The US didn't lose the war in Afghanistan, the Afghan government and people did

[Kyblue1]

We shouldn’t have been so deeply involved in the first place, at most we should have launched a targeted strike against Al Qaeda in response to the attack on 9/11. Once we went in to Afghanistan we got bogged down in Iraq which clearly was an illegal, unjustified war of Bush/Cheney.
I can’t understand all the hand wringing and blame casting over the fall of Afghanistan. What were we to do? We spent twenty years trying to establish a working government and a military that could defend itself. I feel bad for the people who will have to live under a Taliban regime, but enough is enough. No more American soldiers should die in that pitiful country.

[abqtommy]

1. Everybody loses a war. It's not healthy for children or other living things.

[Rustyeye77]

3. Wow...just wow

I can’t say how I feel about your post.

[no_hypocrisy]

2. I, too, rhetorically ask if there would have ever been a "good time" to leave.

[cinematicdiversions]

30. Right after we killed OBL would have been a good choice. NT

[Trueblue Texan]

4. Twenty years ago I was just a housewife in Texas...

...but I knew we'd see a pullout of Afghanistan that looks like it does today. It was a bad strategy from the beginning, doomed to failure. I applaud Joe Biden for finally ripping off the band-aid.

[Rustyeye77]

9. Rip the bandaid ?

Interesting analogy…. Maybe ripping something out.

[Cosmocat]

21. Y E P

All of us were terrorist loving scumbags when we were screaming about how this was going to turn out.

But, the Rs will N E V E R admit to being wrong about anything, and the country at large just can't get enough of happily letting the children bully us into one disaster after the next.

[Jon King]

5. I want to find out why the intelligence was so wrong.

Who has been giving the President such awful intelligence? Why did he think as of July 9th that "the Taliban's chances of ever taking over the country are minimal". Who decided on the timing and process for Visas for all the Afghan helpers based on this intelliigence?

These are questions that must be answered.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

11. I don't think it was bad intelligence; anyone paying attention could see the army wasn't stable.

I think it was denial and wishful thinking.

[mopinko]

27. the generals lied.

they're worse than cops.

[Historic NY]

32. Would you have thought a 300000 US trained forces would surrender on July 9th?

[atreides1]

36. Well

https://www.yahoo.com/news/afghan-officials-security-forces-reportedly-095250910.html

"some Afghan forces realized they would soon no longer be able to count on American air power and other crucial battlefield support and grew receptive to the Taliban's approaches,"

[dsp3000]

6. The way this is happening is a gift to the GOP and we will suffer.

I dont understand why people on this forum are so blind to this fact

[Vinca]

10. Because we can't care about Afghanistan more than the Afghanis.

300,000 Afghan fighters. 3,500 American troops. 75,000 Taliban fighters. Should our removal of 3,500 make a difference if that 300,000 want a free country???? Fuck the GOP if they try to use this politically. It was their lord and savior DJT who made the arrangements via Pompeo directly with the Taliban (excluding the official Afghan government). A confab and conference with the Taliban attending was planned at Camp David and it was supposed to end with a Nobel Prize winning ceremony. In the end, Trump was cowed by the generals and caved. What a surprise. I say good for Biden for having the balls to say "Enough."

[larwdem]

14. dam right

Biden had the balls to end this.

[littlemissmartypants]

38. Exactly. nt

[NH Ethylene]

16. Maybe Biden believes in doing what's right over being driven by political points n/t

[niyad]

28. Thank you.

[Lulu KC]

47. +1 n/t

[Sugarcoated]

49. Anecdotal observation

but amongst the people I know, and from what I read in the social media I follow, more folks seem to be happy about us leaving.

[rainy]

7. Afghan men failed Afghanistan!

Where are the men? What do they have to say about women and children and their rights and freedoms? They are the ones that have failed the country and until they believe women should be free women will not be free. End of discussion.

[Nexus2]

8. Tell that to Mika Brzezinski

She's really tearing to him this morning. A correspondent was just reporting on the events and she basically ignored the facts that pointed at what might have driven Biden's decsion aside from reckless stubbornness and ignoring his advisors to continue taking shots.

[justie18]

31. Question

Did she ignore the fact that Trump signed an agreement with the Taliban last year, to release Taliban prisoners and pledged all troops out of Afghanistan by May 1, 2021?

[snowybirdie]

43. I had to change

the channel this a.m. Poor Mika was almost in tears about all her friends in Afghanistan who will be arrested tomorrow. Come on! I'd bet the farm she knows no one there except NBC correspondents.

[Magoo48]

12. We lost this war the very day it started.

Last edited Mon Aug 16, 2021, 08:38 AM - Edit history (1)

In our time of grief and national anger, following an attack upon us, an attack precipitated by decades of meddling and exploitation in the Middle East, the MIC and its political dogs jumped at the opportunity to sell us down this inevitable dead end road.

Now, comes the spin, the blame, the denial, and the rewriting of history.
Then, comes the years of platitudes as we underserve our damaged warriors and their broken lives.

Finally, we ignore the lessons and forget until it all repeats.

[Scrivener7]

13. This. Twenty years, trillions of dollars, all the equipment they could use.

That wasn't enough.

We shouldn't have been there in the first place, but we certainly shouldn't be staying there because that wasn't enough.

[Treefrog]

15. This "withdrawal" is a debacle.

Someone has a lot to answer for.

[Cosmocat]

22. Dude

The withdraw could have been a year after we went in or 100 years after we went in.

The withdraw could have been done over 1 week or 10 years.

The withdraw could have been done anyone of a million ways and ...

It would have ended like this.

There is a reason W didn't end the mess he started, and 45 for all his big talk didn't fully pull the plug either.

As usual, Rs left a D to be the adult and suffer the consequences.

[greenjar_01]

23. Agreed

[mainer]

17. All those men trying to flee could have fought instead.

The Afghan army had more weapons and more soldiers than the Taliban. They just gave up and handed those weapons to the enemy.

[HariSeldon]

25. One big regret, for me

America should have insisted on many all-female platoons in the Afghani army. The men of the army have little to lose by deserting, but the women, intrinsically to the nature of the Taliban, have so much more to fight for.

[mopinko]

29. that would have been smart.

there are women warriors all over the middle east. i wonder who didnt think this was a good idea.
cuz i bet someone came up w it. it just got shot down.

[Historic NY]

34. But your supposing the Taliban was the enemy, the Taliban were religious Conservatives

they were Afghani's too.

[CrackityJones75]

42. They are my enemy I can tell you that!

A regime that treats women like that should be EVERYONE’S enemy.

[Historic NY]

45. There are other countries just like them

India, Pakistan, African Continent, Middle East, etc........even here.

[CrackityJones75]

46. Yep they are my enemy as well.

I just don’t think that we can take them all on militarily. That doesn’t work.

Only educating works. But that is damn near as difficult.

[sarge43]

18. Rhetorical question

When in the past 2000 years plus has foreign intervention in Afghanistan ever been successful?

Yeah, a few hung in there for at best four or five generations, but eventually they slung out or became Afghans.

Among other things, American Exceptionalism got us into this mess. "Everybody wants to be just us! USA!" No, they don't.

It is the doom of men that they forget.

[Voltaire2]

19. Um, uh, bullshit?

We lost this war 20 years ago when we decided that a punitive expedition against al qaeda bases ought to instead be a conquest and occupation mission.

[LittleGirl]

20. That is my opinion too!

Where was the plan to start this? Or end it?

Afghans needed to run their own country. They might as well close themselves off and try their own way.

[Aussie105]

24. Perhaps the locals see American boots on the ground as invaders?

Invaders wanting to impose their values on them?

With the 'invaders' gone, Afghanistan needs to develop it's own form of civilization.

We may not like the end product, but with the 'invaders' gone, and not providing a pretext for different tribes to band together to fight them, what next?

The Taliban have many values that we don't approve of. But maybe from the left behind mess, leadership may arise that can actually run the country effectively?

American soldiers fighting and dying on foreign soil for abstract ideological reasons was never a good idea. Solves little.

[snowybirdie]

44. YES!

So correct.

[Joinfortmill]

26. Amen.

[stewrat]

33. We lost when Trump agreed to leave if the Taliban stopped attacking our soldiers.

[Devil Child]

35. The United States lost the war in Afghanistan

No matter how you try to rationalize. Best to accept this unconditionally. Efforts to place the blame onto the Afghan people just helps fuel the belief “we will get it right next time.”

[Snackshack]

37. President Biden

Did the only thing he could do. “Surging” 25,-50,000 more troops was not an option, a commitment on generational timelines was not an option. Granted I don’t think President Biden anticipated same day Taliban action. I’m guessing that is not in the deal Trump made w/ the Taliban.

Certainly there are questions that need to be answered. I just hope it does not turn out to be a case of intentional sabatoge by officials held over from the previous admin but it would not surprise me after witnessing the actions of the GOP in regards to COVID and the resurgence happening right now.

[Texaswitchy]

41. That is what I am thinking

Hold overs making decisions.

[Lulu KC]

48. Call me slow

I hadn't considered that possibility.
Groaningly yours,

[DallasNE]

39. A Fresh Reminder On What Biden Inherited From Trump

Trump took a weak negotiating hand and made it worse by not keeping his mouth shut while the talks were going on. Talks that gave the Taliban instant credibility. Here is a long article on how not to do it.

https://www.npr.org/2021/03/04/973604904/trumps-deal-to-end-war-in-afghanistan-leaves-biden-with-a-terrible-situation?fbclid=IwAR3ZVYJfYKd2Uu1kZ-fkc_Kq-5VpaCK-ZxaVAZXEgUXKs38z4kOY8i60hbU

[usaf-vet]

40. This site with an audible 8 minute (Afghanistan: The lessons of history) recording is from 2011.

THIS IS A 2011 publication. So the points about withdrawal are now superfluous. But the lessons WE SHOULD have understood before invading are still important as we debate the withdrawal now underway.

As we have shown in Korea, Vietnam, and more recently in Iraq, America—and this is a good thing—will not use absolute military force. We fight a war with as much concern for the life of the enemy civilian as we do for the lives of our own troops. The rules of engagement that we have now in Afghanistan would simply have astounded Alexander the Great. In fact, he would have simply told us, “Nuke ‘em.”

Secondly, from the outset, we have wanted to establish a democracy in Afghanistan. American democracy is not a universal value. The Afghans do not want our democracy; they do not want our culture, which they see as filled with pornography and the refutation of all their religious and cultural values.

https://bigthink.com/learning-from-the-past/afghanistan-the-lessons-of-history