I'm amazed at how many here now think the collapse of Afghanistan is terrible.

[brooklynite]

For years, the DU consensus was that having military IN Afghanistan was terrible, that we shouldn't have gone in at all, that the only reason we DID go was the "military-industrial complex", and we had no reason to stay.

It was obvious almost since the start that an American withdrawal would result in a return of the Taliban with all that implied. I can't imagine why anyone demanding that we leave wouldn't have accepted that reality.

[True Blue American]

1. We could have stayed there 50, years. They had no

Intention of fighting for themselves.

The King has already taken his ill gotten gains and got out!

[Hoyt]

2. Just politics. If trump had gotten close to total withdrawal, we'd be raising hell.

Realize the POS was going to withdraw, but he didn’t get to finish it (thank gawd he’s gone).

[Marius25]

8. Let's not get too excited yet. He may be back in 2024.

Right-wing media is going crazy blaming this collapse of Afghanistan on Biden, and Americans are dumb enough to think "oh, maybe we need a Republican again to fix things!"

[Devil Child]

3. Oh for fucks sake

I think it’s terrible the US military planners fucked up the withdrawal not that it was happening in the first place.

The pentagon has failed Biden.

[BeyondGeography]

11. They never wanted to leave

Forgive me for thinking they hung him out to dry.

[cinematicdiversions]

4. It is not the what it is the how.

Leaving hundreds of thousands of allies to a horrible death and endangering Americans as well is a poor choice.

[Polly Hennessey]

5. Don't think it took a

genius to see what was inevitable. The Afghan army is most likely corrupt. Again, as said before, if we stayed another fifty years the outcome would be the same.

The DUers now singing another tune are probably the same ones who swing with the wind.

[WarGamer]

6. Some people believe the US Military exists to make lives better Globally...

I don't believe that.

We are not and can not be the Global Morality Brigade and "Freedumb" Army.

[andym]

7. Poor planning is the problem

The US leaving Afghanistan helps close the book on an adventure that was not even appreciated by many in Afghanistan-- Karzai for example wanted the US out. BUT, the US withdrawal required careful preparation. It doesn't surprise me that Trump did little to nothing to prepare, it does surprise me that Joe Biden's administration seems to have been caught flat-footed, especially because of Joe Biden's foreign policy expertise.

At least there is no repeat of the fall of the Shah in Iran.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

9. The Reich-Wing has jumped out in front of this and is controlling the media narrative

As per usual.

Aside from the apparent poor planning and/or execution of the withdrawal itself, I'm equally frustrated with that aspect.

And if any Americans die because the Biden Admin failed in any remotely tangible way, it's going to be Benghazi all over again.

[BeyondGeography]

10. Biden's July 8 statements vs. reality are what's terrible

Don’t you know a political disaster when you see one?

[David__77]

12. I am glad about the withdrawal- Biden made right decision.

…

[CousinIT]

13. I was here in 2001 (different account name). I remember not wanting GWB to go there...

...but he insisted on retaliating for 9-11 -- and INSTEAD of attacking the damn countries where the 9-11 hijackers came from, he CHOSE to instead invade and attack Afghanistan. ZERO of the 9-11 terrorists came from there. NONE.

I remember thinking this was going to be a massive quagmire and that when/if it ever ended it would NOT end well.

I remember sentiment here about GWB bombing the shit out of a piss-poor country that had nothing and was under terrorist rule - because US wasn't about to go to war with Saudi Arabia WHERE MOST OF THE DAMN 9-11 TERRORISTS CAME FROM.

It was a dumb, chickenshit, ill-advised action and I remember GWB and his asshole VP Dick Cheney peddling that shit to the American People trying to convince that it was the right thing to do. IT WASN'T.

So - I expected it to end just as it has. It was a decades long money-wasting quagmire that accomplished nothing other than improving the lives of the poor Afghan people - especially women and girls TEMPORARILY. Now, they're slaves again.

What was the advantage - other than to the damn military industrial complex and the asshole politicians that built their political careers on the rhetoric and the donations?

It was a crock then. It has been a crock since. And it's a crock now. In addition to a massive humanitarian clusterfuck - which it was to start with.

Pfft.

(yep I've been on DU 20 years - I remember)

[Steelrolled]

19. You might remember that al-Qaeda, including OBL, were operating in Afghanistan.

Seems like that was a natural place to go to kill them.

[CousinIT]

22. I remember OBL was let go at least once when he could have been captured.

And he finally met his demise in Pakistan.

[dpibel]

27. There's a difference

Between "go to kill them" and "take over the country."

Even assuming the former is justified, that is not what the U.S. did.

The U.S. did the latter, for which it had no justification. Sure, there was make-weight argument about rescuing the Afghans from themselves. But it was cosmetic.

Heck, I'm old enough to remember that the Taliban offered to turn over Bin Laden if the U.S. produced proof that he was responsible for 9-11. Easy enough now to say, "But they would never follow through."

If you say that, you're saying what Dubya said at the time...

[DavidDvorkin]

14. Both things are true

We should not have been there in the first place, and what's happening now is terrible.

[stillcool]

15. I'm amazed as well...

so many people know exactly what is going on there...because? I guess it's more of that exceptionalism of Americans. Don't know what's going on in this country, but the Taliban and Afghanistan? No problem.

[Steelrolled]

16. You are right. It is now as clear as it can be

that the Taliban are the "natural" rulers of the country. We suppressed them for 20 years, but as soon as we left they are ruling again, with little opposition so far.

[superpatriotman]

17. What bothers me

is turning our backs on those who helped us while we were there.

[budkin]

18. What's terrible is the people being executed

Not the collapse.

[brush]

20. Yes. It was long past time to go. Bin Ladin was chased out decades...

ago has been dead.

[Johonny]

21. It IS terrible, but the last 1.5 years domestically haven't exactly been a garden of roses

I think I've run out of fucks to give toward Afghanistan.

[doc03]

23. Not blaming Biden but we were there 20 years

I bet they armed to the teeth with our discarded weapons now. Planes, helicopters, tanks and a military airbase

[roamer65]

24. Once Americans are out we should start destroying most of it.

[MFM008]

25. Just alot of bad PR

And bad pictures
And pummeling
Unable to change subject.

[FakeNoose]

26. We can't police the entire world

We can't force our political system on other countries, nor can we raise other countries' economies up to our level. This was futile from the start.

Why don't you ask Russia why they left Afghanistan?

[Elessar Zappa]

28. I'm fine with the withdrawal,

although I do think we should have evacuated our Afghan allies a few months back. I’m worried for them.

[edhopper]

29. You don't think the collapse is terrible?

And are aghast at what the Taliban will bring.
We can accept that our role there did not succeed and still feel awful for what is happening.

[Hortensis]

30. Vast, and imo insulting, oversimplification for many DUers.

There never was one reactionary DU consensus as you claim.

Those not handicapped by the cognitive and anti-intellectual dysfunctions of black-and-white ideologues, and mercifully that's most people, are capable of both educating themselves at least somewhat and of comprehending that situations are dynamic with many aspects and complexities to be considered.