Did I cross a cultural barrier?

[mnmoderatedem]

Here is my situation.

I live in a townhome complex, right next door to a family from Afghanistan. The father was an interpreter during the war, damn lucky to be one of those to finish service early on, so he and his family were relocated to the U.S. some time ago. Damn lucky. And he has the shrapnel scars from an IED explosion to prove his service. Super nice guy, he and I converse pretty regularly.

Anyway, he and his wife have five little girls. Adorable children. Gradually I developed a fun rapport with these girls. They carry on like typical siblings, having fun with each other in their front yard, swinging from a homemade swing set from their front yard tree.

Thing is, I never see the mother or father interact with them in any sort of playful way. Earlier this evening when I got home, the girls sort of pleadingly asked me to play with them, pushing them from their tree swing, the kind of thing a father would typically do with his daughters. Though he is close with his daughters, I never see him doing things like that with them. I did that sort of thing with them for about a half hour earlier this evening and it was a lot of fun. Though they eventually wore me out (I'm old) and I told them I have to go inside, and we will play more later. It was the way they pleadingly asked me not to leave, to stay and play some more, which really got to me. Just seems like that type of thing they don't get to do with their own parents. In fact, their mother was in their front yard those whole time talking on her cell phone (the father works odd hours), and though I don't think she speaks English, from the way she was looking at me, and her body language, I get the feeling she disapproved of the way I was interacting with her kids, even though her kids were clearly having a lot of fun.

I know the kids are now going to intensify their request for me to keep carrying on with them in the same manner, now that I sort of set the expectation, though not really consciously so on my part; it just sort of evolved. The father never really witnessed this evolution between me and his kids, because as I said, he works odd hours at a local convenience store. These kids are so engaging and adorable; going to be hard to turn down their invitation to play on their makeshift swing set some more when they ask. They really are adorable, just not sure if I'm overstepping any boundaries here.

Any thoughts or suggestion here?

Thanks in advance.

[msongs]

1. they are probably highly stressed out these days nt

[Hugh_Lebowski]

2. Confirm with the father that he approves, since you're friends? (nt)

[elleng]

5. Yes, or at least that he does not disapprove;

may be somehow culture-related.

[lunatica]

3. If more people worried about other people's customs

there would be no more wars.

I have no idea if you did anything you shouldn’t have but I admire that you worry about it.

[2naSalit]

8. +1

[WhiskeyGrinder]

4. Talk to the parents about it, not us.

You could make an offer to come by a couple times a week for half an hour to give the parents a break. But def talk to him about it.

[Celerity]

18. +1

[mopinko]

6. how is the mom doing here, do you think?

when my kids were in school, we had a bunch of kids from the middle east, many refugees from pakistan and afghanistan. i was on a parent involvement committee, and boy.
the moms just werent comfortable interacting w others. i think esp those in western dress. when i would talk to them, like i would any other parent, they were clearly uncomfortable.
sounds like she is more comfortable than that, but it's hard to say what she is thinking.

i would just chat her up. i'm sure she will love hearing what you think of her girls.
but even if it makes mom a bit uncomfortable, this is so great for those girls. i had a neighbor who took an interest in me. i'm the 6th of 7, only 1 boy. it really made a difference to me.
she let me help her in her garden, and bought dilly bars by the dozen for when we all would visit. rly some of my fondest memories.

carry on.

[SheltieLover]

7. Not sure, but it could be a cultural thing

I worked for many years doing community based mental health care with very diverse populations.

My experience with the Middle Eastern cultures is quite limited, as I only had a few client families, none of which were from Afghanistan.

But there can be quite severe differences in the way people would interact with or rear their children in their home country & the way we raise kids here in the States.

Some cultures do not affectively interact much with their kids, sadly. I'm not saying this is the case, only that it might be a possibility.

I can give you an example from the many Hispanic families I've worked with who moved here from Mexico.

The parents were always upset that their teenage daughters wanted to spend time on the phone & in person having fun with their friends.

One mother expressed grave concern because her 13 year old daughter wanted to be with her friends instead of coming home from school & washing the (squeaky clean) floors.

Blew my mind, tbh.

I explained how kids interact in our culture & that it's normal for teens to spend time with friends. Didn't matter one bit to any of the parents. They expected their kids to behave the way the parents did in Mexico where they grew up.

There is a therapy modality to teach parents to affectively interact with their kids. The therapist sits behind a one-way mirror & the parent(s) wear an ear bud in a separate room while interacting with their child.

Not sure whether these folks would be open to such an idea.

So, if the parents discourage interaction with the kids, please don't take it personally. It might just be a cultural thing.

[JI7]

9. Not sure it's cultural barrier but sounds more like the parents are tired

Just becsuse you haven't seen them be playful with the kids doesn't mean they never care.

Also playing with parents is different from someone like you who they may just see as a play friend rather than parents who are more. Similar to how kids can get excited over some aunt or uncle .

Just say something like I would love to play but I have work to do.

[Tetrachloride]

10. I use what I call "the cow walk" and related personality

Don’t do anything at the apartment complex which is high energy or observant of the kids. Be innocuous.

The other day, some kids were playing near me. It was a warm evening. A flying toy dropped on my head. A short time later, a soccer ball hit me in the face. (Its a narrow crowded community area and accidents come with the territory , and not many people speak English. Most women wore traditional Middle Eastern clothing). In both cases, not a big deal at all and i made sure to smile and laugh it off. The mother and her friends were sitting nearby. (There’s more to that story.)

Talk low, talk slow, don’t say too much. ( stolen advice from days gone by).

Beginnings are delicate times.

[Ilsa]

11. The girls need peers to play with, too.

If they are in school, perhaps they could invite a friend over. It might help with assimilation, too.

[alphafemale]

12. How is it a cultural issue to not want an adult male playing with your daughters

Creep alarm bells ring.

I would have chased you away.

[Treefrog]

19. No kidding.

[Kali]

13. talk to the father

bring a small gift for the mother, but give it to him to give to her. explain in the US many older people play with their grandchildren and that you enjoy seeing his children (use gender neutral rather than daughters) playing and would like to interact with them as a grandfather would. ask if there would be a good time for that. perhaps help with schoolwork as well.

[jimfields33]

14. Definitely get permission

One of those kids gets hurt and who knows what will happen. Kids trip and fall constantly. You don’t want or need that type of attention.

[JackintheGreen]

15. Little of both, I'm sure

As some have said here, mom’s probably stresses and anxious right now.

But…

From a cultural perspective it is very uncommon and potentially unseemly for girls to be in the company of non-family males. Sure, these are little girls playing on swings, but culture runs deep. In Afghanistan and tribal areas of Pakistan women (including girls) are traditionally accompanied by family males outside the home. Groups of women move about together but would not be interacted with by strange males unless necessary (“hey, look out for that bus!”).

In larger cosmopolitan cities like Karachi and Islamabad, there is more interaction because there are more women and more families with experience with/in the west. But even there in lower income areas, in areas with Balochi or Pathan people (tribal groups), contact between men and unknown women, even just verbal, is highly constrained.

This is my perspective as an American who has lived in Pakistan for ten years. You’re friendly with the dad and he’s had lots of contact with Americans? (And I agree that maybe mom’s English is weaker). Ask him. Say you realized you may have accidentally offended their mom and you wanted to make sure you hadn’t offended. And apologize if he’s mad. But ultimately he’ll almost certainly understand the differences and know no harm was meant.

[7wo7rees]

16. This is what I would do.....

I would make a small fun package for little ones, bottles of bubbles to blow bubbles with, a package of street chalk to draw on sidewalk with, maybe a book or two. Crayons & coloring book.
For Mom, a bouquet of summer flowers, nothing expensive or spectacular, maybe even a plant.
And then, meet the father to give the gifts to.
Put your hands on your heart and say peace and smile.

Just what I would do......
Ms 7wo7rees

[Wounded Bear]

17. Sounds like you need to talk to the parents...

and given their culture especially the father.