Could we just put a cork in all the negativity? No one here "knows" how the American people will

[Atticus]

feel about the withdrawal from Afghanistan come November of '22, but that hasn't stopped several from predicting a widespread electoral defeat.

Currently, 77% of those polled actually approve of what President Biden is doing. Yes, that may change but those who are confidently predicting that it will may well be voicing a self-fulfilling prophesy. The mere fact that some of us who, as I said, are talking about how "Americans don't like being humiliated" without really knowing if humiliation is being felt may foster the assumption that there is something about which we should feel humiliated.

The Republicans criticizing our President for withdrawing now are the same ones who criticized him for NOT withdrawing on May 1st when Trump had agreed to leave Afghanistan. 5000 of the Taliban fighters now sweeping into power were released from prison pursuant to "the Great Negotiator's" deal with the Taliban. President Biden inherited an Afghanistan situation that had only two possible ways to proceed: invest more billions and more US military lives and "kick the can down the road" OR exit as Trump had promised to do. One alternative was bad; the other was worse.

I support his decision and urge others to do so. Blaming Joe for the failure of the Afghani army to fight and beginning to mourn our losses in '22 only helps the fascist bastards who are responsible for most of this 20 year long clusterfuck.

[JoanofArgh]

1. It's no surprise the Republicans are criticizing. No matter what he does they're going to take the

opposite tack plus it takes attention off pro-COVID red state Governors and all the deaths.

[RKP5637]

11. Exactly!!! n/t

[SergeStorms]

41. It's their GD war.

They started it, with absolutely no strategic goals in mind. Ostensibly it was to hunt down and kill UBL, but republicans took their eye off the ball there, and moved on to Iraq to settle an old Bush score. It's an illegal "war", never having received a U.N. charter. Along the way people ascribed all sorts of "noble" causes to our presence there, but there never was any measure of how our continued investment of military and monetary aid was doing. We've spent much more in Afghanistan than we did rebuilding Europe after WWII, and what has been the return on this investment?

Were we to stay there forever? Nation building certainly wasn't on the table. Were we to remain there until the Afghan military - all U.S. trained and equipped - could take over the perilous task of keeping Afghanistan free? As we can plainly see, after 20 years they were no closer to that goal than than they were on day one.

As Mike Malloy opined "Afghanistan is where empires go to die". Truer words have never been spoken. No invading or occupying army from Genghis Kahn forward has ever had success in taming or civilizing Afghanistan.

It was an illegal war, started and perpetrated by republicans, perpetuated by republicans and Democrats alike, a republican announced we were leaving - without objections by congressional republicans - but now everything is Joe Biden's fault? : eyes:

Give me a break. The Afghan people should control their own destiny, and from what I've seen in my 70-odd years of existence, they're doing just that.

[smirkymonkey]

83. +1000

[Farmer-Rick]

91. Seems the US empire did just that.

Afghanistan is where empires go to die.

We had a corrupt democracy of sorts when W attacked Afghanistan and now we have a corrupt oligarchy.

Staying there is doing nothing.

[certainot]

93. and by ignoring 1500 coordinated radio stations we will allow them to deflect and shift blame

like all issues republicans want to blame on democrats it usually works well enough to win them some elections

this is a very vulnerable advantage they enjoy - but there is no recognition or response from progressive groups or leadership

[agingdem]

2. the Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld non-plan?...bomb the country into submission

suck up their oil and then get out...a human disaster on so many levels...long past time to get out...

[cinematicdiversions]

5. Oil? Nt

[agingdem]

38. yes..lot and lots of oil...

remember Cheney was a Haliburton guy

[slightlv]

74. Afgh wasn't so much about oil as it was about minerals

This one wasn't played up as much as oil. But there are rare earth minerals in the mountains of Afgh... that's what they really wanted. Currently, these minerals are mainly in China, which gives them the tech edge over the U.S. The future of everything tech is related to these minerals. Unless we find an alternate source, we will always be behind China. I remember only 2 articles that came out about this at the time, and then the whole thing "disappeared" as if never uttered. Made me so mad at the time, because it explained so much, including the proxy wars.

That doesn't mean I think what we did was right, tho. This whole male-dominated idea of invading another country for their resources that we don't have or have enough of is ridiculous. That's what trade and the state departments are for. How much better if we had actually worked with Afghanistan to mine the minerals and give them fair trade? They're sitting on a literal gold mine, but they can't do it alone. Diplomacy would have been so much better; but that's not the Repugs long suit, is it? they have to make sure they "own" the resource for their friends... period.

These rare earth minerals are so rare and so important to technology, I'll be very happy when we can move past them into whatever the future will find to replace them. and I'm sure we'll come up with some way to do that. It's just not going to happen quickly. I detest the idea of mining and tearing down mountains; raping the earth and all the climate endangering stuff that goes along with it. I apologize for my putting sentences together. I have lupus brain right now... the words are there, they just won't come. I hate it went this happens! It's all a fog in my brain right now.

I don't particularly like this "global economy" but that's only because I don't like the way the R's and the PTB have it set up. Most of what we need is in third world countries. The R's believe in taking it. I believe in free and fair trade. That means, we deal with their workers AND ours in a fair way. That will never be the way as long as R's control trade and economy. They believe first and foremost in slave labor... period... for everyone. The world must get back to diplomacy as the first and last form for trade, or we will end up destroying ourselves AND our planet.

That said, Biden getting hit for bringing the guys home is a evil being done to him. His hands are tied. The deal was created, agreed upon, and signed by Trump without any input from the Afghan government people...only with the Taliban. If we had a decent press in this country, they would be excoriating Trump right now for putting Biden in this position. But Biden is THE "no drama" President; and that doesn't sell ads, does it?

I hate what will and is happening to the women under the Taliban. It's not fair, and I hope other countries will work behind the scenes, in front of the scenes, and underground to get women out of that country who want out. There are those who believe the way the Taliban believes, don't forget that aspect. But for every person screaming about the women in Afghan, will they also scream for the women in our own country??? Because it is here now and more are coming for our own women. What the Taliban are doing is exactly what this country's religious right wing wants to do to us. They already have many of us out of our jobs and back home doing homeschooling our kids because of Covid no-mask mandates; there have been several R critters saying women having the vote started the problems in this country; and they have already made us 2nd class citizens as far as bodily autonomy is concerned.

Who will scream for us? Women the world over... first world, third world, and every world in between are under attack. I weep for the girls in Afghan, especially those who had a taste of what could be for 20 years and now have it ripped away. I hate religious domination of any and all kinds. But cry for us all... and made the comparisons before we lose it all here in the U.S., too!

[panader0]

77. Cheney wanted a pipeline:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=15737603

[slightlv]

88. I don't dispute that

I'm just saying I remember other things that were even more important (at the time) than the oil of Afghan mountain areas. If Cheney/Rumsfeld/Bush had had their way, the entire quantity of Middle East Oil of every country would have been sucked up by American corporations, in particular. That they wanted an oil pipeline built is one of those things I go "well, imagine that" at. But my jaw dropped when I read about the rare earth minerals. And damn... I was reading DU only at the time, and not commenting (or even a member) when this happened. I want to think it was a foreign newspaper I read it in... like BBC or one of the Israeli online news outlets.

I may go hunting for it tomorrow when my meds get here. Tonight, I don't have headspace to do it properly, and typing is hurting my hands. If and when I find anything, I'll edit this message and the other one with the proper URL to the information. That's about the best I can do for now...

[wnylib]

97. Yup. And Enron in India had expectations

built on the success of that pipeline.

Both ventures failed.

[Budi]

8. Bush, Rumsfeld Cheney & HALIBURTON.

And Trump to seal the next corrupt deal

[FakeNoose]

15. The Afghans' only export is heroin

I don't think they have any oil. If it's there, nobody has had a chance to pump any of it yet.

[SergeStorms]

51. Wasn't the unspecified goal.....

an oil pipeline through Afghanistan? Big money to be siphoned off there, to be sure.

[Ligyron]

58. Their hashish is pretty good or was.

Been awhile since I’ve sampled any bubblegum black.

[burrowowl]

27. Not oil, rare earths!

Although really difficult to extract.

[GB_RN]

66. Yeah, TRILLIONS Of $$ In Rare Earth Metals

[lonely bird]

92. This!

The largest reserves of rare earths are in China. According to Statista the next largest reserves are in Vietnam, Brazil, Russia and India. Not exactly the friendliest of countries to our interests.

We have rare earths here which we do mine. That being said virtually ALL electronics require rare earths and our reliance on electronics is only going to keep increasing.

[Ohio Joe]

3. I view it as a right wing talking point - nt

[SunSeeker]

45. +1

[ansible]

4. This is going to be in the history books, no other way to spin it

It's absolutely demoralizing

[Budi]

6. If we all knew what President Biden knows...

Maybe Biden was given an ultimatum by China/Russia.
Get out by mid August, or go to war.

We don't know what Trump 'negotiated' with the enemy, that Biden is now tasked with upholding. What kind of consequences would China or Russia threaten with, should Biden reneg on an international private deal made by Trump.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

42. War with who?

[mcar]

7. The vast majority of Americans have no stake in Afghanistan

There may be some grumbling for a while, especially since the "liberal" media seems hell-bent on making this a failure only on Biden's part, but in the long run, COVID and the economy will be the big drivers in 2022.

[True Blue American]

16. Everyone else will forget it in a week. My kids say

“ Turn the News off!” My kids are right.

[jaxexpat]

19. " Turn the News off!" ..........wisdom from the mouths of children.

And people have found this exceptional since time immemorial.

[onetexan]

68. +1 K&R...next is VRA. Today's news will be tomorrow's byline.

[mcar]

86. I've kept it off this weekend

Not one of these pundits have any clue what should have happened.

[Escurumbele]

22. I don't think republicans are going to let this go that easily...these will go all the way to the

primaries.

republicans are going to have a field day with it. And...people only forget when the topic is never again mentioned, and I hope it will not, but I have a feeling it will not.

What Democrats need to do is counter attack and remind everyone this mess was republicans doing.

[True Blue American]

26. This is Trumps plan. Biden was

Sort of hamstrung by that.

Most Americans wanted out! You forget that?

[dianaredwing]

39. What are they going to do?

Any counter points point to their collusion with the black ops and anti-Afghan forces. They going to admit to all the money they made on the 'war'? Of course not. And they can hardly take the high road and claim to care about the women and children of Afghanistan. They don't even care about the women and children of America.

[mcar]

87. You are correct, but

if the MSM doesn't follow their script, they won't succeed. I'm not holding out a lot of hope about that - except that MSM has a "squirrel" mentality when it comes to "breaking news."

[paleotn]

60. I think you're 100% correct.

[bluewater]

9. It's not a plus.

Let's not kid ourselves.

[Atticus]

10. I'm not suggesting we "kid ourselves". I'm just asking that we not agree with the Dark Side

about what is happening and why. They are liars and they don't need our help.

[CentralMass]

12. It's a 40 year clusterfuck that started during the Reagan administration and our proxy war with the

Soviet Union during the Soviet Afghan War. As far as supporting or defending this decision . I have more of an is what it is opinion. I think that Taliban rule is going be brutal for the Afghan people particularly for women and girls. I also think the it will cause a geopolitics shift in the region and create other problems and future threats. As far as blame or reward, the buck stops with the administration in power.

[jaxexpat]

29. "the buck stops with the administration in power."

That's a more elusive concept than is seen on the surface. Am I the only one who feels that when Democrats are in power it's a " they can't meet the challenges" narrative and when the GOP has the power it's a "the problems are insurmountable" scenario?

[ThunderRoad]

44. The CIA covert program to support the Afghan rebels

began in July, 1979 at the direction of President Carter.

[pazzyanne]

13. Exactly! nt

[True Blue American]

14. Smile!

[BannonsLiver]

17. Most Americans have the attention span of gnats.

It’ll be background noise by week 3 of the NFL season. Maybe even by the Big Brother finale.

A year from now you couldn’t round up 10 people on the street with even basic, accurate recall of what happened if your life depended on it.

[Kaleva]

24. Yes.

[True Blue American]

28. Amen!

Biden will be a fine feller by then! He ended the war!

[Escurumbele]

18. Sure, lets just wait for the republicans to run with it, to make their base forget this was their

doing, this was the job of Bush/Cheney and when someone from the Democratic party says so they will remind everyone that Biden actually voted for it.

We have to face the facts, the withdrawal was not well planned, and regardless of what anyone from the Democratic party hopes, it will bite hard against the Democrats. I am not saying it will bite enough for Democrats to loose the house and the Senate, but it will make the fight much harder.

I am sure everyone agreed we had to pull out from there, but not by leaving the mess that is now in place. Lets hope the Taliban feel they have accomplished everything they wanted to accomplish, that they don't have ideas of "World Domination", although I don't doubt Putin is salivating to the thought of helping the Taliban with expansion plans in order to bring the USA back to the mess.

Whatever the republicans say today, they will change their tune tomorrow, so lets not put too much weight on what they said then and what they are saying now, because if they find the new rhetoric will help them politically they will continue which I predict they will, they have no shame and they will never admit to what they were saying a couple of months ago. Lets remember that republicans, just like many demagogues, dictators, etc. are excellent at propaganda, and this time they will have some valid points to work with, the fact that the withdrawal was not well planned.

[Kaleva]

23. Lurking over at FR, it appears many of the Freepers actually support the withdrawal

[True Blue American]

30. LOL

[Escurumbele]

40. I support the withdrawal, but I support a withdrawal that does not give the country to the Taliban

Not sure if you read my entire comment, but I never said I don't support the withdrawal, it is about doing it right, and in my opinion it was done too fast. People like the interpreters should have been evacuated immediately, and a force of a good size should have been left to allow all this to happen.

There was no easy way to withdraw, I understand that, but I don't think it was well planned, it has only taken the Taliban a month to take over the entire country, and I fear Biden and the Democrats are going to suffer a negative campaign from it. Democrats have to be ready to turn the tables against the republicans on this issue, it was their doing, it is Bush/Chaney legacy after all.

What is FR??? It is definitely not "Facebook", what is it? French Language in HTML?

[Kaleva]

85. FR is Free Republic. A mixed bag of somewhat normal Repubs and Magahats

[PortTack]

34. So what would have been a better withdrawal? They've had since May and now this.

They’ve had 20 years!!

It isn’t a valid point that the withdrawal was sudden or unplanned.

[ancianita]

20. K&R

[Kaleva]

21. IMO, the great majority of Americans couldn't locate Afghanistan on the map

[IronLionZion]

25. Republican governors have killed more Americans than the Taliban

COVID is the problem here in the US.

[Haggard Celine]

49. This.

[Jon King]

31. Right wing talking points are linking high crime, border issues, and this Afghan situation....

Of course no one knows what will happen in 2022 or 2024....but at least know what the enemy is doing. Right now the right wing talking points machine is saying Biden and Dems can't be trusted with your family's security or the world's security.

Like robots they are repeating, "high crime, border disaster, Afghan girls being tortured".

So that is what is going on and every Democrat running in 2022 and 2024 will have to be ready to answer that and have a counter for it.

[Escurumbele]

43. That is correct, and it doesn't matter if 75% of the USA citizens don't k now where Afghanistan is

You are 100% correct, the repercussions on the campaign will be felt, I just hope Democrats know hos to turn it around as they should because, in the fist place, the mess was created by republicans, not Democrats.

[PortTack]

32. Thank you...a voice of sanity..

[Corgigal]

33. It will give the media something to do for a week.

The average American clocked out of that war ten years ago.

I blame Bush, actually for not reading his intelligence briefing.

[FloridaBlues]

35. Have to agree no good solutions. Over the decades of blood and treasure poured into the sand

And into suitcases from US tax payers. Too many pundits dug up today on tv.

[Dreampuff]

36. As usual

Very well put, Atticus!

[Irish_Dem]

37. Most Americans don't seem to care about what is happening here in the US.

I seriously doubt they care at all about another country.

[crimycarny]

80. Exactly

As long as the economy is strong no one will care. Sadly we’re a spoiled, pampered nation who can’t even be “inconvenienced” to wear masks to protect our own.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

46. John Kennedy's approval rating climbed in the wake of the Bay of Pigs fiasco

Still depressing on so many levels.

[YoshidaYui]

47. Hello??

Last edited Sun Aug 15, 2021, 06:15 PM - Edit history (1)

The Republicans have screwed themselves..

[AlexSFCA]

48. it was the right thing to do. Biden demonstrated colossal leadership on this

It is not his responsibility to police the world using taxpayers money. RW will always spin whatever Biden does negatively, but in this case, quickly withdrawing from the foreign war, is exactly what trump supporters wanted. Of course, they will be brainwashed to think opposite. I believe with this bold move, Biden gained some electorate not lost.

[AlexSFCA]

50. it was the right thing to do. Biden demonstrated colossal leadership on this

It is not his responsibility to police the world using taxpayers money. RW will always spin whatever Biden does negatively, but in this case, quickly withdrawing from the foreign war, is exactly what trump supporters wanted. This is was one of the most popular moves supported by trumpers and progressives alike. Only neocons oppose it but they are no longer relevant and have no political power. I believe with this bold move, Biden gained some electorate not lost.

[PatrickforB]

52. Republicans would criticize Biden if he walked on water.

That is their power strategy - find something to criticize, pound on it 24/7/365, and then win the elections.

People are wising up, though, and few thinking people will be said we got out of the forever war. I have relatives who fought in it. None of them knew why they were there, but we sure did spend a lot of money, and we did NOTHING to help the Afghan government be less corrupt and more effective.

Plus, in the way back when when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan, we trained the Taliban and gave them the very best guns and rocket launchers. We did. Watch Charlie Wilson's War with Tom Hanks. That is a true story. Just when the Taliban won, they asked us for post-war assistance, like building schools and hospitals, but did we do it?

Nope.

See...this is what I mean by talking about policy. Policies work, and they do affect us. What would have happened for the women whose future we now lament if we would have helped them build schools and hospitals, upgrade infrastructure, and used that carrot to drive changes in the way the Taliban treat women, LGBTQ people and others.

But again, Nope.

There is some question with this culture about whether or not we can actually see beyond the end of our noses...

[mac56]

57. "Biden can't swim."

[NQAS]

53. First of all

Most Americans couldn’t local Afghanistan on amap.

Also,they are Muslims, about whom most Americans don’t care. Which is ironic because the platform for the evangelical right and the Taliban are identical.

[Sherman A1]

54. Thanks for the lecture

[BobTheSubgenius]

55. One is more or less FORCED to support the decision.

It's a very terrible position for JRB to be thrust into, but what choice is there? It's withdrawal now....5 years from now....50 years from now. And I SERIOUSLY doubt the calculus within Afghanistan would change; the Taliban seems to have some staying power.

A lot of them, or their forebears, either genetically or spiritually, were Mujaheddin in 1980. The Soviets threw a huge chunk of their very considerable war machine at them, and got chewed up.

Afghanistan hasn't been known as "the graveyard of empires" for nothing.


NB: Does anyone else find it ironic that the efforts of Charley Wilson, et al, to help the Muj. fight off the Soviets are partially responsible for what the US faces there today? Talk about your unintended consequences.

[Caliman73]

99. Story of US foreign policy, "unintended consequences"

Not sure how accurate the movie was, but once the Soviets withdrew, the budget was slashed from hundreds of millions to about a million or so, to rebuild from 9 years of crushing warfare against the Soviets, who were easily routing the Mujahedeen until we gave them Stinger missiles and Harlequin anti-aircraft guns.

What have we done militarily, since the Korean War, that actually lead to a positive outcome?

[BobTheSubgenius]

102. *sigh*

I cannot even begin to refute your point.

US foreign policy is a great mirror for the "Ugly American" tourist meme....or vice versa. Boorish and ignorant, dressed in awful golf-ish clothes as a person, and writ large as govt. policy.

Fortunately, I have run into very few in my lifetime, but I have also been fortunate enough to never work in a tourist-dependent job, or service industry of any kind.

[hamsterjill]

56. I trust Biden.

There is NO ONE more skilled in foreign policy.

But I want those interpreters and their families safe. Being an American should still mean honor, and honor dictates that these people not be left behind to be slaughtered.

[joetheman]

59. This too shall pass. Remember the Kurds?? The news cycle everywhere but FOX will focus

on this until the next meeting of the Select Committee. But FOX will use this forever because they have nothing else for the GOP to hang their hats on.

I feel so sad for the Afghanis who helped us and the women and girls who are left there. It was always a no win situation. As soon as Osama was captured and killed we should have been out and making deals forcing the Afghan military to defend their country themselves. I had to stop watching the coverage and started binging forensic files and Netflix.

[Fiendish Thingy]

62. I think Afghanistan will have minimal impact in 2022,

Voter suppression and gerrymandering will have a much more significant impact.

[usaf-vet]

63. IMO we could have stayed until HELL froze over and the only thing that would change.....

..... is fewer U.S. men and women will have died. And the Taliban would have started the march when hell itself was frozen.

Right decision President Biden!

[Xipe Totec]

64. Sunk Costs

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_cost

In economics and business decision-making, a sunk cost (also known as retrospective cost) is a cost that has already been incurred and cannot be recovered. Sunk costs are contrasted with prospective costs, which are future costs that may be avoided if action is taken.In other words, a sunk cost is a sum paid in the past that is no longer relevant to decisions about the future. Even though economists argue that sunk costs are no longer relevant to future rational decision-making, in everyday life, people often take previous expenditures in situations, such as repairing a car or house, into their future decisions regarding those properties.

And, I might add, getting out of wars.

Don't let the media use sunk costs to argue we should remain in Afghanistan.

[Kablooie]

65. It was going to happen sooner or later.

It was inevitable but any Republican would just keep pouring money into the sinkhole while Americans kept dying.

It lamentable that Biden has to do it but I agree it has to be done to stop more waste of lives and money.

[Hmongliberal]

67. The Lame GOP and their fascist supporters are

Just mad cause the Taliban had the balls to do what they failed to do on Jan 6. Bottom line.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

69. I suspect that experts and advisors knew Taliban would quickly take charge

Better now than next year. We knew that the trained Afghan army couldn't or wouldn't succeed. How the United front against the hostile takeover works together is where I'm putting my focus.

[videohead5]

70. If we had stayed

We would've had to send thousands of troops back in. 2,500 troops was not enough and the Taliban was not attacking us because they knew we were leaving. If we had decided to stay the Taliban would've started attacking our troops.

[Mr.Bill]

71. As far as I'm concerned,

Biden deserves the Nobel Peace Prize for this.

[GoodRaisin]

72. Thanks for your post. nt

[llashram]

73. 20 years

and out. No terrorist camps. We will see, I'm sure.

[secondwind]

75. Thank you for posting this!

[yaesu]

76. Pres Biden's approval rating even went up higher for me, this should have been done decades ago nt

[Evolve Dammit]

78. Agreed Atticus. This was no surprise to folks that knew how this would end (Richard Engle) and

others. It has been a news cycle shock though for those of us who don't know the real history, leaving many to wonder and ask lots of questions about how it was this bad to begin with, for so many years. Biden inherited a no-win. My big question is why the troops didn't stay until removal of personnel was complete (instead of having to recall more troops)?

[crimycarny]

79. Americans being the self-centered society that we are...

I’m not sure if the GOP will gain much traction. It’s all going to come down to the economy. If the economy is strong, people won’t give a damm what’s going on in Afghanistan. I mean, we can’t even get people to wear masks in a pandemic! Are those same people whiming about wearing a mask going to give a rat’s behind if Afghan falls to the Taliban as long as they (personally) are doing well? No.

[Peregrine Took]

81. I always wonder about people who want to shut down discussions on forums.

What's with that?

[MrModerate]

82. America needs to admit to itself that nationbuilding in the face of intense local resistance...

to that nation becoming legitimate will never succeed.

And maybe that nationbuilding itself doesn't work except in the most extraordinary circumstances or that nationbuilding can only be done by the nation itself.

In any case, what we've been doing for the last 20 years? That ain't it.

[smirkymonkey]

84. Thank YOU!

Also, honestly, I really think that the average American could give a crap about Afghanistan. Most people have bigger issues to worry about and Afghanistan is pretty low on the list. I really don't think it's going to be a deciding factor for many people.

[Texin]

89. So far the only folks who are most critical are military or former military.

There has long been (it was true about Vietnam surely) that to draw down and withdraw from conflict somehow implies that the men and women who died in armed conflict previously did so for nothing. Well, the fact is that when any nation goes to war as a political pretext does for some personal goal or an ill-conceived notion have the sacrifice of those who died on their heads. Extending conflict only kills more troops without good reason. Twenty years is a long time to be sacrificing men and women in combat with no good reason to have been there other than to try to "manage" the populace (or enrich themselves and their friends with spoils of their occupation and civilian contracts, i.e. Blackwater, Halliburton, et al.

[bucolic_frolic]

90. You know what Fox will say, and more traditional press will follow

I mean the policy was taking a beating on Morn Joe with Richard Haas, and I see on Twitter Peter Baker saying "history" will judge harshly.

So Biden's enemies will try to get the echo chamber going. People don't care, voters don't care about Afghanistan for the most part, it's the noise that can hurt us.

[seta1950]

94. Exactly

Thank you

[Wingus Dingus]

95. I agree. When has 'Murka ever given a shit about foreign policy?

They're not about to now.

[Bobstandard]

96. Tweet and FB to win messaging battle

We know the Rs will message their asses off making this Biden’s fault and a HUGE disaster for America—if we let them. Message and FB your followers that this was an inevitable disaster started by Bush and Cheney, made worse by Trump. As usual, Democrats are cleaning up the mess, like Obama did after the Bush economic meltdown and as Biden is doing now with Covid, the economy, and another damned, doomed to failure war.

Make calls to the local right wing talk shows. And for those of you of literary bent, letters to the editor and opinion pieces for local media.

[humbled_opinion]

98. The Afghani People

Falling off of that C-17 is a bad look, I am sure Repukes going to try and make the most out of that.

[soldierant]

100. Thank you, Atticus.

It's good to see some good sense posted.

I know people need to whine, everyone needs that sometimes. But it's starting to get to the point where i ammore afraid of our negativity than I am of Republican strategy..

The cartoon posted yesterday by Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin is, I think, right on the money:


And I also agree it's starting to feel like 2016 around here.

[Paladin]

101. Well said, Atticus. I couldn't agree with you more. (nt)