13, 2021, 11:37 AM
Aug 2021

Even during the Soviet era, desertion was rampant

 

ansible

(1,718 posts)
6. One side genuinely believes Allah is on their side, the other side is just doing it for a paycheck
Fri Aug 13, 2021, 11:19 AM
Aug 2021

Who do you think will win?

Javaman

(62,517 posts)
7. We were never in charge there.
Fri Aug 13, 2021, 11:19 AM
Aug 2021

we gave cover to the lie.

a rebel army's mission isn't to win, but not to lose.

they did not lose and just waited us out.

BlueTsunami2018

(3,490 posts)
10. Well yeah, they want the Taliban in charge.
Fri Aug 13, 2021, 11:44 AM
Aug 2021

This is what they want and so this is what they’ll have. What an incredible waste it was for us to be there.

haele

(12,647 posts)
13. Tribal/provincial allegiances rather than allegiance to an ideal.
Fri Aug 13, 2021, 11:53 AM
Aug 2021

A weak and corrupt Afghan government with too many "leaders" propped up by corporations and the resource interests of other nations (China, India, Russia, US) that did not actually attempt to govern or attempt build a country and a middle class worth fighting for.
When the government doesn't really believe in overarching rights and legal status for everyone, then how many people are willing to fight for it?
Certainly not the majority of people coming from villages where there are few opportunities for advancement other than becoming a local "head man", who when they join the Army or become a government employee, are looked down upon because they are provincial and not from one of the "good families" or educated in one of the cities.

In our own Civil War, the South had similar problems with poor whites and the unspoken caste systems in their Army and Confederate government. Once a soldier was no longer in a "local" unit with fellows they knew or grew up in the same area, his chance of just going AWOL and heading back home significantly increased.

Respect and comraderie are significant reasons to continue to fight. The sad thing is that the average male Afghan soldier believes he will get the same rights and respect under a Taliban government as he would under a "democratic" government like the current one. His "warlord" will treat him like kin; lesser, true, but still in line for praise and rewards if he does his job. Plus, he gets to loot to offset his pay.

That's what our Army training couldn't overcome. The cultural barriers were enormous, and our State department was hobbled by Conservative and corporate interests when trying to do the hard work of turning a culture of privileged autocracy into a Democracy that would treat the various tribes in such a way that everyone saw opportunities and advancements.

Just my two cents.

Haele


SharonClark

(10,014 posts)
15. Well said.
Fri Aug 13, 2021, 12:16 PM
Aug 2021

Before - Tribalism and corruption.
Now - Tribalism, corruption, and for some, a desire to survive.

Amishman

(5,555 posts)
14. Should support in funding a Foreign Legion to fight the Taliban
Fri Aug 13, 2021, 12:10 PM
Aug 2021

Give our own gunners and nuts a chance to sign up, ship em over there with their assault rifles, and let them and the Taliban shoot each other

 

Shanti Shanti Shanti

(12,047 posts)
16. Tribes... religion, family, tribe, they have no reason to fight for an "Afghanistan"
Fri Aug 13, 2021, 12:45 PM
Aug 2021

Thats our "nation building" shit again

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