People lying to get their third shot

[luv2fly]

I'm hearing stories of as many as a million people have gotten their third shot by lying. Shame on them, I hope they are prosecuted fully.

[brooklynite]

1. What stories?

Documented news reports? Personal Anecdotes? Tweets?

[luv2fly]

11. The stories I heard

News etc, no I'm not echoing tRumps "I heard" mantra.

It's all over Google, these already a week old.

https://www.newsweek.com/americans-lying-get-third-covid-shot-im-not-going-wait-another-6-months-1617228

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/08/06/nation/lying-about-vaccination-status-crossing-state-lines-pretending-forget-id-some-people-are-going-intense-lengths-get-unauthorized-covid-booster-shots/

[krawhitham]

93. FDA only approved 3rd shot 3 days ago, so if stories go back a week they are BS

And even if true, WHO CARES. We have the supply, the shots are not considered surplus so we are not going to give them away to other countries. So why not use them

It's only a mater of time before everyone vaxed needs/wants/gets one

[USALiberal]

2. Source?? Nt

[Blues Heron]

3. who cares? they're tossing out doses for lack of demand

maybe it 'll cut down on the spread.

[JCMach1]

43. Precisely...

[meadowlander]

55. Meanwhile in India and Africa...

[Blues Heron]

75. They're tossing out doses not sending them to India or Africa

Its a use it or lose it situation. Its not like they stole a dose from a deserving person in India or Africa - they go in the trash if they're not used.

[cadoman]

83. exactly, this stuff has a shelf life and transmission concerns

I'm sure there are certain cases where it's pragmatic to do a transfer (countries in close proximity with the right equipment), but consider what all has to fall in line for those sorts of transfers:

* Consistent storage of product at the correct temperature (was even a big issue in the US).

* Must get government approval for both the giver and receiver. Optics could be especially bad for the giver (why are they buying stuff that is going unused?).

* Transporting costs $.

* Must train personnel in the new location to handle the product correctly.

* Must overcome other recent product deployments that were screwed up that gave the factually incorrect impression that our vaccination products are not 100% safe for Africans and Indians. (Global Polio Eradication Initiative (GPEI))

Mandates are really the only way forward, in particular for red states.

[NurseJackie]

84. "Eat your vegetables. Children are starving in China..."

... my mother used to tell me. But even as a child, I realized that whether I ate them or not, it wouldn't make any difference for the starving children in China that my mother told me about.

What I'm trying to say is... the vaccines are already here. In the same way that my uneaten vegetables wouldn't have helped starving children in China, the vaccines on the shelves here won't help others in India and Africa.

[Piasladic]

4. Link or it didn't happen

cool story, though

[luv2fly]

18. Untrue

Trees don't make noise when they fall in the forest when no one is around to hear them right?

[Piasladic]

22. They also don't make nonsensical posts, right?

[luv2fly]

24. Enjoy your day

[Crunchy Frog]

28. Here.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/08/12/covid-booster-vaccine-shots/

[Piasladic]

31. a million, though?

[Crunchy Frog]

33. Sources I've seen say over a million.

And that's just for people who've had the Pfizer or Moderna, not the ones who've had the J&J.

There's information all over online.

[Piasladic]

35. show me

[Crunchy Frog]

37. Go look for it yourself. You have the Google machine don't you?

[Piasladic]

38. yeah, and none of the intertubes are saying a million liars

Last edited Sat Aug 14, 2021, 08:09 PM - Edit history (1)

I do hate it when people inflate because they're angry/emotional.

The name crunchy frog reminds me of a wow carnival thing. I sort of want to try it.

[Sympthsical]

52. From yesterday

https://apnews.com/article/business-science-health-coronavirus-pandemic-47736984ad868624eaeafc698eccc6cc

These patients have been clamoring for months for better protection, some of them traveling across state lines or lying to get another dose. About 1.1 million people already have gotten at least a third dose of the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines on their own, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention revealed, although it’s not clear how many did so because they had weakened immune systems.

Typed in "third dose million" into google without the quotes. Literally the first result. Took 10 seconds.

[Piasladic]

54. wow

I never expected that, but a million people lying? I think a lot of people honestly need boosters, but I doubt a million people are falsely getting them.

[Sympthsical]

58. Last sentence

Weird thing to get all combatative over.

Plenty of people lied to get the first doses. I know quite a few. California allowed you to click which "essential" industry you worked in on a website, then slapped you with an appointment. They did nothing to verify it, and everyone knew it.

I'm sure people are doing similarly now.

[Eugene]

61. Here you go...

Some in US getting COVID-19 boosters without FDA approval (Associated Press)

DENVER (AP) — When the delta variant started spreading, Gina Welch decided not to take any chances: She got a third, booster dose of the COVID-19 vaccine by going to a clinic and telling them it was her first shot.

The U.S. government has not approved booster shots against the virus, saying it has yet to see evidence they are necessary. But Welch and an untold number of other Americans have managed to get them by taking advantage of the nation’s vaccine surplus and loose tracking of those who have been fully vaccinated.

-snip-

Yet health care providers in the U.S. have reported more than 900 instances of people getting a third dose of COVID-19 vaccines in a database run by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, an Associated Press review of the system’s data found. Because reporting is voluntary, the full extent of people who have received third doses is unknown. It’s also unknown if all of those people were actively trying to get a third dose as a booster.

-snip-

https://apnews.com/article/business-health-coronavirus-pandemic-coronavirus-vaccine-fe8ecebb3b61c7d3ee8ed4225500cb0e

DU thread in the Health group: https://www.democraticunderground.com/114226218

[Piasladic]

62. again the question is

have a Million people lied? Even if all 900 people lied, it is not close to a million.

[Eugene]

65. Newer, more complete data from CDC says over 1 million, which is a possible undercount.

At least 1 million people got unauthorized third booster shot (ABC News - Aug. 10)

The estimated 1.1 million, included in an internal CDC briefing document reviewed by ABC News, likely is an undercount because although it counts Moderna and Pfizer shot recipients it ignores people who may have received the one-shot Johnson & Johnson vaccine and got another shot.

CDC: More Than 1 Million Have Received Unauthorized Third Dose (WebMD - Aug. 12)

It's really not that hard. Just review the records after the fact.

[Piasladic]

69. That's pretty damning

I was wrong. Sorry.

[LisaL]

88. Those were done even before FDA authorized a booster for immuno supressed.

J&J people should likely get a booster from mRNA vaccine, but FDA is dragging their feet on that.

[AkFemDem]

5. Prosecuted for what??

There’s no shortage of vaccine reserves in this country. They’re not taking anything from the arms of other people- so why the vitriol?

For the record I wouldn’t take a booster because it seems short sighted to suddenly play doctor when I’ve resisted that urge for so many years. I trust my doctor to have the most up to date info on when to safely (or if) get a booster… but I don’t care if anyone else does it. That’s not a threat to public safety.

[Cracklin Charlie]

6. Have they given a million third shots?

I thought that was just now rolling out.

[LisaL]

13. Before FDA and CDC decided to offer a third shot for immuno compromised, one million people already

got a third shot.

[RussBLib]

7. who said it was illegal?

Prosecuted fully? Don't we have enough people in jail? Let's fill 'em up with people trying to stay healthy.

no.

[SoCalDavidS]

8. I Heard Them Discussing It On CNN The Last Couple Of Days

I definitely heard it, including just this morning.

[Hortensis]

9. Selfish, but they won't be prosecuted. I hope those lying about being vaccinated

for work and other required situations are prosecuted, at least enough to make it undesirably risky.

Not the same thing, but I'm immunocompromised so looked and saw that third shots are already being offered by pharmacies, etc. I've heard both that people will be required to confirm they are in the group approved and that a prescription will not be needed.

[luv2fly]

15. You're right they won't be prosecuted

But I can still hope. It's wrong

[Peppertoo]

23. No it isn't

[LisaL]

10. Prosecuted for what?

Jeez.

[relayerbob]

12. Might try reading a bit more before

making a statement like that. Most of those were done before there was any guidance .... and note that it is a GUIDANCE, not a law. FDA doesn't require a doctors order nor prescription.

[luv2fly]

16. I read thanks

Snark appreciated.

[Mazeltov Cocktail]

14. Seriously, vaccines are expiring daily...

I got the J&J back in March, I'm probably going to get the moderna shot, it's not like I'm taking it away from someone who wants it.. I'm in Florida, I'm scared...nuff said.

[Politicub]

17. Do you have a cite?

Either way, I am angry about the unvaxxed — not people who want third shots.

On edit: I removed language about people cutting in line, since it’s not what I intended to say.

[LisaL]

19. There are really no lines to get vaxxed right now.

These people are not cutting in.

[KentuckyWoman]

29. My local Kroger and Walmart are now "walkin".

[Politicub]

32. That was a bad choice of words on my part. It's not really what I meant.

I’ll edit my post.

[luv2fly]

20. Links above

Just a quick search finds many stories.

[Peppertoo]

21. It does not hurt anyone else

We have a glut of vaccines.

[KentuckyWoman]

25. There is ZERO benefit of a third shot

Unless you are immuno-compromised.

People are idiots.

Edit to add the willfully unvaxxed are beyond stupid - but seriously you don't need 3rd. Not hurting anyone but good god.

[LisaL]

27. That is not accurate.

Immunity from vaccine wanes with time. Israel is giving the third shot to its citizens who are not immuno compromised. They already gave it to those over 60 and now are giving it to those over 50.

[KentuckyWoman]

41. You are comparing apples and oranges

Israel got the vaccines out MONTHS before we did - by early Jan they already had 30% with both shots. Israel started nearly 2 months ago giving boosters to immunio-compromised only. Just like we are now.

By November we may also need to roll out boosters for everyone as well, but according my calendar and the evidence inside the US ... we aren't there.

**********

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/23/delta-variant-pfizer-covid-vaccine-39percent-effective-in-israel-prevents-severe-illness.html

The two-dose vaccine still works very well in preventing people from getting seriously sick, demonstrating 88% effectiveness against hospitalization and 91% effectiveness against severe illness, according to the Israeli data.

**********

Look. The oil needs changed in every car. Somewhere around 5000 miles for regular oil in most cars. Well if I had the oil changed at the same time in both cars and one only got 2500 miles of light use oh sure, I can go ahead and do it. No harm done. But it is pointless.

That's what I'm saying.... those doing it now... fine... but you don't need to LIE thinking you are doing yourself any favors.... just wait until it is actually needed.

[LisaL]

44. The third dose is increasing the antibody levels.

The more antibodies one has, the merrier for fighting the virus.

[KentuckyWoman]

49. I have not seen that data.

Apparently Fauci has not seen it either because just yesterday he told all the news outlets there is NO NEED for the US general population to get a booster at this stage. I'm unaware of any data showing a third shot will reduce moderate to severe disease and/or the spread to the unvaxxed (like children).

The clinical trials on this aren't even published yet. Israel is willing to test the theory. I hope it works. Regardless, your claim is that I am wrong and there is data showing I am wrong.

I have not seen it. Can you provide it?

Like I said, I don't think those lying to get it are hurting anyone, but I see no evidence that it is beneficial at this point in the game.

Edit to add that I am not challenging you. Reading back my own response it could be taken that way so I better clarify. I'd really like to see the data and assume you have. It's also possible I misunderstood Fauci ..... so you know ..

[LisaL]

50. Pfizer showed antibodies increase after the third dose.

"Among people ages 65 to 85, the Pfizer data suggest that antibody levels that should protect against Delta grow 11-fold more than following a second dose."

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/28/health/pfizer-third-dose-data-bn/index.html

[KentuckyWoman]

56. Did they show that to translate into a real world benefit?

maybe I'm being obtuse - I've been known to be.

I just don't see anything there that would cause me to lie to the pharmacist to get a booster today instead of waiting until the efficacy of what I have actually drops to a point where the booster is needed.

I understand people are scared. I understand they see things like this and make assumptions that more is better in the real world. I get all that ...and truly they aren't harming anyone. I just think it is silly to leap to "I'm gonna die without this 3rd shot RIGHT NOW."

But like I said ... I know I tend to be obtuse.

Thanks for the link. I had not seen it.

[Disaffected]

60. You make a good point.

Reminds me of an aunt of mine who always believed that one could not get too much vitamin supplement - if some is good, more must be better. IOWs, 10 times the Covid antibody availability (or whatever the number is) does not necessarily translate into greater protection and, may result in no increase at all but with additional side effects.

If you need one gallon of water to flush your toilet, adding 10 more likely won't help....

[LisaL]

87. Give them a couple of weeks, will you?

More antibodies means better protection.
But it takes time to analyze the results.

[HUAJIAO]

51. Last year Fauci also said N95 masks were not necessary.

[KentuckyWoman]

70. For most they still aren't.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7883189/

From Section 4

Wearing masks correctly can then significantly improve their effectiveness since complete seal of respiratory particles is unlikely due to side leakage of droplets with different sizes. Correctly wearing of the surgical masks was shown to be more effective than using the N95 masks even the latter has a better facial fit (Noti et al., 2012).

Davies et al. (2013) recruited 21 healthy volunteers and collected air samples of each volunteer in three different conditions: 1. wearing a mask made of T‐shirt, 2. wearing a surgical mask, and 3. wearing no mask. Although significant differences in filtration efficiencies were found between the T‐shirt and the surgical masks, the former showed considerable reduction of respiratory droplet transmission, indicating its significance in a pandemic.

Ho et al. (2020) carried out similar experiments on adult volunteers wearing medical masks or self‐designed triple‐layer cotton masks in two different surrounding environments: a regular bedroom and a car with air conditioning on (doors closed). They found both types of masks were capable of suppressing respiratory droplets to certain degrees.

From the Summary

Considering limited resources in some regions, the home‐made masks are shown to have comparable filtration efficiencies compared to the medical masks. A conclusion can be reached based on the current studies: correctly wearing masks of all kinds, despite their different designs, functions and effectiveness, will to a large degree reduce the overall risks of COVID‐19 infection and enhance general protection from coronavirus.

[HUAJIAO]

79. I'm speaking of the efficacy of the mask in protecting the wearer.

[madville]

71. I wouldn't cite anything Fauci says on news shows as actual data or science

He's been proven wrong or a week or two behind so many times now that he's not a reliable source

[HUAJIAO]

80. So true. I think he also is extraordinarily politically naive.

[Peppertoo]

57. That is not true.

[Crunchy Frog]

26. Here's a link.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/08/12/covid-booster-vaccine-shots/

I don't see what the problem is. There is no shortage, and expired doses are getting thrown out by the thousands.

We're working on trying to get one for my almost 82 year old mother, and I don't feel that we're doing anything wrong.

Israel is already giving boosters to anyone over 50 who wants one.

[LisaL]

30. And a lot of people in Israel want a third shot.

They are going very fast. I hope it slows their covid outbreak.

[hlthe2b]

34. They've broken no laws. Your focus would be better aimed at those using/buying counterfeit

vaccination cards while refusing to be vaccinated. They have not only broken the law, but are putting ALL of us at risk. Along with the rest of the unvaccinated--, that should be our focus. Those not meeting criteria for a third booster vaccine may be acting inappropriately, but they have not broken the law and are arguably not adding to risk for the rest of us until such time vaccine shortages develop.

I'm not advocating doing such a thing, mind you, and their doing so can create problems monitoring vaccine safety. But focus where the harm is demonstrable...

[LisaL]

36. Some states are throwing vaccines out because they are expiring, thanks to anti-vaxxers who

refuse their doses.

[hlthe2b]

39. Yes. So for now these few who may not meet criteria for a booster receiving it are not

a problem. Nor do I foresee it becoming one in the near term. Focus on the unvaccinated. THEY ARE THE PROBLEM, folks!

[agingdem]

40. How are they lying?

I'm scheduled for my third Moderna vaccine tomorrow morning...it took me all of ten minutes to register and schedule a time (CVS) ...lots of questions but no proof of anything other than insurance or Medicare...

[BumRushDaShow]

42. AP had an article a week ago, that got picked up by other outlets using their feed

https://apnews.com/article/business-health-coronavirus-pandemic-coronavirus-vaccine-fe8ecebb3b61c7d3ee8ed4225500cb0e

[Wingus Dingus]

45. I wouldn't get a third one right now, although I understand the impulse

to do so. Hasn't been six months for me yet, and I'm waiting to hear what they recommend. Also I'm hoping they can target the Delta or other new variants with a booster. Anyway as others have noted, these people aren't stealing it from other people who want it, demand is still down--although the dishonesty is unfortunate.

[LisaL]

46. They can target delta with a booster.

Both Moderna and Pfizer are making delta boosters. But the clinical trials and approval will take too long.

[tritsofme]

47. Prosecuted? What a nonsense thread.

[Hekate]

48. Source? Doses are going to waste -- I am not worried about this!

[Iggo]

53. There's no shortage of shots.

[luv2fly]

59. So an unofficial poll

Based on the original post finds many are cool with lying to get the third shot. Not what I expected.

[Mariana]

67. Maybe if you could demonstrate that any harm is being done

people would be more disturbed about it. Can you demonstrate that any harm is being done? Is there a shortage of vaccines? Are there people who want a shot and can't get one because of this?

[cadoman]

82. persuasion theory actually indicates that stealing shots would increase total demand

If the shot "stealers" reach a certain # it'll begin to influence the shot hesitant.

How? The reduced supply (from the third shotters) increases demand by triggering a scarcity response among the vaccine hesitant! Right now, they know they can get the shot any time they want, but if the already vaxxed start getting even more vaxxed, the vaxx hesitant no longer have that option and they become jealous and FEARFUL.

Fear is the top persuasion technique! Fear of missing out, in this case.

The trick to this psychological influence game is for Pfizer to supply almost, but never quite enough shots. The news can help by running sob stories about persons at the back of the line who missed out and regret not getting vaccinated sooner when it was available.

Thanks Cialdini.

[tritsofme]

68. I'm really not sure why you care. How does someone getting a third shot affect you?

It’s not like there is a shortage of doses. Just a very strange thread.

[luv2fly]

74. Yep I'm not good with liars

And in this case the "me first" attitude of so many, particularly when there's no recommendation for the third shot except for the immunocompromised. It's appalling.

[tritsofme]

78. People are understandably nervous.

I would rather see a dose go to a “liar” than just expire unused on the shelf, because integrity or some such nonsense.

[KentuckyWoman]

73. I'm not cool with it, but it is nowhere on my list of worries.

I just think it's unnecessary.

If there was still a vaccine shortage, the studies were there showing a real world benefit, and someone lived in Covid spike central ... self preservation then I would understand a little better.

But at this point in time? No harm but there's no reason from that level of freak out.

[NurseJackie]

66. Is there a scarcity of vaccine that I haven't heard about? You'd think it would be...

... in ALL the papers if we were having a shortage.

[moonscape]

72. I have cancer and currently on

bi-monthly maintenance chemo. I did have a good response to the vaccine but am self-debating whether to go for a third. Is there any harm in getting it if my immunity hasn’t waned much? Am mulling whether to go for it now or keep the option open after more time has passed.

Got Moderna initially. Would there be a best choice which mRNA to get for the 3rd?

I realize there aren’t definitive answers to this stuff, just noodlin’ ...

[LisaL]

85. CDC recommends getting the third shot of the same vaccine.

So if one had Moderna, the third shot should also be Moderna.

[moonscape]

89. Ah, thanks! n/t

[madville]

76. I've only had one shot of J&J

If I go get a "second" shot of the Pfizer or Moderna vaccine what would I be prosecuted for lol

[Shanti Shanti Shanti]

77. Hahaha, come and get me copper, I'm gonna hit the pharmacies on Mon, my 6 month coverage is up

They are dumping millions of doses which the filthy infected anti vaxxers won't take, fuck em

[ecstatic]

81. Lol

I don't think they should be prosecuted but I feel like they're similar to others in rejecting science (when convenient). As far as I know, there were not any tests showing that it was safe to receive a third dose. Of course, now the booster dose has been approved for a certain group of individuals.

[LisaL]

86. Why wouldn't it be safe to receive the third dose?

Israel already gave close to a million of third doses.
Side effects appear to be similar to that of a second dose.

[róisín_dubh]

90. I'll happily take a booster.

But I just recovered from Covid, so I’m low on the priority list I think. Once I can get one though, I’ll take it.

[cinematicdiversions]

91. Honestly I think it is a good idea

I am not in favor of deception but most of us could use a booster shot before the holidays.

[BannonsLiver]

92. I'll let you know how it goes.