Re: Afghanistan. It was always going to end this way, wasn't it?

[intrepidity]

In trying to find some--any--silver lining, can we say that at least for *some* of the population, for *some* period of time, they got to experience what life without the Taliban rule felt like, and who knows, if enough of them found value in that, perhaps they will do what it takes to reshape their country in the future?

We tried to equip them to move forward in that direction, and unfortunately, for now, those resources are falling into enemy hands. It really is up to the Afghani people to decide whether they will tolerate that.

It was always going to end this way, but I disagree with the notion that it was all for naught.

[Mike Nelson]

1. I think so...

... it was an error, but it isn't Biden. The mission was ill-conceived. GWB and his war planners failed. Each President shares some responsibility, yes, but it is a Bush Administration failure. We were supposed to be teaching them? We had 20 years there... Maybe we should have been learning, instead of teaching.

[Andy823]

3. Exactly!

They failed big time, and they lied to everyone about how long we would be there. It seems like republicans do a great job of screwing things up, and then when a Democrat gets into office, they have to tackle not only the mess the republicans left here in the US, but also the mess they make in other places around the globe!

[bluestarone]

16. Exactly right.

Really does come under the heading of, JUST ANOTHER DUMB FN THING THE RETHUGS DID! Plus trying to BLAME the Democrats for what's happening now! That's who they are, THEY create the problem and WE get the blame.

[Baitball Blogger]

25. Bush didn't have plans beyond killing Khadaffi in the first hour of a shock and awe.

He told his own people that no one would die. And they blindly supported him. The cowards didn't even accept responsibility for that ill-founded support. It just all fell apart like a whimper.

[Srkdqltr]

2. You are very right.

It was said going in and here we are. We didn't learn from Vietnam.
The people who we are rescuing have to want rescue.

[hlthe2b]

4. As per my sigline, had we learned from British or Russian (Soviet) history, yes.

though the ancient Persians and Alexander the Great managed to conquer them. But... modern history, no one.

[Rustyeye77]

5. No...it didn't have to be that way.

I love Joe Biden but I think he made a mistake.

The Afghan people DID decide what they wanted.

Sure,

The young girls got a taste of Freedom….and we pulled the rug from under them
The country had a democracy…..and we pulled the rug from under them
Women could work in govt and in private sector….and we pulled the rug from under them
Young boys were in real schools….and we pulled the rug from under them
Al-queda was never to return…and we pulled the rug from under them

I don’t think history will be kind to us.

If the US stands for something, this is the moment .

[intrepidity]

8. How could it have been different?

If we stayed indefinitely?

[Rustyeye77]

11. No... of course not

I wanted out….But not like this.

The Afghan military was obviously a disaster. Terrible mistake.

Mistakes can be corrected.

Afghanistan will be a tragedy.

I hope Joe has 2nd thoughts.

[Bev54]

12. Look you had a decision, a forever war or get out

My heart is heavy especially for the women of Afghanistan but it was inevitable. The US forces tried hard for 20 years to train and give them the tools to fight for their country. They just don't have the will and you cannot give them that. It is just happening faster so it looks worse but it was always going to happen unless the US stayed forever and the majority did not want that.

[Rustyeye77]

14. There are more than one answer.

ok...I dont wish to argue.

If the US stands for something, this is the moment

If not , then the people of Afghanistan will be doomed.

I wish you well.

[JI7]

21. But what is that answer ?

[JI7]

19. Only thing keeping it together was the US military. And even that was fragile

[zuul]

6. Let's ask the 70,000 Afghan/Pakistani civilians that have been killed since 2001 if it was worth it.

While we're at it, let's ask the 2,000 U.S. service members that were killed if it was worth it.

WAR IS A RACKET.

A handful of rich assholes get richer by charging our government for the latest tools of destruction, our military leaders get to play with a bunch of new death toys, and billions of our dollars that could have been used to help our own people are wasted. I'm sorry, but I don't see any value in that for average Americans.

[WarGamer]

7. It was a waste of time/lives from Day 1.

Boots on the ground was an arrogant mistake.

a Decade of aggressive aerial actions would have been more effective and saved Trillions of dollars and thousands of US lives.

[intrepidity]

9. Except, much of those early days focused on bin Laden, didn't they?

Was there value in removing him?

[Irish_Dem]

10. Could probably have taught them this life lesson for less than $2 Trillon?

And many thousands of lives lost.

[halfulglas]

13. One thing over the last 20 years we never seriously addressed

Was the influence of Saudi Arabian money backing the Wahabi sect religious madrasas in the villages and how much their resistance to change. Even those villagers who didn't particularly back the Taliban were very resistant to modernity and improvement in the lives of the women and girls. I've never thought there would be any real change without getting the Saudis to stop the flow of money.

[RANDYWILDMAN]

17. The saudi's have been a problem my whole life

people will loads of money and religious leaders who are very backwards and who treat woman as little more then possessions.

Anytime the Saudi's back something, it's for sure not progressive....

[CanonRay]

15. This year, next year, or in 10 more years

Same result. I only wish we could have planned better to get more people out.

[Skittles]

18. yes, after wasting countless lives and trillions of dollars

there was never going to be ANY benefit

[Jilly_in_VA]

20. Of course it was

We should never, EVER get into nation building. It's stupid. And nobody ever learns. Nobody. If the mission was to go after bin Laden, it didn't take a whole freaking force. It took a small, surgical one. And anyway, he was in Pakistan.....maybe the whole time.

[Raine]

22. It gave the women and girls a better life for awhile but

now it will be worse for them. It might have been better to have never had that then getting it and it being taken away that's really cruel.

[Hortensis]

23. George W. Bush on invading Afghanistan in 2001,

with the excuse that the Taliban, which then governed most of Afghanistan, refused to turn over Al Qaeda leaders who had planned 9/11: Operation Enduring Freedom would mean “a lengthy campaign unlike any other we have ever seen.”

Yup. Twenty years later white nationalist/isolationist president tRump imagined he reached a self-serving deal with the Taliban when he announced we were leaving Afghanistan. Only a tRump could believe the Taliban zealots would meet the weakness of the American wish to withdraw with anything but all the strength they had to regain control. Civil war for as long as it took.

Our presence and influence did encourage many to potentially put their lives at risk by embracing modern and western notions. How their return to power is viewed in future will depend on how many they kill, or don't.

[Chainfire]

24. Of course it was how it was destined to end.

Getting involved in civil wars just makes you hated by both sides. You can buy loyalty if you can afford it, but when the money runs out, so do the ones who supported your effort. When the Taliban gains undisputed control, there will be a reckoning with the "traitors" who fought against them. It is the way of war.

Of course the war has been a big win for the people who make the bombs and bullets. They will make sure that we take the war on the road to some struggling nation. Wait for it...less than 12 months. I like South America, but I would also suspect that we could find or make a "hot-spot" somewhere in Africa.

[alphafemale]

26. Yes. I knew this when they went in.

Another 1 year or a hundred years. Stop spending flesh, money and time.

A significant portion of the county would revert back to live like the 5th century no matter how long we stayed there.