I'm going to have to disagree with the President on this one point...

[regnaD kciN]

...when he spoke of how impossible it was to "overcome centuries of history and permanently change and remake Afghanistan."

Unfortunately, he's wrong. In fact, we did "permanently change and remake Afghanistan." We did it under President Reagan, when we decided that the way to defeat the Soviets was to put together a guerrilla movement of radical Islamists, dedicated to the notion of imposing a strict form of sharia, as a counter to communism.

Before our actions, Afghanistan was a third-world Muslim country, but one that was largely headed toward modernization. When the monarchy was abolished by factions connected to the U.S.S.R., that move toward modernization continued. But Reagan and his advisors couldn't tolerate Afghanistan becoming a Soviet satellite, even if it were to develop into a state that gave a better life to its citizens, and thus they created, organized, and armed a movement devoted to the notion that Afghanistan should be a "traditional Muslim" country with laws and a culture straight out of the eighth century. We promoted that dream -- then looked on in horror when they actually carried it out following the collapse of the Soviet Union.

As the old saying goes, "When you're up to your ass in alligators, it's hard to remind yourself that your initial objective was to drain the swamp."

But this notion that, somehow, the U.S. blindly blundered into the "graveyard of empires," and befell what always befalls world powers there, is completely false. The fact is, we created the hell that Afghans are going to have to live through for the foreseeable future. Maybe we didn't mean to do so, but we did. So I don't think we have any moral grounds for, essentially, shrugging our shoulders and telling ourselves "What could we do? Afghans gonna Afghan." Sorry, but what we witness now is simply the Afghan people once again becoming collateral damage for our foreign policy choices forty years ago. And the least all of us can do is to admit that fact.

[leftstreet]

1. DURec

[WhiskeyGrinder]

2. K&R.

[Ninga]

3. Yes.

[ecstatic]

4. Interesting. Thanks. nt

[spanone]

5. ...

President Reagan meeting with Afghan Mujahideen in the White House to discuss Soviet invasion of Afghanistan




FEBRUARY 1983

[magicarpet]

10. Yes Reagan hated the Commies (Russians). Reagan gave full financial and military support to the,...

.... Mujaheddin Fighters to chase the Russian Commies out of Afghanistan. The Mujaheddin Fighters wanted a ninth century extreme fundamentalist Muslim/Radical Islamic theocracy for their new government. The Mujaheddin Fighters later teamed up with Osama bin Laden. The Mujaheddin Fighters then became more radical and transformed into the Taliban Fighters.

Afghan's current instability belongs at the doorstep of Reagan not Biden is very true.This is blow-back of Reagan's foreign policy to beat the Commies and chase them out of Afghanistan. Reagan empowered the extreme radical Muslims to do the job. Now the extreme Muslims financially supported and encouraged by Reagan - years later circled back again to bite America's ass once again.

Extreme radical Muslims do not resolve political or social problems but rather often create them. The same applies to extreme radical Christians. Just look what the damage the Moral Majority Faux-Christians did/are doing to America, and making our Democracy so dysfunctional with their notions of a radical biblical Christian Theocracy.

[yobrault1]

13. Where it all began...

Reagan. Who today would not even BE considered a Republican. Thanks to Newt Frick'n Gingrich the sloven piece of excrement. Worst Speaker ever only surpassed by worst Republican closely followed by MoscowMitch. IMHO

[dugog55]

14. A Tom Hanks movie

Charlie Wilson's war deals directly with this issue. The start of the war and the rise of the soon to be Taliban. And how the US screwed up at the end. Plus it is a very good movie. As usual, Tom Hanks delivers the goods.

[elleng]

6. Thanks, so whenever anyone mentions 20 years,

instead return to the 40 year facts.

[TreasonousBastard]

7. Correct, and even the premise of it being impossible...

to conquer is wrong. It has been conquered quite often. Alexander the Great, Genghis Kahn, Tamerlane... It was on the Silk Road and quite wealthy, so always under attack from someone.

Modern times made it a little more difficult with more mechanized wafare trying to move around, but certainly not undoable.

Hubris and lack of any real point to a war will get you every time. It got us in Nam, and here.

[John1956PA]

8. Agreed. In the 1980s, Reagan was too enthusiastic in providing missiles to the mujahideen.

From a 2014 article at https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2014/09/20/349549267/when-the-u-s-backs-rebels-it-doesnt-often-go-as-planned :

. . .

Afghanistan: This major CIA operation spanned the 1980s, as the Afghan rebels, or mujahideen, steadily chipped away at the occupying Soviet army. When the Soviets withdrew in 1989, it was considered a huge success and also seen as a factor in accelerating the Soviet Union's decline.

But then the U.S. and everyone else abandoned Afghanistan. The ensuing chaos among the well-armed rebel factions proved fertile ground for the eventual rise of the Taliban, which in turn played host to al-Qaida.

Now, more than 30 years after the CIA's initial intervention, the U.S. is withdrawing combat troops from a country that remains fragile and plagued with violence.

. . .

[Takket]

9. Raygun was one of the worst presidents in American history...

this...

Iran contra....

and nothing less than the systematic dismantling of the middle class

horrible president.

[Grumpy Old Guy]

11. Kick

[monkeyman1]

12. disagree ! TFG is got that title all to himself !! Presidential garbage! # 1!

[Cryptoad]

15. At Last ,,,,

a Prez with some brass Balls . Should have done it first day in office, my only objection,,,,,

[George II]

16. Bush made it worse. At the time of the planning for the first Gulf War, al Qaeda and bin Laden...

...were our allies, mostly due to our aid in Afghanistan.

But they warned Bush to NOT bivouac American soldiers, particularly women American soldiers, anywhere near sacred Islamic land in Saudi Arabia. Bush ignored him, and turned bin Laden against us.

It wouldn't surprise me if bin Laden attacked in 2001 because bush was President and it was his form of revenge against his father.

[crickets]

19. 👆 Timely reminder of the reason bin Laden hated the US so much in the first place.

This is the first and most important connection to Saudi Arabia that so many forget when discussing September 11.

[former9thward]

20. bin Laden declared war against the U.S. in 1996.

[dlk]

17. We may never overcome all of the long-lasting harm caused by Reagan & his henchmen

At home and abroad, Republicans are the party of death and destruction.

[dianaredwing]

18. I tend to 'forget' Raygun on purpose

But he was so totally destructive.

Unfortunately, he is not around to pay for his sins.

Who does have to pay for his sins then? Americans or Afghanis?

Modern global capitalism is simply an extension of colonialism (which was after all an economic effort). So, at some point, reasonable people such as President Biden have to step up and plug up the dike and some folks will drown. It is the way of the world and certainly the way of global capitalism.

I obviously don't have any answers, but I think there are many more questions that need to surface that Americans need to face. Our decisions and our lifestyle have imperiled the planet. We are not alone, but we are the first and biggest. Those poor Afghanis, even the rich ones, have only oil and natural resources to bargain in an increasingly cut-throat global marketplace.

They were used, abused, and shouldn't trust anyone at this point. I know I wouldn't.

As far as reverting to the fourth century or whatever, there is no way they can avoid modern trade and still feed those who remain. They will have to bargain something. Opium, oil, whatever. You trade what you've got.

[former9thward]

21. Carter started that program in July 1979.

Reagan continued it.

Although U.S. President Jimmy Carter’s focus was more on Iran during the months before the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, he initiated a covert program through the CIA to financially support the Afghan rebels, the mujahideen, in July 1979.

After the Soviet invasion in December 1979, which was a surprise to Carter, the CIA expanded the program, code-named Operation Cyclone, and began providing weapons along with money to the mujahideen through the Pakistani intelligence services.

Operation Cyclone was one of the longest and most expensive covert CIA operations ever undertaken. More than $20 billion in U.S. funds was funneled into the country to train and arm Afghan resistance groups.

The U.S.-built Stinger antiaircraft missile, supplied to the mujahideen in very large numbers beginning in 1986, struck a decisive blow to the Soviets.

https://courses.lumenlearning.com/suny-hccc-worldhistory2/chapter/the-united-states-and-the-mujahideen/